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02-17-2013, 12:43 PM
  #126
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Some of the logical circles people are putting in this thread are ****ing ridiculous. Take off the youth goggles people.

Ice time has to be earned even moreso than given. Irving hasn't done that for pretty much two years, even in the AHL. So expecting management to have faith to keep him as a starter in the NHL while desperately trying to make the playoffs is a fallacy.

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02-17-2013, 12:46 PM
  #127
Mike Jones
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Management made it specifically clear when they picked up MacDonald that it was going to be a competition between him and Irving. They
If this is true (And not simply management spin) then they are delusional and in worse shape than I thought. Irving should have been given the clear shot until Kipper gets back with MacDonald around to clean up the messes and give him the odd night off. THAT is what MacDonald is good at.

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02-17-2013, 12:48 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
Some of the logical circles people are putting in this thread are ****ing ridiculous. Take off the youth goggles people.

Ice time has to be earned even moreso than given. Irving hasn't done that for pretty much two years, even in the AHL. So expecting management to have faith to keep him as a starter in the NHL while desperately trying to make the playoffs is a fallacy.
It's more of a spiral really. A player needs time and opportunity in order to prove themselves and so far Irving has yet to receive enough time. And I don't think it's asking for the moon to suggest that he needs at least one or two more games in this current audition - especially when there's nothing on the line playoff-wise.

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02-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #129
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It's more of a spiral really. A player needs time and opportunity in order to prove themselves and so far Irving has yet to receive enough time. And I don't think it's asking for the moon to suggest that he needs at least one or two more games in this current audition - especially when there's nothing on the line playoff-wise.
There's absolutely no way of knowing if management is going to call him up in 48 hours if they don't like how Taylor looks in our back to back situation.

The amount of flack this move is getting is beyond ridiculous.

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02-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #130
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There's absolutely no way of knowing if management is going to call him up in 48 hours if they don't like how Taylor looks in our back to back situation.

The amount of flack this move is getting is beyond ridiculous.
Why didn't they give Taylor a look when he was up here last time?

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02-17-2013, 01:00 PM
  #131
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If this is true (And not simply management spin) then they are delusional and in worse shape than I thought. Irving should have been given the clear shot until Kipper gets back with MacDonald around to clean up the messes and give him the odd night off. THAT is what MacDonald is good at.
How is management delusional? Its not like Kipper got injured and they panicked to get another goalie. They gave Irving a shot, then they find out Kipper's injury is more serious than they thought, and they start to wonder if they can depend on Irving to tide them over to when he's good to go? So to their luck they have the opportunity to get MacDonald off waivers. Once they got him they STILL went with Irving and what do you know he starts to struggle.. So I don't think this is bad management in anyway. If you blame the fact that it distracted Irving, well then he doesn't deserve the job, because he shouldn't be comfortable thinking that his job is safe.

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02-17-2013, 01:26 PM
  #132
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Why didn't they give Taylor a look when he was up here last time?
I have no idea. All I've heard is speculation that they didn't like what they saw in practice.

Far more likely it was simply that MacDonald became available and they were still giving Irving a shot.

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02-17-2013, 01:28 PM
  #133
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How is management delusional? Its not like Kipper got injured and they panicked to get another goalie. They gave Irving a shot, then they find out Kipper's injury is more serious than they thought, and they start to wonder if they can depend on Irving to tide them over to when he's good to go? So to their luck they have the opportunity to get MacDonald off waivers. Once they got him they STILL went with Irving and what do you know he starts to struggle.. So I don't think this is bad management in anyway. If you blame the fact that it distracted Irving, well then he doesn't deserve the job, because he shouldn't be comfortable thinking that his job is safe.
I didn't say anywhere (I don't think) that the MacDonald acquisition "distracted" Irving. I will say once again that fans and management are expecting way too much out of MacDonald. He's a decent acquisition but should be assigned a role for which he's suited.

I have also been saying that management has needlessly cut Irving's audition short. They could have at least given him a couple of more games. The Flames are going no where right now so why do they need to panic?

I will be interested to see how Taylor does. I'm not holding my breath, however.

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02-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
I have no idea. All I've heard is speculation that they didn't like what they saw in practice.

Far more likely it was simply that MacDonald became available and they were still giving Irving a shot.
Then why not keep Irving and give MacDonald a shot? Right now we have two unknowns at least we knew Irving could play decently if needed.

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02-17-2013, 01:34 PM
  #135
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Then why not keep Irving and give MacDonald a shot? Right now we have two unknowns at least we knew Irving could play decently if needed.
Exactly. Irving's played something like 5ish games in a row so there's no reason why he couldn't be given a break so that MacDonald could get a start or two.

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02-17-2013, 01:36 PM
  #136
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I didn't say anywhere (I don't think) that the MacDonald acquisition "distracted" Irving. I will say once again that fans and management are expecting way too much out of MacDonald. He's a decent acquisition but should be assigned a role for which he's suited.

I have been saying that management has needlessly cut his audition short. They could have at least given him a couple of more games. The Flames are going no where so why do they need to panic?

I will be interested to see how Taylor does. I'm not holding my breath, however.
I didn't accuse you of saying that, Im saying if that happened to be the reason Irving struggled after MacDonald was claimed then thats his problem. As for saying the Flames are going no where, that remains to be seen. The Red Wings have 14GP with 16 Pts, the Flames have 12GP with 11 Pts. If the Flames win their next two games they are 1 point behind the 8th place Red Wings. The season is not over for the Flames, I'm not holding my breath but its not over. This is why they are doing all these shake ups, to find maybe something that will work, they currently sit 13th in the west with a little hope of turning things around, I can't blame them for trying.

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02-17-2013, 01:37 PM
  #137
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I have no idea. All I've heard is speculation that they didn't like what they saw in practice.
Where have you heard this?

The Silvertips Irving played for were a well-run and highly disciplined team. I can't see Kevin Constantine putting up with bad habits from his goalies. Something must have rubbed off on Irving.

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02-17-2013, 01:40 PM
  #138
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This is why they are doing all these shake ups, to find maybe something that will work, they currently sit 13th in the west with a little hope of turning things around, I can't blame them for trying.
Neither can I but giving a young goalie a full and proper audition is definitely trying and the Flames quite frankly didn't try hard enough. What the team is doing is verging on panic and while that may qualify as trying I'd rather see them let a young goalie flop around for a few more games.

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02-17-2013, 01:40 PM
  #139
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Where have you heard this?

The Silvertips Irving played for were a well-run and highly disciplined team. I can't see Kevin Constantine putting up with bad habits from his goalies. Something must have rubbed off on Irving.
He was talking about Taylor, not Irving

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02-17-2013, 01:42 PM
  #140
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He was talking about Taylor, not Irving
Ooops. You're right. My bad.

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02-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #141
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Brust looking over his shoulder already, let in 7 lastnight. Does Irving start today? I'd think so.....His ball to run with.....

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02-17-2013, 02:25 PM
  #142
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I just want to see some wins regardless of who is in net.

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02-17-2013, 02:34 PM
  #143
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Brust looking over his shoulder already, let in 7 lastnight. Does Irving start today? I'd think so.....His ball to run with.....
I think it will depend on travel and when Irving was able to join the team. But ideally yes, Irving goes.

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02-17-2013, 02:37 PM
  #144
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It's more of a spiral really. A player needs time and opportunity in order to prove themselves and so far Irving has yet to receive enough time. And I don't think it's asking for the moon to suggest that he needs at least one or two more games in this current audition - especially when there's nothing on the line playoff-wise.
You may feel this way, but the fact remains that the Flames are 5 pts out of a playoff spot with games in hand. Barring a disastrous set of injuries no management team in that situation would be writing off the season already.

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02-17-2013, 04:02 PM
  #145
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ppl need to calm down

we have better goailes in the system that i'd rather develope/use

Brossiot
Ortio (having a good season overseas will likely be given 1 more try at AHL level)
Gillies (Probably the 1st pick going forward)
Ramo (hopefully he will be as good as feaster thinks he can be)

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02-17-2013, 04:45 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Devilspuppet666 View Post
ppl need to calm down

we have better goailes in the system that i'd rather develope/use

Brossiot
Ortio (having a good season overseas will likely be given 1 more try at AHL level)
Gillies (Probably the 1st pick going forward)
Ramo (hopefully he will be as good as feaster thinks he can be)
I'd imagine if we let go of Irving, it will be Kipper/Ramo tandem, and in the future we will see Gillies be our 1.

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02-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Devilspuppet666 View Post
ppl need to calm down

we have better goailes in the system that i'd rather develope/use

Brossiot
Ortio (having a good season overseas will likely be given 1 more try at AHL level)
Gillies (Probably the 1st pick going forward)
Ramo (hopefully he will be as good as feaster thinks he can be)
We may have better prospects but why not try to develop Irving? That is like saying we have Sven no need to try and develop other wingers.
As for our prospects
Brossiot - has great numbers but is playing on a great team and is 2-3 years away
Ortio - wasn't good his last time here may not translate to nhl size ice
Gillies - Has great numbers but is on a defensive team and is 3-5 years away
Ramo - is a top goalie in the khl but there is no guarantee he will come to North America.

So developing Irving hurts none of our other prospects and outside of Ramo none will be ready for the nhl for at least a year most likely 2.

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02-18-2013, 02:30 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
We may have better prospects but why not try to develop Irving? That is like saying we have Sven no need to try and develop other wingers.
As for our prospects
Brossiot - has great numbers but is playing on a great team and is 2-3 years away
Ortio - wasn't good his last time here may not translate to nhl size ice
Gillies - Has great numbers but is on a defensive team and is 3-5 years away
Ramo - is a top goalie in the khl but there is no guarantee he will come to North America.

So developing Irving hurts none of our other prospects and outside of Ramo none will be ready for the nhl for at least a year most likely 2.
Brossoit will graduate to the AHL next year, so technically Irving could hurt his development.

I'm a big Irving supporter but I don't think he will be back with the organization next year. I think Ramo will probably come across and be the backup to Kipper. Then either Taylor or Brust will sign an AHL deal to mentor Brossoit

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02-18-2013, 11:09 AM
  #149
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It's clear that slow developing prospects have little currency value right now in the NHL, re:Loktionov, Ellerby, Tangradi, etc.

Feaster likely has tried to move Irving for a pick (5th or 6th) but could only get a 7th for Karlsson.

Not sure why there is this huge uproar about him and Jones. They are "meh" players, easily replaceable.

As for goaltending we could conceivably have Raamo, Brossoit and Ortio in Cgy/Abbotsford next year followed by Gillies the year after.

Irving is in his last season with the Flames organization. Not a big deal

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02-18-2013, 12:40 PM
  #150
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Brossoit will graduate to the AHL next year, so technically Irving could hurt his development.

I'm a big Irving supporter but I don't think he will be back with the organization next year. I think Ramo will probably come across and be the backup to Kipper. Then either Taylor or Brust will sign an AHL deal to mentor Brossoit
How does developing Iring this year hurt Brossiot either Irving will be the backup next year or gone.

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