HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jarmo might trade Jack Johnson.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #76
Gagnefan924
Need Moar AmericanZ
 
Gagnefan924's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Spending a lot of time on the ice does not make you a better player.

Mike Kostka is 11th in NHL time on ice, and he should be a third pair, second pair at best.

JJ is a solid PPQB, but defensively he has always been one of the worst possible.
Thanks Toronto guy who doesn't watch Columbus at all and is going on what HF people said about Jack in LA. Your opinion is infact, a terrible one.

Gagnefan924 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:00 PM
  #77
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Your 'source' is a fan blog. I do not think he is a 'black hole' . He is talented but needs a severe attitude adjustment.

If he went to detroit they would straighten him out just fine.
An "attitude adjustment"? Are you serious? What on earth are you basing this on?

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:01 PM
  #78
SchultzSquared
Registered User
 
SchultzSquared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
So with Avs injuries maybe JJ for O'Reilly... gives the Blue Jackets a defensively strong C who can play top six...

SchultzSquared is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:01 PM
  #79
CM Lundqvist
Best In The World
 
CM Lundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 8,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
The first few posts of this thread make me think they've never seen JJ play in CBJ before. Absolute ludicrous. JJ has been good to great every night, he's going nowhere unless it brings back an absolute star. Lol at the JJ for RoR proposal, JJ is worth way more than that to us.
That's why I said there was no reason to trade him, whatsoever.

He's playing the best hockey I've EVER seen him play and as someone who followed him extensively at Michigan and in LA, I've seen nearly every game he's played since he's come up at the NHL level.

Guy has developed into an absolute stud with more minutes and more responsibility, it's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Who's better, JJ or Wiz?
JJ without a shadow of a doubt. JJ's leading the league in TOI and is playing EXCEPTIONALLY well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cslebn View Post
Just for some quick fun:

In 2012-2013 Defensemen that play major minutes with worse Corsi QoC and Rel Coris QoC

Marc Staal
Erik Karlsson
Mike Green
Brooks Orpik
Paul Martin
Keith Yandle

Heck even Doughty's Corsi QoC is considerably worse than JJ's.

Clearly, the CBJ need to mortgage the farm for Adam Pardy who is doing amazing based on Corsi

I think we'll keep JJ.

On a different topic, anyone interested in David Savard?
I don't value CORSI or any other Sabremetric rating systems at all. They don't work in properly evaluating players in Baseball or Hockey.

For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.

CM Lundqvist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:04 PM
  #80
cslebn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post

I don't value CORSI or any other Sabremetric rating systems at all. They don't work in properly evaluating players in Baseball or Hockey.

For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
I absolutely and 100% agree with you on this. Stats are fun and all but they don't tell the true story and often are easily misrepresented (especially here on HF). My posts with stats were half sarcasm half "r u seriuz"

cslebn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:07 PM
  #81
Muzzinga
Regehr GOAT
 
Muzzinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Nikitin on the first pairing? Ugh. I don't even like Tyutin playing those kinds of minutes.

What makes you believe they're being "underutilized"?
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

Last year they faced by the far the toughest minutes of any Blue Jackets pairing, with a 45% zone start, yet still were the only 2 with a positive corsi on the team

They have had a rough start this year, but they still should be the go to pairing in Columbus

With Murray returning, the Blue Jackets have a very nice defensive core, but they really need forward help, and since JJ will probably bring back the most assets, it makes a lot of sense to trade him. Position of strength for a position of weakness etc

Muzzinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:10 PM
  #82
Muzzinga
Regehr GOAT
 
Muzzinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post

I don't value CORSI or any other Sabremetric rating systems at all. They don't work in properly evaluating players in Baseball or Hockey.

For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
you have to combine Corsi with other stuff, such as zone start, quality of competition, to get any kind of relevant stat from it. And generally should only really compare stats within teams, not comparing to other teams

Muzzinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:19 PM
  #83
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 20,384
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
You give those minutes to Tyutin-Nikitin. A pairing who can face the toughest competition and come out ahead, and who are way underutilized at the moment in Columbus.
At the moment they're being underutilized because they're having a very ugly time of it. Nikitin's puck luck, in particular, is enough to convert one to belief in voodoo curses. And he's unfortunately not handling the adversity as well as we'd like.

They're both highly valued players we want to keep. But that doesn't take away from what JMFJ has been doing ever since he came to Columbus. It's like how Carter's play was night and day when he was without/with Mike Richards, only with JMFJ the catalyst seems to have been being in the Midwest with James Wisniewski.

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:20 PM
  #84
tjcurrie
Registered User
 
tjcurrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gibbons, Alberta
Posts: 3,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsfan17 View Post
What would it take to bring JJ to Dallas?
Apparently Nieuwendyk was trying to pry him out of L.A. for James Neal. L.A. wouldn't do the deal and that's when he turned to Pittsburgh instead.

I don't watch JJ a lot, and going by all the comments you have to assume that where there's smoke there's fire, but I would much rather have him than Goligoski. Both are clearly flawed but at least JJ has the big play/game capability and you can put him out there against the bigger forwards. Goligoski really just has no game. And now we're stuck with him.

tjcurrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:21 PM
  #85
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,725
vCash: 50
I am a fan of GMs that use Corsi or Sabremetric stats, but at the same time, I don't think Jarmo will just up and trade Johnson to get rid of him. He is currently the Blue Jackets best player, and has already endeared himself to fans with Nash out of the picture.

Will he be moved? Who knows, I really don't have a beat on Jarmo.

Should he be actively trying to move him? Absolutely not.

If he's offered the sun, moon and stars, I think Johnson moves, but on paper, where are the Jackets weak? Everywhere and no where. Goals against is high, goals for are low, and the team leader in points is a defender in Tyutin.

An improvement in net (no, I'm not pushing Luongo/Schneider despite my avatar and favourite team), a shutdown defender and a couple of shutdown forwards (in the breed of Malhotra or Pahlsson...sorry for poaching them) and Columbus is better for it. If you can't pay for premium scoring talent, grind, grind, grind.

That's my view, and you can obtain these improvements without trading a top pairing offensive defender. All signs point to Jarmo being a clever and intelligent GM, I hope JJ isn't shown the door because of his advanced stats.

Cogburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:24 PM
  #86
Muzzinga
Regehr GOAT
 
Muzzinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
At the moment they're being underutilized because they're having a very ugly time of it. Nikitin's puck luck, in particular, is enough to convert one to belief in voodoo curses. And he's unfortunately not handling the adversity as well as we'd like.

They're both highly valued players we want to keep. But that doesn't take away from what JMFJ has been doing ever since he came to Columbus.
Agreed, ideally though, Columbus want to give Tyutin-Nikitin the tough even strength minutes (assuming they break out of their funk), then give the 2nd pairing a lot of offensive zone starts and a bulk of pp minutes. Yet there are 3 players who ideally should be on that 2nd pairing role, Wiz, JJ and Murray.

In terms of asset management, it just makes a lot of sense to trade 1 of those 3 for forward help, with Erixon coming up aswell as another good young defenceman, and Wiz and Murray will bring back nowhere near as much as Johnson. Although on the flip side, if used correctly, Johnson will score by far the most points from the blueline, making it less than ideal to trade him. Tricky spot for your gm to be in tbh

Muzzinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:28 PM
  #87
Killem Dafoe
Moderator
modus operandi
 
Killem Dafoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 15,254
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I agree with Jarmo. Maybe he's a big game player. Maybe he turns it up big time when playing for USA.

But overall during the NHL regular season, he's awful defensively and hurts his team.
I'm pretty sure he's a solid player for the Jackets. In fact, In a lot of trade scenarios I'm sure losing him would hurt the team more.

Killem Dafoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:40 PM
  #88
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
For example, Tobias Enstrom had a higher CORSI rating than Shea Weber did last season.
Not that I disagree about the limitations of "advanced" stats, but Tobias Enstrom is freaking awesome. He should have been the frontrunner for the norris this year until he got hurt, far as I'm concerned.


Anyways, too much bashing of Columbus in this thread. They may still be in last, but this jackets team isn't last years' jackets team. They can't outscore the other team, but every game is tight and I've seen them get jobbed out of wins 3 times so far with awful calls in the last few minutes (something that tends to happen when you have a young team with no currency with the referees).

The Jackets tentatively have a legitimate NHL D in place (including Johnson if he keeps playing the way he is this year). Why they lose is they don't have the hard-to-find pieces at forward (top 2 centers), or, at least, the guys they have at center haven't emerged as legit threats yet. But make no mistake--they're in every game.

I'm not saying they're ready to emerge as a dynasty (far from it), but they're a lot closer to battling for a playoff spot than people think.

billybudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:41 PM
  #89
MacWinnon
Registered User
 
MacWinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mountains, Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 146
vCash: 500
Foligno+JJ for ROR?

MacWinnon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:41 PM
  #90
punk_o_holic
 
punk_o_holic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: N. Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Japan
Posts: 6,788
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
I'm pretty sure he's a solid player for the Jackets. In fact, In a lot of trade scenarios I'm sure losing him would hurt the team more.
Yes he is and yes it would. He's a minus player but so is most of the players on the Jackets. Only plus players are players who havn't played in many games/don't get a lot of minutes. So it's not like it's him hurting the team. Also, I guess this goes for everyone on the team but if the team has a hard time scoring, your +/- won't get any better. If he's traded, it means more minutes to the younger guys and I'm not sure if they can handle it right now. Also, Columbus needs to find a way to sell more tickets. JJ is a fan fav, if he is traded, I wonder if it would result in losing more fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog2Semin View Post
Foligno+JJ for ROR?
Most, if not all of the Columbus fans won't do a JJ for ROR trade. Won't be happy if we're adding. Especially Foligno as I think he fits the rebuild(they talk about working hard is the way to go and Foligno would be one of those players who works hard).

punk_o_holic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:44 PM
  #91
Crede777
Deputized
 
Crede777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 7,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I am a fan of GMs that use Corsi or Sabremetric stats, but at the same time, I don't think Jarmo will just up and trade Johnson to get rid of him. He is currently the Blue Jackets best player, and has already endeared himself to fans with Nash out of the picture.

Will he be moved? Who knows, I really don't have a beat on Jarmo.

Should he be actively trying to move him? Absolutely not.

If he's offered the sun, moon and stars, I think Johnson moves, but on paper, where are the Jackets weak? Everywhere and no where. Goals against is high, goals for are low, and the team leader in points is a defender in Tyutin.

An improvement in net (no, I'm not pushing Luongo/Schneider despite my avatar and favourite team), a shutdown defender and a couple of shutdown forwards (in the breed of Malhotra or Pahlsson...sorry for poaching them) and Columbus is better for it. If you can't pay for premium scoring talent, grind, grind, grind.

That's my view, and you can obtain these improvements without trading a top pairing offensive defender. All signs point to Jarmo being a clever and intelligent GM, I hope JJ isn't shown the door because of his advanced stats.
I agree with this 100%.

Crede777 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #92
candyman82
Registered User
 
candyman82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 2,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog2Semin View Post
Foligno+JJ for ROR?
No. ROR is a second line center. A very good one, and one that I happen to like, but that is not worth Jack Johnson, let alone another player on top of him.

candyman82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #93
Paladin2799
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,629
vCash: 500
Gunnarsson+Percey+2nd

for

JJ


CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft. They add lots of youth and depth on their defensive core, adding to their first rounder from this year, and add a pick to add additional depth. We also have a plethora of wingers and depth players in the NHL, could easily work in MacArthur to seal the deal.

Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.


Last edited by Paladin2799: 02-17-2013 at 02:08 PM.
Paladin2799 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:04 PM
  #94
Gagnefan924
Need Moar AmericanZ
 
Gagnefan924's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
Gunnarsson+Percey+2nd

for

JJ


CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft.

Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
If we could stop with the proposals for a guy not going to be traded...that'd be great.

Gagnefan924 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #95
Live in the Now
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Live in the Now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: LA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,928
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
Gunnarsson+Percey+2nd

for

JJ


CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft.

Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
That's a terrible proposal to be honest.

Live in the Now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:08 PM
  #96
Oshie97
Registered User
 
Oshie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,360
vCash: 500
I think Jarmo will make a lot of trades Jacket fans may not be happy with right away but will love after awhile. The guy is a draft genius, get as many 1st round picks as you can the next couple yrs and let him rebuild your team, you will not be disappointed.

Oshie97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #97
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Not that I disagree about the limitations of "advanced" stats, but Tobias Enstrom is freaking awesome. He should have been the frontrunner for the norris this year until he got hurt, far as I'm concerned.


Anyways, too much bashing of Columbus in this thread. They may still be in last, but this jackets team isn't last years' jackets team. They can't outscore the other team, but every game is tight and I've seen them get jobbed out of wins 3 times so far with awful calls in the last few minutes (something that tends to happen when you have a young team with no currency with the referees).

The Jackets tentatively have a legitimate NHL D in place (including Johnson if he keeps playing the way he is this year). Why they lose is they don't have the hard-to-find pieces at forward (top 2 centers), or, at least, the guys they have at center haven't emerged as legit threats yet. But make no mistake--they're in every game.

I'm not saying they're ready to emerge as a dynasty (far from it), but they're a lot closer to battling for a playoff spot than people think.
Excellent post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
Gunnarsson+Percey+2nd

for

JJ


CBJ get a smart, cheap, top4 defenseman who plays a solid game and could probobly be resigned on the cheap. A former first round pick who has been playing extremely well and projects to be a strong top4 all around deefenseman. A 2nd round pick in what should be a deep draft. They add lots of youth and depth on their defensive core, adding to their first rounder from this year, and add a pick to add additional depth. We also have a plethora of wingers and depth players in the NHL, could easily work in MacArthur to seal the deal.

Toronto gets a smooth skating defensive minute eater to play next to phaneuf.
Awful. Maybe, maybe, if that 2nd became a 1st it wouldn't be immediately rejected, but even then I can't imagine that offer lasting very long in serious discussions.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:13 PM
  #98
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Excellent post.



Awful. Maybe, maybe, if that 2nd became a 1st it wouldn't be immediately rejected, but even then I can't imagine that offer lasting very long in serious discussions.
Defensively, Columbus wouldn't suffer much when subbing Carl Gunnarsson with JJ. In fact, the BJs would probably be better in their own zone. Offensively, Carl would never come close to filling JJ's shoes.

The Saurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:14 PM
  #99
deckercky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,631
vCash: 500
Another thing to consider is that Jack Johnson is on a cap friendly deal signed longterm. He's playing big minutes for the team, but paid like a second line defenceman for 5 years after this year (and right through his prime). If they trade him for RoR, does RoR sign a cap friendly deal? Does RoR sign for a long enough term to make it work it for the team? Not saying that there'll always be a stigma against Columbus, but right now it's not a traditional market, and not a competitive team, but they're also in a position where they don't have a ton of cap space to waste it where they've got deals.

For the record, I think JJ for RoR is roughly equal, but while Columbus would create a hole in the lineup when filling another, Colorado would be dealing from a position of excess to fill a position of need, so Colorado would be laughing.

deckercky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #100
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Defensively, Columbus wouldn't suffer much when subbing Carl Gunnarsson with JJ. In fact, the BJs would probably be better in their own zone. Offensively, Carl would never come close to filling JJ's shoes.
In other words, it's a massive downgrade that hopefully Stuart Percy (not in the NHL, and would be among a large group of CBJ defenseman prospects) and a freakin' 2nd-rounder would offset. And that's for a guy playing 28 minutes a night, on all special teams, and who completely changes the way the team plays when he's on the ice.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.