Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
The first few posts of this thread make me think they've never seen JJ play in CBJ before. Absolute ludicrous. JJ has been good to great every night, he's going nowhere unless it brings back an absolute star. Lol at the JJ for RoR proposal, JJ is worth way more than that to us.
That's why I said there was no reason to trade him, whatsoever.
He's playing the best hockey I've EVER seen him play and as someone who followed him extensively at Michigan and in LA, I've seen nearly every game he's played since he's come up at the NHL level.
Guy has developed into an absolute stud with more minutes and more responsibility, it's amazing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick
Who's better, JJ or Wiz?
JJ without a shadow of a doubt. JJ's leading the league in TOI and is playing EXCEPTIONALLY well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cslebn
Just for some quick fun:
In 2012-2013 Defensemen that play major minutes with worse Corsi QoC and Rel Coris QoC
Marc Staal
Erik Karlsson
Mike Green
Brooks Orpik
Paul Martin
Keith Yandle
Heck even Doughty's Corsi QoC is considerably worse than JJ's.
Clearly, the CBJ need to mortgage the farm for Adam Pardy who is doing amazing based on Corsi
I think we'll keep JJ.
On a different topic, anyone interested in David Savard?
I don't value CORSI or any other Sabremetric rating systems at all. They don't work in properly evaluating players in Baseball or Hockey.
For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
I don't value CORSI or any other Sabremetric rating systems at all. They don't work in properly evaluating players in Baseball or Hockey.
For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
I absolutely and 100% agree with you on this. Stats are fun and all but they don't tell the true story and often are easily misrepresented (especially here on HF). My posts with stats were half sarcasm half "r u seriuz"
Last year they faced by the far the toughest minutes of any Blue Jackets pairing, with a 45% zone start, yet still were the only 2 with a positive corsi on the team
They have had a rough start this year, but they still should be the go to pairing in Columbus
With Murray returning, the Blue Jackets have a very nice defensive core, but they really need forward help, and since JJ will probably bring back the most assets, it makes a lot of sense to trade him. Position of strength for a position of weakness etc
I don't value CORSI or any other Sabremetric rating systems at all. They don't work in properly evaluating players in Baseball or Hockey.
For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
you have to combine Corsi with other stuff, such as zone start, quality of competition, to get any kind of relevant stat from it. And generally should only really compare stats within teams, not comparing to other teams
You give those minutes to Tyutin-Nikitin. A pairing who can face the toughest competition and come out ahead, and who are way underutilized at the moment in Columbus.
At the moment they're being underutilized because they're having a very ugly time of it. Nikitin's puck luck, in particular, is enough to convert one to belief in voodoo curses. And he's unfortunately not handling the adversity as well as we'd like.
They're both highly valued players we want to keep. But that doesn't take away from what JMFJ has been doing ever since he came to Columbus. It's like how Carter's play was night and day when he was without/with Mike Richards, only with JMFJ the catalyst seems to have been being in the Midwest with James Wisniewski.
__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards
Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Apparently Nieuwendyk was trying to pry him out of L.A. for James Neal. L.A. wouldn't do the deal and that's when he turned to Pittsburgh instead.
I don't watch JJ a lot, and going by all the comments you have to assume that where there's smoke there's fire, but I would much rather have him than Goligoski. Both are clearly flawed but at least JJ has the big play/game capability and you can put him out there against the bigger forwards. Goligoski really just has no game. And now we're stuck with him.
I am a fan of GMs that use Corsi or Sabremetric stats, but at the same time, I don't think Jarmo will just up and trade Johnson to get rid of him. He is currently the Blue Jackets best player, and has already endeared himself to fans with Nash out of the picture.
Will he be moved? Who knows, I really don't have a beat on Jarmo.
Should he be actively trying to move him? Absolutely not.
If he's offered the sun, moon and stars, I think Johnson moves, but on paper, where are the Jackets weak? Everywhere and no where. Goals against is high, goals for are low, and the team leader in points is a defender in Tyutin.
An improvement in net (no, I'm not pushing Luongo/Schneider despite my avatar and favourite team), a shutdown defender and a couple of shutdown forwards (in the breed of Malhotra or Pahlsson...sorry for poaching them) and Columbus is better for it. If you can't pay for premium scoring talent, grind, grind, grind.
That's my view, and you can obtain these improvements without trading a top pairing offensive defender. All signs point to Jarmo being a clever and intelligent GM, I hope JJ isn't shown the door because of his advanced stats.
At the moment they're being underutilized because they're having a very ugly time of it. Nikitin's puck luck, in particular, is enough to convert one to belief in voodoo curses. And he's unfortunately not handling the adversity as well as we'd like.
They're both highly valued players we want to keep. But that doesn't take away from what JMFJ has been doing ever since he came to Columbus.
Agreed, ideally though, Columbus want to give Tyutin-Nikitin the tough even strength minutes (assuming they break out of their funk), then give the 2nd pairing a lot of offensive zone starts and a bulk of pp minutes. Yet there are 3 players who ideally should be on that 2nd pairing role, Wiz, JJ and Murray.
In terms of asset management, it just makes a lot of sense to trade 1 of those 3 for forward help, with Erixon coming up aswell as another good young defenceman, and Wiz and Murray will bring back nowhere near as much as Johnson. Although on the flip side, if used correctly, Johnson will score by far the most points from the blueline, making it less than ideal to trade him. Tricky spot for your gm to be in tbh
For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
Not that I disagree about the limitations of "advanced" stats, but Tobias Enstrom is freaking awesome. He should have been the frontrunner for the norris this year until he got hurt, far as I'm concerned.
Anyways, too much bashing of Columbus in this thread. They may still be in last, but this jackets team isn't last years' jackets team. They can't outscore the other team, but every game is tight and I've seen them get jobbed out of wins 3 times so far with awful calls in the last few minutes (something that tends to happen when you have a young team with no currency with the referees).
The Jackets tentatively have a legitimate NHL D in place (including Johnson if he keeps playing the way he is this year). Why they lose is they don't have the hard-to-find pieces at forward (top 2 centers), or, at least, the guys they have at center haven't emerged as legit threats yet. But make no mistake--they're in every game.
I'm not saying they're ready to emerge as a dynasty (far from it), but they're a lot closer to battling for a playoff spot than people think.
I'm pretty sure he's a solid player for the Jackets. In fact, In a lot of trade scenarios I'm sure losing him would hurt the team more.
Yes he is and yes it would. He's a minus player but so is most of the players on the Jackets. Only plus players are players who havn't played in many games/don't get a lot of minutes. So it's not like it's him hurting the team. Also, I guess this goes for everyone on the team but if the team has a hard time scoring, your +/- won't get any better. If he's traded, it means more minutes to the younger guys and I'm not sure if they can handle it right now. Also, Columbus needs to find a way to sell more tickets. JJ is a fan fav, if he is traded, I wonder if it would result in losing more fans.
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Originally Posted by Landeskog2Semin
Foligno+JJ for ROR?
Most, if not all of the Columbus fans won't do a JJ for ROR trade. Won't be happy if we're adding. Especially Foligno as I think he fits the rebuild(they talk about working hard is the way to go and Foligno would be one of those players who works hard).
I am a fan of GMs that use Corsi or Sabremetric stats, but at the same time, I don't think Jarmo will just up and trade Johnson to get rid of him. He is currently the Blue Jackets best player, and has already endeared himself to fans with Nash out of the picture.
Will he be moved? Who knows, I really don't have a beat on Jarmo.
Should he be actively trying to move him? Absolutely not.
If he's offered the sun, moon and stars, I think Johnson moves, but on paper, where are the Jackets weak? Everywhere and no where. Goals against is high, goals for are low, and the team leader in points is a defender in Tyutin.
An improvement in net (no, I'm not pushing Luongo/Schneider despite my avatar and favourite team), a shutdown defender and a couple of shutdown forwards (in the breed of Malhotra or Pahlsson...sorry for poaching them) and Columbus is better for it. If you can't pay for premium scoring talent, grind, grind, grind.
That's my view, and you can obtain these improvements without trading a top pairing offensive defender. All signs point to Jarmo being a clever and intelligent GM, I hope JJ isn't shown the door because of his advanced stats.
No. ROR is a second line center. A very good one, and one that I happen to like, but that is not worth Jack Johnson, let alone another player on top of him.
CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft. They add lots of youth and depth on their defensive core, adding to their first rounder from this year, and add a pick to add additional depth. We also have a plethora of wingers and depth players in the NHL, could easily work in MacArthur to seal the deal.
Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
Last edited by Paladin2799: 02-17-2013 at 02:08 PM.
CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft.
Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
If we could stop with the proposals for a guy not going to be traded...that'd be great.
CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft.
Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
I think Jarmo will make a lot of trades Jacket fans may not be happy with right away but will love after awhile. The guy is a draft genius, get as many 1st round picks as you can the next couple yrs and let him rebuild your team, you will not be disappointed.
Not that I disagree about the limitations of "advanced" stats, but Tobias Enstrom is freaking awesome. He should have been the frontrunner for the norris this year until he got hurt, far as I'm concerned.
Anyways, too much bashing of Columbus in this thread. They may still be in last, but this jackets team isn't last years' jackets team. They can't outscore the other team, but every game is tight and I've seen them get jobbed out of wins 3 times so far with awful calls in the last few minutes (something that tends to happen when you have a young team with no currency with the referees).
The Jackets tentatively have a legitimate NHL D in place (including Johnson if he keeps playing the way he is this year). Why they lose is they don't have the hard-to-find pieces at forward (top 2 centers), or, at least, the guys they have at center haven't emerged as legit threats yet. But make no mistake--they're in every game.
I'm not saying they're ready to emerge as a dynasty (far from it), but they're a lot closer to battling for a playoff spot than people think.
Excellent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin2799
Gunnarsson+Percey+2nd
for
JJ
CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft. They add lots of youth and depth on their defensive core, adding to their first rounder from this year, and add a pick to add additional depth. We also have a plethora of wingers and depth players in the NHL, could easily work in MacArthur to seal the deal.
Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
Awful. Maybe, maybe, if that 2nd became a 1st it wouldn't be immediately rejected, but even then I can't imagine that offer lasting very long in serious discussions.
Awful. Maybe, maybe, if that 2nd became a 1st it wouldn't be immediately rejected, but even then I can't imagine that offer lasting very long in serious discussions.
Defensively, Columbus wouldn't suffer much when subbing Carl Gunnarsson with JJ. In fact, the BJs would probably be better in their own zone. Offensively, Carl would never come close to filling JJ's shoes.
Another thing to consider is that Jack Johnson is on a cap friendly deal signed longterm. He's playing big minutes for the team, but paid like a second line defenceman for 5 years after this year (and right through his prime). If they trade him for RoR, does RoR sign a cap friendly deal? Does RoR sign for a long enough term to make it work it for the team? Not saying that there'll always be a stigma against Columbus, but right now it's not a traditional market, and not a competitive team, but they're also in a position where they don't have a ton of cap space to waste it where they've got deals.
For the record, I think JJ for RoR is roughly equal, but while Columbus would create a hole in the lineup when filling another, Colorado would be dealing from a position of excess to fill a position of need, so Colorado would be laughing.
Defensively, Columbus wouldn't suffer much when subbing Carl Gunnarsson with JJ. In fact, the BJs would probably be better in their own zone. Offensively, Carl would never come close to filling JJ's shoes.
In other words, it's a massive downgrade that hopefully Stuart Percy (not in the NHL, and would be among a large group of CBJ defenseman prospects) and a freakin' 2nd-rounder would offset. And that's for a guy playing 28 minutes a night, on all special teams, and who completely changes the way the team plays when he's on the ice.
