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12-13' Prospects Thread Version XV: Rielly Wins WHL Eastern Conf. Dman of the Year

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:08 AM
  #26
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
I don't know why you keep bringing up the Brendan Bell comparisons...

Bell was a 3rd rounder, not a 5th overall pick. When Bell won the CHL defenseman of the year, he was in his overaged year, turning 20, 2 years after being drafted. Rielly is 18 turning 19, a full year younger right now. Bell did not have any of the elite attributes that Rielly has coming out of junior, or else he would have been a 1st rounder.

If you're using Benden Bell to discredit Rielly, then you may as well use Brenden Kichton to discredit Seth Jones. Kichton currently leads all WHL defensemen in points, ahead of Jones, after being a 5th rounder in 2011. Let's ignore the age gap and all other factors that influence points for a defenseman and say Seth Jones is overrated since he can't even out-produce Brenden Kichton.
This is a tremendous post. Well done.

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02-17-2013, 11:09 AM
  #27
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Hamilton's performance has nothing to do Rielly's performance. He played ok hockey at WJC's, just like the rest of the the defenseman. Pretty underwhelming overall. I don't think Rielly was used correctly, but he also didn't prove himself enough to be a top pairing player in the tournament.
Hamilton was awful, as was Murphy.

edit: new thread coming.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1352703

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:11 AM
  #28
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Hamilton's performance has nothing to do Rielly's performance. He played ok hockey at WJC's, just like the rest of the the defenseman. Pretty underwhelming overall. I don't think Rielly was used correctly, but he also didn't prove himself enough to be a top pairing player in the tournament.
I wondered whether he wasn't healthy. He had got knocked around a bit in the Russia tour.

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02-17-2013, 11:14 AM
  #29
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ULF what did you just do?

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:17 AM
  #30
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ULF what did you just do?
It's all yours man.


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02-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #31
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It's all yours man.

But I just made another thread... And you didn't sticky it, instead you duplicated the old one..

What is this... I don't even..

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #32
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But I just made another thread... And you didn't sticky it, instead you duplicated the old one..

What is this... I don't even..
Just like to have some continuity with leading posts.

Includes a couple pages of posts from the old, and your title page.

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02-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
I don't know why you keep bringing up the Brendan Bell comparisons...

Bell was a 3rd rounder, not a 5th overall pick. When Bell won the CHL defenseman of the year, he was in his overaged year, turning 20, 2 years after being drafted. Rielly is 18 turning 19, a full year younger right now. Bell did not have any of the elite attributes that Rielly has coming out of junior, or else he would have been a 1st rounder.

If you're using Benden Bell to discredit Rielly, then you may as well use Brenden Kichton to discredit Seth Jones. Kichton currently leads all WHL defensemen in points, ahead of Jones, after being a 5th rounder in 2011. Let's ignore the age gap and all other factors that influence points for a defenseman and say Seth Jones is overrated since he can't even out-produce Brenden Kichton.
Just one small correction. Bell was not an overaged player. He was in his final year of junior eligibility. A player who is not a late birthday, ie, one who turns 18 between January 1 and Septmber 15 of the year of the draft, has two years of eligibility left. That was the case with Bell. For an example of a player who takes an overaged year, check Jamie Devane.

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02-17-2013, 12:12 PM
  #34
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I'm a little bit worried about Biggs's production. Shouldn't he be totally dominating considering most of the league is half his size.

He isn't even PPG in his league and it has been a couple years since he was drafted.

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02-17-2013, 12:15 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
I'm a little bit worried about Biggs's production. Shouldn't he be totally dominating considering most of the league is half his size.

He isn't even PPG in his league and it has been a couple years since he was drafted.
I put his target at 65 points for this season as required for a player like him.

Sorry had it at 66 points:

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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Kind of OT, but kind of not:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=19350

George as an 18 year old played 62 games, had 19 goals and 41 points.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=1018

Wendel as an 18 year old played 64 games had 32 goals and 87 points.

Dan Hodgson as a 19 year old (Leafs' pick) was second in league scoring that same year with 70 goals and 182 points. He was beat out by Cliff Ronning with 89 goals and 197 points.

So Wendel had less than half the points of the league leader. Wendel was a defenseman, and his father insisted he was a better defenseman than forward. I've read he played defense in junior, I can't confirm I wasn't there. He was drafted as a defenseman.

Last year the points leader in the OHL had 102 points.

So applying the Wendel Clark ratio and adding 50% for being a forward and a year older, I'm going to say 66 points.


Last edited by ULF_55: 02-17-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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02-17-2013, 12:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I put his target at 65 points for this season as required for a player like him.
Would you say those are results needed to indicate top 6 power forward potential, or more like 3rd line production? I'm not too fimiliar with junior stats

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02-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
I'm a little bit worried about Biggs's production. Shouldn't he be totally dominating considering most of the league is half his size.

He isn't even PPG in his league and it has been a couple years since he was drafted.
Biggs is massive, but he's not the greatest skater. The OHL is a quick league, and if Biggs had both size and skating ability he would be dominant IMO.

I think he'll be a Ryan Malone type of player in the NHL. Malone took a while to develop into an offensive player, and is now a nice compliment to a line with fast, skilled players.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #38
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Biggs is massive, but he's not the greatest skater. The OHL is a quick league, and if Biggs had both size and skating ability he would be dominant IMO.
Hopefully he can work on that with the Leafs, like Tavares worked on his with the Islanders.

Probably difference between 4th. and 2nd. line for the Leafs.

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02-17-2013, 12:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
I'm a little bit worried about Biggs's production. Shouldn't he be totally dominating considering most of the league is half his size.

He isn't even PPG in his league and it has been a couple years since he was drafted.
He's never going to be an elite scorer. He shouldn't be expected to. What he will be is a 3rd line banger and crasher that can chip in 20 and play big in big games.

A big body that can skate well, hit and fight is an asset. Think of him as a more physical Kulemin.

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02-17-2013, 12:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Biggs is massive, but he's not the greatest skater. The OHL is a quick league, and if Biggs had both size and skating ability he would be dominant IMO.

I think he'll be a Ryan Malone type of player in the NHL. Malone took a while to develop into an offensive player, and is now a nice compliment to a line with fast, skilled players.
Biggs actually skate well for a guy his size. Not sure why he gets a bad rap for that. Maybe some posters haven't seen him play.

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02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #41
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I wouldn't put a cap on Biggs' potential as a 3rd liner.

Milan Lucic was never a PPG player in junior....and until he was 22-23 he looked like a 45 point guy and now with good linemates he's a 60 point guy.

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Old
02-17-2013, 12:51 PM
  #42
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Biggs actually skate well for a guy his size. Not sure why he gets a bad rap for that. Maybe some posters haven't seen him play.
Yeah he skates alright, for a big man. You compared him to Kulemin, but Kulemin's skating is light years ahead of Biggs'.

Skating is one of the most important elements of a successful NHL player, so he'll definitely need to improve before making the step to pro. Like ULF said, his skaing will determine if he'll be a top or bottom 6 player. Luckily Barb Underhill is one of the best skating coaches in the business, so he has a great chance to imorove this aspect of his game.

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02-17-2013, 12:54 PM
  #43
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Good to hear that Biggs is having a decent year for the type of player he is. Can't wait to have a player like that on the leafs. I was hoping he would be a player like Roberts. We haven't had that in a long time.

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02-17-2013, 12:54 PM
  #44
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Yeah he skates alright, for a big man. You compared him to Kulemin, but Kulemin's skating is light years ahead of Biggs'.

Skating is one of the most important elements of a successful NHL player, so he'll definitely need to improve before making the step to pro. Like ULF said, his skaing will determine if he'll be a top or bottom 6 player. Luckily Barb Underhill is one of the best skating coaches in the business, so he has a great chance to imorove this aspect of his game.
No it isn't -- read some scouting reports -- and watch some video. He doesn't have the greatest hands or hockey IQ but he skates very well.

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02-17-2013, 12:57 PM
  #45
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Why this obsession with point production? (Especially for a player who plays the role that Biggs plays). Making space on the ice for the other two forwards on the line often does not get you points, but you are easily as valuable in "assisting" the goal as the guy who passed the puck. Look at the Kessel line before JVR started playing with them. Having three forwards who can pass and score is useless if they don't have the time and space to utilize their gifts.

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02-17-2013, 01:08 PM
  #46
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Why this obsession with point production? (Especially for a player who plays the role that Biggs plays). Making space on the ice for the other two forwards on the line often does not get you points, but you are easily as valuable in "assisting" the goal as the guy who passed the puck. Look at the Kessel line before JVR started playing with them. Having three forwards who can pass and score is useless if they don't have the time and space to utilize their gifts.
Agreed, but what I meant was if Biggs has enough skill and Hockey sense to be a regular NHLer or will he be stuck in the AHL mostly like players like tangradi, caputi etc.

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02-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
Why this obsession with point production? (Especially for a player who plays the role that Biggs plays). Making space on the ice for the other two forwards on the line often does not get you points, but you are easily as valuable in "assisting" the goal as the guy who passed the puck. Look at the Kessel line before JVR started playing with them. Having three forwards who can pass and score is useless if they don't have the time and space to utilize their gifts.
You are right, can't always look at this. That is why people might be nervous about Ross and McKegg, but it is too early, and they aren't in the best situation. I see Biggs being in the same position next year, with far lower point totals. He is a long term (brisket in the oven) project, people can't expect lights out stats right away.

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:37 PM
  #48
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Agreed, but what I meant was if Biggs has enough skill and Hockey sense to be a regular NHLer or will he be stuck in the AHL mostly like players like tangradi, caputi etc.
He was considered the toughest, best hitter and fighter in his draft year. He also has enough skill to play a regular shift and chip in 20 goals. Posters expecting 30 or 40 goals are looking at the wrong player. But give me a guy that can hit, fight, provide a physical presence, protection for his team-mate, play a regular shift and chip in 20 goals -- that's gold. Look at how effective Komarov is. Biggs is a bigger, better version, that can fight.

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02-17-2013, 01:47 PM
  #49
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After the first, Rupert has an assist.

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02-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #50
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Look at the Kessel line before JVR started playing with them..
True, that line was pretty bad with soft hands Lupul

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