HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-17-2013, 07:16 AM
  #126
Velociraptor
Nucks future 1C??
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,666
vCash: 500
Sorry for my tardiness, didn't bother sending a list because Roenick was my guy. While I was out last night I didn't expect to be up.

Marty Pavelich, LW


Velociraptor is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 08:31 AM
  #127
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Sorry for my tardiness, didn't bother sending a list because Roenick was my guy. While I was out last night I didn't expect to be up.

Marty Pavelich, LW

Marty Pavelich is an outstanding defensive player (one of my all-time favourite). I would like to read more about his offensive contribution in comparision to guys like Claude Provost, Craig Ramsay etc ... It would be interesting to see where he ranks compare to other elite defensive players.

EagleBelfour is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 08:50 AM
  #128
Velociraptor
Nucks future 1C??
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Marty Pavelich is an outstanding defensive player (one of my all-time favourite). I would like to read more about his offensive contribution in comparision to guys like Claude Provost, Craig Ramsay etc ... It would be interesting to see where he ranks compare to other elite defensive players.
I'll do my best to try and come up with an offensive comparison between them all. To distinguish where he stands in proximity to other defensive forwards of his caliber.

Velociraptor is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 09:38 AM
  #129
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mission Hill
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,989
vCash: 500
edit


Last edited by BubbaBoot: 02-17-2013 at 09:39 AM. Reason: not complete
BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 10:40 AM
  #130
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mission Hill
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Marty Pavelich is an outstanding defensive player (one of my all-time favourite). I would like to read more about his offensive contribution in comparision to guys like Claude Provost, Craig Ramsay etc ... It would be interesting to see where he ranks compare to other elite defensive players.
Regular Season
Player gms yrs G A TP PIMs G/gm A/gm PP SH
Marty Pavelich 634 1947-57 93 159 252454 .15 .25 --
Ralph Backstrom 1032 1956-73 278 361 639 386 .27 .35 25*4*
Backstrom [WHA] 304 1973-77 100 153 253 104 .33 .50 203
Bob Pulford + 1079 1956-72 281 362 643792 .26 .34 33*17*
Claude Provost 1005 1955-70 254 335 589 469 .25 .33 21*6*
Bobby Rousseau 942 1960-75 245 458 703 359 .26 .49 51*5*
Ed Westfall # 1226 1961-79 231394 625 544 .19 .3228*26*
Dean Prentice 1378 1952-74 391469 860344 .28 .34 53* 6*
Guy Carbonneau 1318 1980-00 260 403 663 820 .20 .31 1232
Esa Tikkanen 877 1985-99 244386 6301077 .28 .44 5929
Bob Gainey + 1160 1973-89 239262 501 585 .21 .23 1420
Craig Ramsay 1070 1971-85 252420 672 201 .24 .39 1727
* Incomplete data. Records weren't kept until 1963-64 season.
+ Hall of Fame.
# also played defense

Playoffs
Player gms CUPS G A TP PIMs G/gm A/gm PP SH
Marty Pavelich 91 4 1315 28 74 .14.16 --
Ralph Backstrom 116 6 2732 59 68 .23 .28 1*1*
Backstrom [WHA] 38 0 1018 2812 .26 .47 00
Bob Pulford + 89 4 2526 51126 .28 .29 0*0*
Claude Provost 126 9 2538 63 86 .20 .30 1*0*
Bobby Rousseau 128 4 2757 84 69 .21 .45 2*1*
Ed Westfall # 95 2 2237 59 41 .23 .393*8*
Dean Prentice 54 0 1317 30 38 .24 .31 2*0*
Guy Carbonneau 231 3 3855 93 161 .16 .24 06
Esa Tikkanen 186 5 7260 132275 .39 .32 193
Bob Gainey + 182 5 2548 73 151 .14 .26 03
Craig Ramsay 89 0 2226 48 27 .19 .35 2 2
* Incomplete data. Records weren't kept until 1963-64 season.
+ Hall of Fame.
# also played defense

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #131
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Montreal select Jeremy Roenick , C
Big Roenick fan.

People who didn't see him in the early-mid 90s when he was putting up those big seasons while crashing and banging really missed a great hockey player imo.

BraveCanadian is online now  
Old
02-17-2013, 11:09 AM
  #132
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Shocking pick, IMO. I just don't think Boyle is sound enough defensively to be a good top 4 guy at this level. Great puck mover and quarterback, though.
He is one of the best PP QBs left (which I needed) and a rare right handed shot at that.

I guess I should have picked a guy from 1910 with a few quotes about how he was a defensive stalwart?

The guy has been playing 23-27 minutes a game for a decade in the NHL. Yes, initially he was somewhat sheltered and more of a powerplay specialist. Lately not so much.

Like many defensemen he has been getting better defensively with age. (not that anyone is going to mistake him for a defensive defenseman at any time, but he eats up minutes and outscores the opposition too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011-2012 San Jose Sharks Season Review: Dan Boyle

As much press as Joe Thornton has received for his evolution as a player the last two seasons (including from this very site), another of the Sharks' elder statesmen has also seen his role radically transformed over the same span of time. When he first arrived from Tampa Bay, Dan Boyle played with fellow ex-Bolt Brad Lukowich on what was essentially the team's third pairing from a matchups perspective, with Boyle heavily sheltered to the tune of a negative quality of competition rating (meaning he almost exclusively faced opposing bottom-six forwards) and a 56% offensive zone start rate.

As Rob Blake aged and finally retired, Boyle was increasingly used with Douglas Murray as the team's shutdown pairing, a role the two were used in for pretty much the entirety of the 2010-11 season, before finally being paired with Vlasic this year as both defensemen finished top 30 league-wide in quality of competition among blueliners. It's impressive that a d-man in his thirties was willing and able to go from a power play specialist with a protected role at evens to playing some of the toughest minutes in the league.
http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/6/13/...view-dan-boyle

BraveCanadian is online now  
Old
02-17-2013, 12:07 PM
  #133
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
He is one of the best PP QBs left (which I needed) and a rare right handed shot at that.

I guess I should have picked a guy from 1910 with a few quotes about how he was a defensive stalwart?

The guy has been playing 23-27 minutes a game for a decade in the NHL. Yes, initially he was somewhat sheltered and more of a powerplay specialist. Lately not so much.

Like many defensemen he has been getting better defensively with age. (not that anyone is going to mistake him for a defensive defenseman at any time, but he eats up minutes and outscores the opposition too)


http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/6/13/...view-dan-boyle
I was think of Dan Boyle as #5 and to use on the PP but I dont think he is bad on a second pairing unit, I just happen to think McCrimmon and Hollett is better.

Hobnobs is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 12:12 PM
  #134
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Big Roenick fan.

People who didn't see him in the early-mid 90s when he was putting up those big seasons while crashing and banging really missed a great hockey player imo.
His vs2 stats seems to indicate that he actually was almost as good in PHX and 1st year of PHI than he was in CHI.He had a 3-4 years hole in the middle of his career surrounded by two 3-4 very good years.

Yeah , Roenick was awesome , he had a great style.He was also a very good playoff player despite not winning the cup.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 12:16 PM
  #135
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
With Pick 304 Brave Canadian (Guelph Platers) select Dan Boyle, defenseman.

That makes me on the clock, I'll have my pick within the next few minutes. Looking over a few guys.
I completely missed that earlier , hopefully Boyle will get more love this time around.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #136
SchultzSquared
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Kenora picks Ken Hodge RW

SchultzSquared is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 01:03 PM
  #137
Modo
Global Moderator
Mo'Benn
 
Modo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,562
vCash: 50
Dawson City will take Wendel Clark, LW, and Kirk Muller, C/LW.

__________________
If you're telekinetic and you know it, clap my hands!
Modo is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 01:46 PM
  #138
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
Dan Boyle is better pick than Gonchar, and is better suited to play on 2nd line

DoMakc is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #139
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
Dan Boyle is better pick than Gonchar, and is better suited to play on 2nd line

Norris voting records:
Gonchar - 4th, 4th, 4th 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th
Boyle - 4th, 5th, 6th

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #140
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Norris voting records:
Gonchar - 4th, 4th, 4th 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th
Boyle - 4th, 5th, 6th
I would definitely rank Boyle above Gonchar as far as defense goes though.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:12 PM
  #141
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I would definitely rank Boyle above Gonchar as far as defense goes though.
Equal, IMO. Gonch is soft while Boyle is more of a rover - but they're both none factors in their own end at this level IMO, especially pinned against the 1st lines.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #142
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Equal, IMO. Gonch is soft while Boyle is more of a rover - but they're both none factors in their own end at this level IMO, especially pinned against the 1st lines.
I disagree , I think Boyle has proven he could be decent in his own end in San Jose.

I'm not saying he's better than Gonchar overall , but he's a little bit more reliable defensively imo.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:27 PM
  #143
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I disagree , I think Boyle has proven he could be decent in his own end in San Jose.

I'm not saying he's better than Gonchar overall , but he's a little bit more reliable defensively imo.
Both Boyle and Gonchar have become somewhat reliable in their 30s.

Is Boyle better than Gonchar defensively? Maybe, but who cares? Their overall games are not even close.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:38 PM
  #144
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Both Boyle and Gonchar have become somewhat reliable in their 30s.

Is Boyle better than Gonchar defensively? Maybe, but who cares? Their overall games are not even close.
I'm sorry , but looking quickly at their stats they seem to be pretty close actually.Gonchar has more years so he's definitely better but I wouldn't say ''not even close''.

Since you said ''overall'' game , I wonder what does Gonchar brings that Boyle don't except marginally superior offense?

(I understand Gonchar had more years , but this isn't really a ''part'' of his overall game you talked about)

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:43 PM
  #145
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I'm sorry , but looking quickly at their stats they seem to be pretty close actually.Gonchar has more years so he's definitely better but I wouldn't say ''not even close''.

Since you said ''overall'' game , I wonder what does Gonchar brings that Boyle don't except 3 or 4 more years on his resume (which is a lot , I admit) ?
They bring pretty much exactly the same skillset, but Gonchar was a better offensive player, while Boyle was marginally the better defensive player. I wouldn't feel fully comfortable with having both of them in my top-4, although if I had to choose I would prefer Boyle. Phil Housley is pretty much in the same situation of those guys, although the spectrum of offense-defence is even worst. Better offensively than Gonchar, but also worst defensively.

EagleBelfour is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:49 PM
  #146
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I'm sorry , but looking quickly at their stats they seem to be pretty close actually.Gonchar has more years so he's definitely better but I wouldn't say ''not even close''.
Refer to the Norris voting I posted above. It is "not even close".

Quote:
Since you said ''overall'' game , I wonder what does Gonchar brings that Boyle don't except more years on his resume and marginally superior offense? (I understand that's already a lot and this is why he's taken earlier , no problem there)
He brings quite a bit more offense. Boyle has been consistently good offensively, but he has never brought the level of elite offensive production that Gonchar did in his prime.

Points among Defensemen:
Gonchar - 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th
Boyle - 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:50 PM
  #147
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
They bring pretty much exactly the same skillset, but Gonchar was a better offensive player, while Boyle was marginally the better defensive player. I wouldn't feel fully comfortable with having both of them in my top-4, although if I had to choose I would prefer Boyle. Phil Housley is pretty much in the same situation of those guys, although the spectrum of offense-defence is even worst. Better offensively than Gonchar, but also worst defensively.
Yeah , Gonchar does have more years of very good offense compare to Boyle , but as far as ''Overall Game'' I would give it to Boyle.He is a bit stronger defensively and definitely a better leader than Gonchar ever was.That doesn't mean Boyle had a better career but it means he had a better overall game , which is what Dreakmur tried to argue in favor of Gonchar.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:53 PM
  #148
Rob Scuderi
Registered User
 
Rob Scuderi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Yeah , Gonchar does have more years of very good offense compare to Boyle , but as far as ''Overall Game'' I would give it to Boyle.He is a bit stronger defensively and definitely a better leader than Gonchar ever was.That doesn't mean Boyle had a better career but it means he had a better overall game , which is what Dreakmur tried to argue in favor of Gonchar.
Gonchar wore an A in Pittsburgh and gets a lot of credit for his work mentoring Malkin. I definitely wouldn't value him as a leader in an all-time sense though. But would you for Boyle either?

Rob Scuderi is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:57 PM
  #149
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Refer to the Norris voting I posted above. It is "not even close".



He brings quite a bit more offense. Boyle has been consistently good offensively, but he has never brought the level of elite offensive production that Gonchar did in his prime.

Points among Defensemen:
Gonchar - 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th
Boyle - 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th
Yeah , Gonchar was better offensively no question.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #150
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Gonchar wore an A in Pittsburgh and gets a lot of credit for his work mentoring Malkin. I definitely wouldn't value him as a leader in an all-time sense though. But would you for Boyle either?
Absolutely , Boyle is known as a good leader.

He isn't a ATD captain or anything , but he is far superior to Gonchar in that department as far as I'm concerned.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.