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Fail for top pick. Come back with a contender next year!

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:22 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
So you are going to trade out 29 yr old #1 C who makes 7M a year and is probably our next captain for a high draft pick...

Then you are going to throw a mountain of cash at 28? Yr old Perry to be our first line RW to play alongside 19 yr old Monohan? That would surely lure him away from his current situation...

You are right, an aging core isnt the best to move forward with but a combination of Spezza, Karlsson, Turris, Neil, Cowen, Smith, Methot, etc isnt an aging core...
Yes that's what I'm saying

Though I doubt Monahan is ready for 1st line duties next year. Not a fan of rushing prospects.

Trade Spezza for royalties

Sign Spezza 2.0 in free agency

This how we do it

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02-17-2013, 09:24 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Yes that's what I'm saying

Though I doubt Monahan is ready for 1st line duties next year. Not a fan of rushing prospects.

Trade Spezza for royalties

Sign Spezza 2.0 in free agency

This how we do it
There's never a #1 center in FA, I can't even think of the last time a #1 center changed teams through FA.

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02-17-2013, 09:24 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
That lineup was long term, not necessarily 2013-14.
So these moves would be spread out over a number of seasons? It certainly seemed to me that you were implying we make all these moves immediately/soon.

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Throw a mountain of cash at Corey Perry. 2011-12 Florida Panthers style.
And if he says no anyway? (likely since he'll have **** and green rookies to work with)

Jay Pandolfo for $3M?

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At any rate, I thought the cap floor only needed to be reached to be eligible for revenue sharing. ??
Among other things (competitive balance, job opportunities at fair wages) sure. But why is it smart business to disqualify ourselves (small market Ottawa) for revenue sharing?

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I'd trade Spezza for a top 2 pick in the draft (among other things)... You seem to think Spezza is more valuable than that, am I right? Why?
Whoa there chief. You mentioned nothing about what you'd be getting in return for Spezza. I won't deny that value may be there in the right situation.

However, I also think that pure value shouldn't dictate whether or not we trade our best offensive player and one the leaders of the team.

Spezza has already established himself as an extremly productive player in this league at a premium position, is in his prime and our offense is a limp dick without him. If all you have to counter that is 'X' I think we'll lose that deal, for sure in the short term and quite possibly in the long term as well if all we get back is a future (ie. a draft pick top 2 or not).

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02-17-2013, 09:26 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Yes that's what I'm saying

Though I doubt Monahan is ready for 1st line duties next year. Not a fan of rushing prospects.

Trade Spezza for royalties

Sign Spezza 2.0 in free agency

This how we do it
So when our new top prospect #1 C is ready for primetime... And Perry is 31, do you then ship him off for prospects? Hoping to contend in 2020? By then Turris, Cowen, Karlsson, etc will be getting old... Its a never ending circle..

Dont trade Spezza.

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02-17-2013, 09:28 AM
  #155
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It is quite simple, and what I fully expect Murray to do. Now he makes perhaps a depth move to improve the team with the massive influx of injuries... trades very little futures.. like mid round pick(s) to get a depth veteran forward and or defenceman. We play out the string until the deadline and if we somehow are still in contention we keep Gonchar for the balance of the season. If we are out of contention we trade Gonchar at the deadline.

Spezza, Anderson, Alfredsson, Neil, Phillips (wont waive NTC) are going no where. Bishop could be traded if someone wants him. Michalek is unlikely to be traded and if he is it will be for a valuable piece that is signed medium term.. or a RFA... not long term futures.

If we fail for a top 5 pick... it will be because we just could not win through all the injuries. That is a very possible outcome... but it won't be because the team further tried to fail by trading Anderson or something. If we are in the mix for a playoff spot or make the playoffs it will be because our youngsters like Zibby, Silfverberg, Wiercioch etc are playing awesome... which is good for us in the future anyway.

It is crazy to gut the team. Even thinking about trading Neil is nuts. Maclean LOVES him and uses him so effectively. Neil is the guts of this team and when Alfie is gone... he is the true vet leader of the team, regardless of who has the C. Ripping the heart out of the team because you have a couple of huge injuries to players that should be back and great next season is not a good move.

We will gut it out for the rest of the season... and we may fail or play decently... but we aren't going to make massive moves to get rid of vets. Only Gonchar because he is UFA... and only at the deadline.

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:30 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
There's never a #1 center in FA, I can't even think of the last time a #1 center changed teams through FA.
You know what I mean

Also, Brad Richards, among others

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02-17-2013, 09:44 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Quo View Post
So these moves would be spread out over a number of seasons? It certainly seemed to me that you were implying we make all these moves immediately/soon.
Sure, look into all them immediately.

Just because all those players are traded, it doesn't mean Mark Stone should be in the NHL if he's not ready. Or Ceci. Or Wikstrand obviously.

Bodies will be brought in to fill the holes, and hopefully roles. And no I don't mean trade for 35 year olds. That would be counter productive.

Florida Panthers style.

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Originally Posted by Quo View Post
And if he says no anyway? (likely since he'll have **** and green rookies to work with)

Jay Pandolfo for $3M?
If you think Karlsson ****, then I suggest you find a new team to follow.

If every single one of those players is traded, with the exception of Spezza, will Perry really say no because the team is ****? Doubt it.

Though I agree, Spezza may be a reason why he comes here or not. If Spezza can bring us Perry, let's keep him I think.


And there are much better UFAs than Pandolfo obviously.

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Originally Posted by Quo View Post
Among other things (competitive balance, job opportunities at fair wages) sure. But why is it smart business to disqualify ourselves (small market Ottawa) for revenue sharing?
Ottawa gets revenue sharing? Really?

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Originally Posted by Quo View Post
Whoa there chief. You mentioned nothing about what you'd be getting in return for Spezza. I won't deny that value may be there in the right situation.

However, I also think that pure value shouldn't dictate whether or not we trade our best offensive player and one the leaders of the team.

Spezza has already established himself as an extremly productive player in this league at a premium position, is in his prime and our offense is a limp dick without him. If all you have to counter that is 'X' I think we'll lose that deal, for sure in the short term and quite possibly in the long term as well if all we get back is a future (ie. a draft pick top 2 or not).
?

Spezza isn't that good. He's a #1 centre that isn't elite.

I'd trade him for Drouin and MacKinnon for sure. Possibly for the other 3-4 top offensive guys in the draft too.


The long term gain of such players exceeds Spezza's short term value.

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02-17-2013, 09:47 AM
  #158
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Why do people respond to Mandy about Spezza anymore? It has really gotten to a level of ridiculousness that is bordering on obsession. Spezza is going nowhere. You will never get a return that is as valuable as he is, and even if we were to get a top 2 draft pick you only pray that someday that pick becomes close to as good as Spezza is now. You're talking about a top 5 - 10 centre in the league with top 5 - 10 offensive capabilities in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Spezza isn't that good. He's a #1 centre that isn't elite.

I'd trade him for Drouin and MacKinnon for sure. Possibly for the other 3-4 top offensive guys in the draft too.


The long term gain of such players exceeds Spezza's short term value.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh god.

I guess scoring in the top 4 of the league and getting 6th in Hart voting while having a career with over a PPG and being one of the top 5 producers since the lockout doesn't make Spezza elite. Oh well. Let's ship out that bum.

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02-17-2013, 09:50 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
So when our new top prospect #1 C is ready for primetime... And Perry is 31, do you then ship him off for prospects? Hoping to contend in 2020? By then Turris, Cowen, Karlsson, etc will be getting old... Its a never ending circle..

Dont trade Spezza.
sigh


It ends when the team is actually a contender. Legit top 5 cup contender, then you're obviously not trading off your top 6 forwards.

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02-17-2013, 09:51 AM
  #160
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We can sign Brad Richards in the off-season, but we already have O'Brien.

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02-17-2013, 09:55 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Why do people respond to Mandy about Spezza anymore? It has really gotten to a level of ridiculousness that is bordering on obsession. Spezza is going nowhere. You will never get a return that is as valuable as he is, and even if we were to get a top 2 draft pick you only pray that someday that pick becomes close to as good as Spezza is now. You're talking about a top 5 - 10 centre in the league with top 5 - 10 offensive capabilities in the league.



Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh god.

I guess scoring in the top 4 of the league and getting 6th in Hart voting while having a career with over a PPG and being one of the top 5 producers since the lockout doesn't make Spezza elite. Oh well. Let's ship out that bum.
Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Giroux
Kopitar
Datsyuk
Tavares
Zetterberg
Elias
Staal
Thornton
Staal
Toews
Getzlaf
Benn
Sedin



An argument could be made that all these guys are better centres than Spezza, and quite a few of them are clear cut better than he is

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:58 AM
  #162
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I would not trade the following..

Spezza
Turris
Karlsson
Silf
Lehner
Cowen
Alfie
1st round pick

All others i would listen too offers..Yes even Anderson and Zibby..
Now you dont give them away but if you can get a ROR or a signed Perry then you do it..

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:01 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Trade Spezza (probably in the off-season)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
I would not trade the following..

Spezza
Agree with CarknerCountry.

Getzlaf will be available this off-season, but he'll either stay with the Ducks or sign with the Rangers.

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:05 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Agree with CarknerCountry.

Getzlaf will be available this off-season, but he'll either stay with the Ducks or sign with the Rangers.
Regardless of what happens with Getzlaf, it depends on the return for Spezza



Blue chip prospect (1st line potential)
Young top 6 forward


That would be very hard to say no to. Regardless of Getzlaf or Perry potentially signing here to offset Spezza's salary and role.

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02-17-2013, 10:07 AM
  #165
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This team healthy was notably better than last year. Karlsson's development alone changed things for the better.

But I agree, play the cards you're dealt. But Alfies retirement isn't a foregone conclusion. This team probably goes back into temporary rebuild mentality.
Alfie is 40 years old, and in the last year of his contract.

He also hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire. I'd say that his retirement is very close. NHL after 40 just doesn't happen that often.

The reality is that Alfredsson is wasting what time he does have left in this league on this team. Maybe we could have taken one last shot at it this year if everything had worked out, but it's obviously time for "plan B"

He's a UFA. We can bring him back next year if he wants to play.

I don't see the downside of moving him.

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:13 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
t depends on the return for Spezza
We aren't trading our next Captain for the next decade. Not sure why you bother.

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02-17-2013, 10:17 AM
  #167
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Wow, guys we're injured, these guys aren't dead. There's no need to get rid of Spezza, Alfie or Anderson.

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02-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Regardless of what happens with Getzlaf, it depends on the return for Spezza



Blue chip prospect (1st line potential)
Young top 6 forward


That would be very hard to say no to. Regardless of Getzlaf or Perry potentially signing here to offset Spezza's salary and role.

Spezza,Turris,Karlsson,Cowen,Silf,Lehner,Methot are and will be our core going forward..You add to that not subtract..

The way the season is going we may still get a top 5 pick actually i expect it...Its why you dont trade that pick..

Players like Anderson,Michalek,Zibby,Niel and other prospects i would listen to offers to add to the core..If we can get a young ROR or a Perry you do it...

Phillips and Alfie its there call they gave alot too this organization you can even say the same for Niel..

Gonch and Bishop i expect too be traded at the deadline

Regin,Lats,O'Brien,Condra,Lundin,Benoit,greening are in my eyes blah are a dime a dozen replaceable really..

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02-17-2013, 10:22 AM
  #169
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Trade Spezza? Truly unbelievable, are you guys watching this team right now? Do you see the current problem haha? Do you know he is 29 years old?

I cant believe I am reading this.

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02-17-2013, 10:23 AM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
We aren't trading our next Captain for the next decade. Not sure why you bother.
No way should he be the captain

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
Spezza,Turris,Karlsson,Cowen,Silf,Lehner,Methot are and will be our core going forward..You add to that not subtract..

The way the season is going we may still get a top 5 pick actually i expect it...Its why you dont trade that pick..

Players like Anderson,Michalek,Zibby,Niel and other prospects i would listen to offers to add to the core..If we can get a young ROR or a Perry you do it...

Phillips and Alfie its there call they gave alot too this organization you can even say the same for Niel..

Gonch and Bishop i expect too be traded at the deadline

Regin,Lats,O'Brien,Condra,Lundin,Benoit,greening are in my eyes blah are a dime a dozen replaceable really..
I disagree with the core

should be

Karlsson, Cowen, Turris, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Lehner

and other young players potentially working their way in there

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02-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
No way should he be the captain



I disagree with the core

should be

Karlsson, Cowen, Turris, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Lehner

and other young players potentially working their way in there
LOL no team would have such a young core like that you need balance of vets and young ones..

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02-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #172
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LOL no team would have such a young core like that you need balance of vets and young ones..
Karlsson is a 4 year vet with a Norris Trophy. In 3 years time when the Sens are ready to comepte, he'll be a 7 year vet.

It's a young man's game, and that's enough experience.

Turris and Cowen will be experienced leaders.

Condra, Smith, not mention there will be other veterans such as Neil or free agents.

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02-17-2013, 10:31 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Karlsson is a 4 year vet with a Norris Trophy. In 3 years time when the Sens are ready to comepte, he'll be a 7 year vet.

It's a young man's game, and that's enough experience.

Turris and Cowen will be experienced leaders.

Condra, Smith, not mention there will be other veterans such as Neil or free agents.
Thats just wrong...

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02-17-2013, 10:33 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Ottawa gets revenue sharing? Really?
We may need it sooner than you think if Murray guts the team like you suggest. I don't know the ins and outs of it, true, but I know of no team currently that has made being below the cap floor a reality. I'll assume that's for a legitimate punitive reason or from a simple desire not to suck.

I see zero sense in shipping out our decent players (Methot, Michalek, Anderson) to replace them with rookies and maybe some unknown free agents. Kinda pointless and dangerous to consider now when we don't know who's available.

Obviously, I know Karlsson is not ****. I'm talking specifically about the forward core when I say Perry will have **** to work with.

I do think Spezza is that good. Moreover, he's got the numbers and leaguewide recognition to prove it. Can't see that argument going anywhere.

I just don't like your ideas here man. You're thinking big. Recklessly big.

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02-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #175
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We may need it sooner than you think if Murray guts the team like you suggest. I don't know the ins and outs of it, true, but I know of no team currently that has made being below the cap floor a reality. I'll assume that's for a legitimate punitive reason or from a simple desire not to suck.

I see zero sense in shipping out our decent players (Methot, Michalek, Anderson) to replace them with rookies and maybe some unknown free agents. Kinda pointless and dangerous to consider now when we don't know who's available.

Obviously, I know Karlsson is not ****. I'm talking specifically about the forward core when I say Perry will have **** to work with.

I do think Spezza is that good. Moreover, he's got the numbers and leaguewide recognition to prove it. Can't see that argument going anywhere.

I just don't like your ideas here man. You're thinking big. Recklessly big.
true and I don't know if I'd have the guts to do it.

Would be interesting to see what would happen with this nonetheless

It's risky. But with the amount and the quality of young players, some are bound to develop and this lack of scoring we're seeing won't be there long.


That said, what I've wanted for a while is 1 good young forward. With the Spezza injury (and Karlsson), trading Spezza might not be necessary to accomplish that. The team will suck this year (best year to do it), and hopefully will end up with a top 3 pick.

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