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Do you fire Laviolette? (Philadelphia Daily News article dated March 12, 2013)

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Old
02-17-2013, 03:04 AM
  #501
Krishna
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We should hire Coatsey as the next coach

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02-17-2013, 03:19 AM
  #502
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I think it is hilarious that some of you think that the team will win more this season with a new coach.

They are not making the playoffs regardless. I'm just glad it is in a shortened season and hopefully that adversity inspires the front office/players.

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02-17-2013, 03:42 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by skoods View Post
I think it is hilarious that some of you think that the team will win more this season with a new coach.

They are not making the playoffs regardless. I'm just glad it is in a shortened season and hopefully that adversity inspires the front office/players.
It actually happens all the time in sport. The sheer action of getting a new coach in often works wonders for morale and desire and the team goes on a winning run. It's not that hilarious a concept at all.

Depending on who they replace him with, I'd be up for the switch now. Even if we don't win now, we'd be 3 months further ahead on the change-around than if we did it in the summer.

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02-17-2013, 03:45 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
So much for Laviolette's attack attack attack.....

Team is "going through the motions" doesn't bode well for him at all.....

BTW..the fact that the Flyers have to SIGN shlubs like Gervais, Foster, and Lilja shows how putrid our farm system is.....
Gervais is fine. I don't know why people keep adding him to this list. He's certainly not deserving to be on a list with Foster and Lilja.

Could you name me some teams that don't have players like Lolja and Foster as 7/8 defensemen though? If they didn't suck, they would be a bit higher.

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02-17-2013, 04:01 AM
  #505
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I really don't think a coach will suddenly turn things around. Further, the end result may just be a worse draft pick.

Having said that, bringing in Tocchet as coach and Hextall as GM would give me a bit of nostalgia. Two of my favorite Flyers ever.

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02-17-2013, 06:54 AM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
It actually happens all the time in sport. The sheer action of getting a new coach in often works wonders for morale and desire and the team goes on a winning run. It's not that hilarious a concept at all.

Depending on who they replace him with, I'd be up for the switch now. Even if we don't win now, we'd be 3 months further ahead on the change-around than if we did it in the summer.
Yep. If season is lost, getting a new coach now will allow the team and a coach to gel for a few months before 2013-14 season.

The problem is who is out there to replace Lavi.

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02-17-2013, 07:04 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Well Holmgren went all in on getting Suter,Parise and Weber. By the time it was evident that he had struckout on all 3 we were left with signing Fedotenko and Gervais. Holmgren didnt have a great offseason. Does that make him a horrible GM? No, but he didnt give Lavy the personel to run his system effectively. Everyone was banking on Couturier, Schenn and Read to pick up the scoring slack lost by Jagr leaving and JVR getting traded. All 3 of those players were given bigger roles this season and for the most part all 3 have come up small.
Of course we know why Gervais, Foster and Lilja were brought in, We all know why. But that is a sensitive subject that with some people the reasoning hasnt sunk in yet.
If Homer landed any of those guys everyone would be talking about how good of a GM he is but he didn't. That happens, so he went out and signed solid depth guys/role players like Rusty and Gervais. Ask rangers fans about Fed, when used properly he's still an effective player and Gervais hasn't been good but let's be honest we've had much worse on this team (Randy Jones to name one) so i really don't see them for being 6-9-1. And again when the team is fully healthy these guys are getting limited ice time/roles or don't play at all (Gervais). So injuries, like with every other team in the league, has forced the team to use guys they normally wouldn't or in situations they normally wouldn't. Lavy doesn't have the guys to run his system effectively, thats true, well then change he needs to change to accommodate the players he does have. no team in the league would be ok with a guy who runs his system one way and only one way regardless of personnel/injuries that may occur. my point is the flyers still have plenty of quality players, there is no reason they should only have 6 wins in 16 games. i mean look at the devils for gods sake, they have two solid scoring lines (the flyers have the personnel for this as well) followed by two role playing lines (again no difference), a d-core with no #1 (when fully healthy the flyers have the better defense on paper imo) and a solid goalie (same deal). so at the end of the day the flyers i think have the better line-up when healthy and comparable with some injuries yet one team is atop the eastern conference standings and the other is a few spots away from dead last with 1 more game played.

the young core under performing is hardly the problem. Read is on pace for a 51pt season, Voracek 56 pts, Schenn 60pts, Simmonds 50 pts, Couturier 30pts (these numbers are all prorated). I'm not sure you could expect much more out of those guys with the exception of Couts (which is unrealistic imo). i don't know how that is coming up small. The real problem is Giroux, who is on pace for 51pts and Briere, the 6.5 million dollar man, for just 34pts. You look to those guys to be the leaders as the team vets since hartnell is out and you know one is the team captain and the other wears an A/is a former captain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSKA1974 View Post
Yep. If season is lost, getting a new coach now will allow the team and a coach to gel for a few months before 2013-14 season.

The problem is who is out there to replace Lavi.
Yes, totally agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I really don't think a coach will suddenly turn things around. Further, the end result may just be a worse draft pick.

Having said that, bringing in Tocchet as coach and Hextall as GM would give me a bit of nostalgia. Two of my favorite Flyers ever.
have you been reading my posts

seriously though i would like to see him get a crack at it. he was ok with the lightning and was in a similar situation personnel wise. if he were coach i can all but guarantee there wouldn't be any more shift off or non 60-minute efforts.

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02-17-2013, 07:16 AM
  #508
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Ugh Tocchet. I want someone that has never been subjected to the nonsense concept that is 'Flyers hockey'. Go get a coach that has been winning in Switzerland or something before 'staying in the family'. The Flyers way is a losing way.

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02-17-2013, 08:05 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by OzFlyer View Post
They weren't performing when he WAS in the lineup. This team is made up of Phantoms, Old Guys and maybe 4-5 players with a great future.

They need to figure out how to fill the holes on this team. Maybe Homer is just lazy going after the big fish all the time instead of working out the 4-5 positions we need filled instead of the big signing?
say what you want but this team has:
4 forwards and 2 D-men that were top 10 picks
has another 3 1st rounders and 3 2nd rounders on F and D
Goalies were 1st and 2nd rounders
14 roster spots filled with higher picks. That is more than 2 full lines. This team should be better.

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02-17-2013, 08:06 AM
  #510
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A better option for a coach will be available in the off season, when contracts are up and people are available

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02-17-2013, 08:10 AM
  #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
It actually happens all the time in sport. The sheer action of getting a new coach in often works wonders for morale and desire and the team goes on a winning run. It's not that hilarious a concept at all.

Depending on who they replace him with, I'd be up for the switch now. Even if we don't win now, we'd be 3 months further ahead on the change-around than if we did it in the summer.
Not if it means having a chance at Jones vs picking 10th overall. THAT would be a big difference.

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02-17-2013, 10:45 AM
  #512
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I figured he'd be gone by the time I woke up in the morning.

weird.

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02-17-2013, 10:52 AM
  #513
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A new coach isn't going to mature the young core or get the impact players needed on the blue line.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
say what you want but this team has:
4 forwards and 2 D-men that were top 10 picks
has another 3 1st rounders and 3 2nd rounders on F and D
Goalies were 1st and 2nd rounders
14 roster spots filled with higher picks. That is more than 2 full lines. This team should be better.
Talk about insightful.

Here's one to think about:

Claude Giroux (24) -> Simon Gagne (26)
Daniel Briere (34) -> Peter Forsberg (33)
Mike Knuble (40) -> Mike Knuble (34)
Sean Couturier (19) -> Jeff Carter (20)
Brayden Schenn (21) -> Mike Richards (21)
Wayne Simmonds (24) -> RJ Umberger (24)
Matt Read (26) -> Geoff Sanderson (34)
Maxime Talbot (28) -> Sami Kapanen (33)
Ruslan Fedotenko (33) -> Petr Nedved (34)
Tye McGinn (22) -> Scottie Upshall (22)
Zac Rinaldo (22) -> Ben Eager (22)
Tom Sestito (24) -> Todd Fedoruk (27)
IR-Scott Hartnell (30) -> Kyle Calder (27) (Hartnell injured is still a better player )

Kimmo Timonen (37) -> Joni Pitkanen (22)
Luke Schenn (22) -> Mike Rathje (32)
Braydon Coburn (27) -> Braydon Coburn (21)
Nicklas Grossmann (28) -> Derian Hatcher (34)
Bruno Gervais (27) -> Randy Jones (25)
Kurtis Foster (30) -> Alexandre Picard (21)
Andreas Lilja (37) -> Alexei Zhitnik (33)
IR-Andrej Meszaros (26) -> xxx
xxx -> Denis Gauthier (29)
xxx -> Freddy Meyer (25)

Ilya Bryzgalov (32) -> Antero Niittymaki (26)
Brian Boucher (35) -> Robert Esche (28)
Michael Leighton (25) -> Michael Leighton (31)

Peter Laviolette -> Ken Hitchcock / John Stevens

We have nearly an identical team to what we had in '07 when the Flyers made history in all the wrong ways. The only real difference is some areas are better (defense and goaltending), some areas are worse (forwards), and the guy behind the bench, which should tell us if we fire the coach there is a very real possibility of getting worse.

And if you honestly think that's a good thing, I'd like to remind everyone that the draft lottery... not a sure thing. The year the Flyers landed JVR was the year the NHL gave us the absolute best statistical chance of winning the first overall. The rules have changed since then. Now, we're going to be competing for the first overall with every other club that misses the playoffs.

If this team's to get better, we need to find another Chris Pronger. We need Giroux to be healthy. We need Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, Tye McGinn, Scott Laughton, and Nick Cousins to inject some fresh blood into the finished product which will take time, but it'll happen. They just need the maturity that comes with age.

I think the best thing for this club would be to move Briere/Forsberg and Timonen/Pitkanen to help get some extra assets in order to speed up the process because they're not going to be around too much longer. Send Briere to a club that can use the help int he post-season (St. Louis). Give Kimmo the same option. God knows they'd love the opportunity to chase the Cup one last time. And if it looks like St. Louis might have a hard time working the cap, use an amnesty buy-out to dump Briere's cap-hit.


Last edited by Clown Baby: 02-17-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 11:31 AM
  #515
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I was speaking with one of my scout friends last night after the game (got a call from him in Montreal) and he said that Holmgren was in the press box and was fuming last night. Holmgren was overheard talking about how sloppy the on ice product was and how players looked lethargic and uninspired. My scout friend had also mentioned that Holmgren and Giroux were having a talk about last night's game and Giroux looked visibly upset and was rather animated in his conversation with Holmgren.

Once again, I know that this is hearsay, but this guy I trust. He broke the Carter trade about 10 days before it was to happen and that he also reported the day before the Richards trade that Holmgren and Lombardi were talking about a trade. So, take it for what it is, but it looks like nobody is happy with what's happening right now.

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02-17-2013, 11:41 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I was speaking with one of my scout friends last night after the game (got a call from him in Montreal) and he said that Holmgren was in the press box and was fuming last night. Holmgren was overheard talking about how sloppy the on ice product was and how players looked lethargic and uninspired. My scout friend had also mentioned that Holmgren and Giroux were having a talk about last night's game and Giroux looked visibly upset and was rather animated in his conversation with Holmgren.

Once again, I know that this is hearsay, but this guy I trust. He broke the Carter trade about 10 days before it was to happen and that he also reported the day before the Richards trade that Holmgren and Lombardi were talking about a trade. So, take it for what it is, but it looks like nobody is happy with what's happening right now.
Holmgren should be grateful that signing a 38-year old Jagr fresh out of the KHL didn't blow up in his ****ing face, given the risk involved. And that Hartnell, Giroux, Simmonds, and Talbot all had career years just out of the blue like that. And that Couturier and Read turned out to be the studs they were for this club when two years ago they were on literally no one's radar. I swear on Christ's bloody cross, if that idiot trades Giroux the same way he traded Gagne, Richards, Carter, etc. there's nothing that'll save his job because this mess... this has his finger prints all over it, and no one else's. Everyone is doing the most they can with what they can (which isn't that much).

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02-17-2013, 11:42 AM
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I was speaking with one of my scout friends last night after the game (got a call from him in Montreal) and he said that Holmgren was in the press box and was fuming last night. Holmgren was overheard talking about how sloppy the on ice product was and how players looked lethargic and uninspired. My scout friend had also mentioned that Holmgren and Giroux were having a talk about last night's game and Giroux looked visibly upset and was rather animated in his conversation with Holmgren.

Once again, I know that this is hearsay, but this guy I trust. He broke the Carter trade about 10 days before it was to happen and that he also reported the day before the Richards trade that Holmgren and Lombardi were talking about a trade. So, take it for what it is, but it looks like nobody is happy with what's happening right now.
Drama

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02-17-2013, 11:43 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Holmgren should be grateful that signing a 38-year old Jagr fresh out of the KHL didn't blow up in his ****ing face, given the risk involved. And that Hartnell, Giroux, Simmonds, and Talbot all had career years just out of the blue like that. And that Couturier and Read turned out to be the studs they were for this club when two years ago they were on literally no one's radar. I swear on Christ's bloody cross, if that idiot trades Giroux the same way he traded Gagne, Richards, Carter, etc. there's nothing that'll save his job because this mess... this has his finger prints all over it, and no one else's.
Haha how'd you get that Homer will trade Giroux out of that?

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02-17-2013, 11:51 AM
  #519
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It all started before the beginning of the season when they reportedly put Lavi on a short leash, installing Paddock as the eye in the sky, and asked for them to play tighter defense which first sounded reasonable but somehow it has destroid the identy of the team.

Lavi's system - if we call it a "system" - is no longer in place, the players are lacking an "identy" and don't seem to know what is expected from them. They focus on defense and lose despite allowing fewer goals, Bryz plays well and still they lose...

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02-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #520
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If you're going to completely undercut the coach, you might as well fire him.

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02-17-2013, 11:53 AM
  #521
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
It all started before the beginning of the season when they reportedly put Lavi on a short leash, installing Paddock as the eye in the sky, and asked for them to play tighter defense which first sounded reasonable but somehow it has destroid the identy of the team.

Lavi's system - if we call it a "system" - is no longer in place, the players are lacking an "identy" and don't seem to know what is expected from them. They focus on defense and lose despite allowing fewer goals, Bryz plays well and still they lose...
Identity* but yea, I agree with you.

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02-17-2013, 11:55 AM
  #522
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Ugh Tocchet. I want someone that has never been subjected to the nonsense concept that is 'Flyers hockey'. Go get a coach that has been winning in Switzerland or something before 'staying in the family'. The Flyers way is a losing way.
We have not won cups in a while, but you CANNOT say that we have been a bad franchise.


In terms of winning%, this team is second best to only the habs

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/

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02-17-2013, 11:56 AM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If you're going to completely undercut the coach, you might as well fire him.
Pretty much, at this point....can firing lavy hurt us?


I mean, can we possibly play worse, its not like this team doesnt have talent

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02-17-2013, 12:05 PM
  #524
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I think tomorrow could be Lavy's last stand. A loss and poor effort performance against the Islanders and I think he is done. I think he knows its too judging by last nights post game testiness.

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02-17-2013, 12:05 PM
  #525
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Do the Devils have top-end talent? Absolutely not. On paper, our roster is better than theirs. The difference is the play a system that works and the players are 100% behind the coach.

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