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Jarmo might trade Jack Johnson.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:44 AM
  #51
Crustacean
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I don't put too much weight into advanced statistics with hockey. It just doesn't pan out the same way as baseball stats... way too many variables that can't be measured in hockey, and hockey is far too dependent on your teammates and coaching strategy to get at meaningful single player statistics.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Funny thing about this question is Jack Johnson's so-called "advanced stats" are none too shabby this season. Corsi's good considering his team and the competition he's against...driving the play from the defensive zone to the forward zone...Columbus doesn't get scored on when he's on the ice vs anybody else (slightly less).

In other words, right now is the exact wrong time to start thinking Jack Johnson's garbage due to his "advanced stats." They aren't bad this year. At all.
This*.

Well said.

JMFJ is finally showing some solid D and that he can become a very good number one (ironically enough now that he is being used/treated like one) after years of development with the Kings but forget the fact that he is doing very well this season, deal him now.

I am not saying that JJ = Orr or anything close but he is a solid PMD who can be effective everywhere else. He has had his problems in his own zone as he developed but he is playing much better in CBJville then he ever did as a King.

He is young and on a pretty good contract, you don't deal him now. You build your d around him and in two years when he has turned into a legit #1d you are set.

The other thing is that CBJ has allot of young players on the farm ready to make the jump and it is only getting better in that regard, hanging on to JMFJ makes sense in that you have a young team and need a few young vets to help with their transitions.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:46 AM
  #53
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I could see something around Johnson + for Drouin. Mackinnon and Drouin on the Jackets along with Ryan Murray on defense would make for a bright future in Columbus.

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02-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by oilersfan87 View Post
I could see something around Johnson + for Drouin. Mackinnon and Drouin on the Jackets along with Ryan Murray on defense would make for a bright future in Columbus.
I don't see any team drafting top 4 willing to trade that pick for a player like Jack Johnson.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:56 AM
  #55
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The first few posts of this thread make me think they've never seen JJ play in CBJ before. Absolute ludicrous. JJ has been good to great every night, he's going nowhere unless it brings back an absolute star. Lol at the JJ for RoR proposal, JJ is worth way more than that to us.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:07 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSGJ View Post
First of all what kind of GM is Jarmo Kekäläinen?



http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/13/39...ger-introduced

Secondly, what kind of player is Jack Johnson according to the advanced stats guys?



http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good

It isn't just Derek Zona on Copper n' Blue who is not a fan. I read several advanced stats bloggers and they all agree about Jack Johnson, which makes me think that Jarmo would agree as well.

I think Jarmo will try to trade JJ to a GM who buys into Johnson's reputation and don't look at the underlaying stats. An incompetent GM in other words.

The reason this might not happen is that JJ is the biggest name on a very depleted team and that he was the return on a big trade. It wouldn't be a popular trade, but Jarmo ought to do it for the best of the team.
Why didn't this thread get locked. Read those articles and you'll find out their about as legit as a steaming pile of crap. Kelly Rudy would never call an NHLer a "buck tooth pylon" He would get fired.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
I think a deal around JJ for Stastney would be a good idea for both teams. It gives CBJ a legit centreman. I do think that COL would have to add a bit as Stastney is a UFA after next season.

Then COL can trade RoR for a centreman like Gagner +. Gagner has skill and has made big strides this year, 4 goals, 11 assist in 14 games. His faceoffs have improved the last few games and I see this good for both teams.
What does Stastny do for Jackets?

They aren't contending and he will be UFA in a year and it is very hard for Columbus to keep FA's

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:25 PM
  #58
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I think JJ have taken some steps forward in even strength and he's showing true leadership in Columbus. He's playing 25+ minutes.

I don't think he's moved. More likely is that they'll get a solid stay at home guy that can cover for him.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #59
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CBJ are such a mess

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02-17-2013, 12:28 PM
  #60
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He should trade everyone for picks & just draft a new team.
This.

Change the team completely.

Team needs a major overhaul.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:30 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSGJ View Post
First of all what kind of GM is Jarmo Kekäläinen?



http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/13/39...ger-introduced

Secondly, what kind of player is Jack Johnson according to the advanced stats guys?



http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good

It isn't just Derek Zona on Copper n' Blue who is not a fan. I read several advanced stats bloggers and they all agree about Jack Johnson, which makes me think that Jarmo would agree as well.

I think Jarmo will try to trade JJ to a GM who buys into Johnson's reputation and don't look at the underlaying stats. An incompetent GM in other words.

The reason this might not happen is that JJ is the biggest name on a very depleted team and that he was the return on a big trade. It wouldn't be a popular trade, but Jarmo ought to do it for the best of the team.
but the stats that matter to GMs BJS would be silly to trade JJ--he is their workhorse right now and is growing into a very good all arounder

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Patizzie View Post
I find it far fetched I mean who is going to replace JJ's 30+ mins a night ?
You give those minutes to Tyutin-Nikitin. A pairing who can face the toughest competition and come out ahead, and who are way underutilized at the moment in Columbus.

With Murray back next year, they can pair him with Wiz on the 2nd pairing. Then Erixon-Moore with 3rd line easy minutes

Tyutin-Nikitin
Wiz-Murray
Erixon-Moore (or whoever)

Is a much nicer set up for next year especially after adding whatever they trade Johnson for, especially if its a young forward that they can pair with MacKinnon

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:33 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
You give those minutes to Tyutin-Nikitin. A pairing who can face the toughest competition and come out ahead, and who are way underutilized at the moment in Columbus.

With Murray back next year, they can pair him with Wiz on the 2nd pairing. Then Erixon-Moore with 3rd line easy minutes

Tyutin-Nikitin
Wiz-Murray
Erixon-Moore (or whoever)

Is a much nicer set up for next year especially after adding whatever they trade Johnson for, especially if its a young forward that they can pair with MacKinnon
Nikitin on the first pairing? Ugh. I don't even like Tyutin playing those kinds of minutes.

What makes you believe they're being "underutilized"?

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02-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #64
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Who's better, JJ or Wiz?

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #65
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The only thing this thread is filled with are people who have never seen Jack Johnson play a single minute in a CBJ uniform.

The difference is night and day when he's on the ice compared to when he's not. And I greatly enjoy advanced stats and metrics, but recognize the limitations within hockey.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:44 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
You give those minutes to Tyutin-Nikitin. A pairing who can face the toughest competition and come out ahead, and who are way underutilized at the moment in Columbus.

With Murray back next year, they can pair him with Wiz on the 2nd pairing. Then Erixon-Moore with 3rd line easy minutes

Tyutin-Nikitin
Wiz-Murray
Erixon-Moore (or whoever)

Is a much nicer set up for next year especially after adding whatever they trade Johnson for, especially if its a young forward that they can pair with MacKinnon
First off, let's hold our horses before throwing Murray in the second pairing. Maybe he can handle it, maybe he can't. We don't know yet.

Second, Tyutin and Nikitin have been terrible the past few games. They certainly do not look like they did last year. They are a good 2nd pairing right now but I would HATE to give them top pairing minutes.

Jack Johnson - Wisniewski
Tyutin - Nikitin
Moore - Murray
Erixon

If we have finally solved our defense and have one which is "good" then KEEP IT INTACT! Don't touch it! Address forward needs entirely through the draft and maybe free agency.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:46 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
I would be so pissed to see JD trade a 30+ minute a night defenseman for a second line center
Spending a lot of time on the ice does not make you a better player.

Mike Kostka is 11th in NHL time on ice, and he should be a third pair, second pair at best.

JJ is a solid PPQB, but defensively he has always been one of the worst possible.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Spending a lot of time on the ice does not make you a better player.

Mike Kostka is 11th in NHL time on ice, and he should be a third pair, second pair at best.

JJ is a solid PPQB, but defensively he has always been one of the worst possible.
Not this year.

Give me a choice of which defenseman to have in our own zone and I choose Johnson over Tyutin/Nikitin 10/10 times. He plays just as physically, blocks shots just as well, and doesn't commit as many stupid turnovers.

I really like Tyutin and Nikitin. In my eyes they are a good 2nd pairing. But the past couple of games "Turnover Tyutin" has made a comeback.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #69
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Just for some quick fun:

In 2012-2013 Defensemen that play major minutes with worse Corsi QoC and Rel Coris QoC

Marc Staal
Erik Karlsson
Mike Green
Brooks Orpik
Paul Martin
Keith Yandle

Heck even Doughty's Corsi QoC is considerably worse than JJ's.

Clearly, the CBJ need to mortgage the farm for Adam Pardy who is doing amazing based on Corsi

I think we'll keep JJ.

On a different topic, anyone interested in David Savard?

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:51 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSGJ View Post
First of all what kind of GM is Jarmo Kekäläinen?



http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/13/39...ger-introduced

Secondly, what kind of player is Jack Johnson according to the advanced stats guys?



http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good

It isn't just Derek Zona on Copper n' Blue who is not a fan. I read several advanced stats bloggers and they all agree about Jack Johnson, which makes me think that Jarmo would agree as well.

I think Jarmo will try to trade JJ to a GM who buys into Johnson's reputation and don't look at the underlaying stats. An incompetent GM in other words.

The reason this might not happen is that JJ is the biggest name on a very depleted team and that he was the return on a big trade. It wouldn't be a popular trade, but Jarmo ought to do it for the best of the team.
Your 'source' is a fan blog. I do not think he is a 'black hole' . He is talented but needs a severe attitude adjustment.

If he went to detroit they would straighten him out just fine.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Spending a lot of time on the ice does not make you a better player.

Mike Kostka is 11th in NHL time on ice, and he should be a third pair, second pair at best.

JJ is a solid PPQB, but defensively he has always been one of the worst possible.
And Dan Boyle was -29 in 37 games at one point. Are you saying you don't want Dan Boyle?

JJ was a +5 last year on the CBJ team that finished last. Somehow I think that calling him one of the worst possible in the defensive zone is an exaggeration.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:54 PM
  #72
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I might also add that they were talking about advanced stats when analyzing prospects / drafting (specifically with Ottawa and St. Louis). It's a lot different to employ stats when you can't see everyone than to factor it in when considering trading NHL players who you should be able get plenty of viewings of.

Thread title should be altered or locked because it's beyond speculative.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
CBJ are such a mess
You do realize that the foundation of this thread is essentially baseless, right? This isn't seriously being considered.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #74
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Stats are facts... In the long run they hardly ever lie. Thorough analytical work, like that done by Hockey Prospectus, is needed to make a proper evaluation of them.
-Jarmo Kekalainen, 12/13 Hockey Prospectus Annual

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR21 View Post
-Jarmo Kekalainen, 12/13 Hockey Prospectus Annual
Again, he made that quote about potential draftees, not about NHL players.

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