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Do you fire Laviolette? (Philadelphia Daily News article dated March 12, 2013)

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02-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #551
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For awhile I was on the bring in Tocchet bandwagon if they did fire Lavy but now i think I want someone who wasnt in the "Flyer family" orginally. Same with the GM
This organization needs a whole new fresh outlook how to build a team from the ground up. From rebuilding the prospect pool on up.

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02-17-2013, 01:54 PM
  #552
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the senile old man who owns the team wont fire Holmgren. He will fire the guy that wasnt orginally in the "Flyers family"
Thats the "Flyer way"
Absolutely correct. This antiquated way of thinking of "protecting our own" has hurt the franchise more than it's helped. They do it from the top to the bottom as well. Clarke and Homer as GM and Barber in a coaching role are just recent examples. And let's not forgot the countless players that have gotten their last shot in the league out the Flyers good graces. I understand they want to be a tight knit group, but enough is enough. Had they fired Clarke earlier, they could have Dean Lombardi as the GM. I guarantee they wouldn't be bleeding assets on a yearly basis if that were the case.

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02-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #553
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Homer built a good team
I think Homer built a YOUNG team, one that certainly has potential. It's still a team with flaws and needs work.

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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
but he didn't build the right team for this coach.
Considering he wiped the slate clean for this coach, I find it hard to believe he didn't make moves with either Laviolette in mind, or without input from Laviolette. How do you hit the reset button in defense of a coach and then not try to tailor your personnel toward his system? That alone is sign that we have a buffoon of a GM.

That being said, I don't think any one coach brought in here would turn this team on its head and march through the playoffs.

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02-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #554
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I think if you are going to fire Homer, you wait until the end of the season. If you are going to fire the coach, you do it sooner, rather than later. The only reason I would fire Homer mid-season would be if he wants to trade for the now but the rest of the org. wants to stand pat or trade for the future or vice versa.

I wouldn't have a problem with firing Lavy, but it is not something I would campaign for.

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02-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #555
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I wonder what the teams expectations were, I know they were to do better than this but, losing. JVR, Carle, jagr, expecting guys like schenn, voracek, couturier, read to all step up... I mean the young guys had good success last year because they weren't thrown into the fire, they had a role and were eased into it, this year they re expected to carry the load.

Injuries have not helped either.

I don't think any coach could be winning games like some fans expect.. But I at least expect them to compete, and last night was a disgrace to flyers hockey, not skating not battling, no energy, they looked like they don't care and that's what is the most concerning


Just another reason they miss pronger.... He was like a second coach on the bench and you could bet he would be screaming on the bench at an effort like last night

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02-17-2013, 02:06 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
you are never going to admit that homer is the one blame are you? until he's gone this team is going no where, why is it so hard for you to understand? because these other players will win cups if they get traded, i dont care, i would rather risk that, then seeing this team in dumps for years, i dont know how you want something like this for years.
so your solution is what? oh thats right trade away couturier, voracek, simmonds and schenn plus picks for the bobby ryans of the league cause those young guys are "nothing more then 3rd or 4th liners" in your book. what about the holes you create by making all these trades? we have a terrible farm system now because of all the trading of draft picks, yes absolutely that's Holmgren's fault. but i don't see how you're solution makes this team better going forward. if we go about things your way the team will be in the "dumps" for years not by holding on to your quality young players. but i guess that's where we differ, i don't see those players as 3rd of 4th (cause they're not).

and where are you getting the bold text from? i never said that.

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02-17-2013, 02:07 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Absolutely correct. This antiquated way of thinking of "protecting our own" has hurt the franchise more than it's helped. They do it from the top to the bottom as well. Clarke and Homer as GM and Barber in a coaching role are just recent examples. And let's not forgot the countless players that have gotten their last shot in the league out the Flyers good graces. I understand they want to be a tight knit group, but enough is enough. Had they fired Clarke earlier, they could have Dean Lombardi as the GM. I guarantee they wouldn't be bleeding assets on a yearly basis if that were the case.
But don' think for a minute that he would have been allowed a slow build like hedid in LA. Hell LAST YEAR people were screaming for his head. Instead, there was a coaching change...and then lightning in a bottle.

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02-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
I wonder what the teams expectations were, I know they were to do better than this but, losing. JVR, Carle, jagr, expecting guys like schenn, voracek, couturier, read to all step up... I mean the young guys had good success last year because they weren't thrown into the fire, they had a role and were eased into it, this year they re expected to carry the load.

Injuries have not helped either.

I don't think any coach could be winning games like some fans expect.. But I at least expect them to compete, and last night was a disgrace to flyers hockey, not skating not battling, no energy, they looked like they don't care and that's what is the most concerning
I don't buy that. These guys aren't in some elevated role compared to last year. The young forwards are all expected to contribute the same way that they did last year and the offense would be fine. In fact, guys like Read and Simmonds are playing even better than they were last year. The forwards are struggling because the guys like Giroux and Briere, who were supposed to be the leaders, aren't getting it done. It also doesn't help that they have an atrocious powerplay and no Hartnell for Giroux to play with.

I agree with the effort level though. I was embarrassing to watch them get toyed with last night.

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02-17-2013, 02:12 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
But don' think for a minute that he would have been allowed a slow build like hedid in LA. Hell LAST YEAR people were screaming for his head. Instead, there was a coaching change...and then lightning in a bottle.
Holmgren has a lot of pressure from higher up to win "now" every year... Mr snider wants to see his team parade down broad street one more time and who can blame him, he spends to win. That's why you see so many draft picks trying to bring in players to help win.

I will be surprised if they just ride this out with no move, not because they shouldn't because in the long run it would likely help, but because that's just no how the flyers work

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02-17-2013, 02:14 PM
  #560
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I don't buy that. These guys aren't in some elevated role compared to last year. The young forwards are all expected to contribute the same way that they did last year and the offense would be fine. In fact, guys like Read and Simmonds are playing even better than they were last year. The forwards are struggling because the guys like Giroux and Briere, who were supposed to be the leaders, aren't getting it done. It also doesn't help that they have an atrocious powerplay and no Hartnell for Giroux to play with.

I agree with the effort level though. I was embarrassing to watch them get toyed with last night.
agreed. Schenn has obviously stepped it up too. the problem isnt with the young guys it's with injuries and the underachieving vets.

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02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
But don' think for a minute that he would have been allowed a slow build like hedid in LA. Hell LAST YEAR people were screaming for his head. Instead, there was a coaching change...and then lightning in a bottle.
He wouldn't have been given six years, no. But, he would have a set plan and kept a relatively similar roster as they built towards a cup contender. You can reinvent yourself as a team every other season and expect to just compete. Guys grow as a core and then you add some pieces as you think you're getting closer to a cup run. LA certainly caught lightning in a bottle, but they've also had a set plan ever since Lombardi got there. Homer just throws **** against the wall and hopes it sticks. I love the Flyers for their aggression in trying to always get better, but sometimes a more conservative route would lead to more success.

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02-17-2013, 02:19 PM
  #562
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agreed. Schenn has obviously stepped it up too. the problem isnt with the young guys it's with injuries and the underachieving vets.
The injuries more than anything have been huge because we have no organizational depth. Every team deals with them, the premiere franchises have guys that can step in in a pinch while still going back to develop at the AHL level when the regulars get back. How many years in a row are the Flyers going to rely on the Liljas and Fosters of the world when the rest of the league has seemingly given up on them? Look no further than Homer's history of blowing assets as a cause for that.

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02-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #563
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agreed. Schenn has obviously stepped it up too. the problem isnt with the young guys it's with injuries and the underachieving vets.
Schenn hasn't looked very good to me, the only one I think has played well it matt read, the rest I was really expecting more

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02-17-2013, 02:24 PM
  #564
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I wouldn't call Hartnell and Meszaros a reason why were losing. Any team should have the depth to deal with losing a top six winger and a guy that's probably your fifth best d-man.

Injuries are a cop-out.

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02-17-2013, 02:27 PM
  #565
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I wouldn't call Hartnell and Meszaros a reason why were losing. Any team should have the depth to deal with losing a top six winger and a guy that's probably your fifth best d-man.

Injuries are a cop-out.
Not the "reason" at all, but missing them hurts at this point, especially hartnell... He is valuable to a number of facets our team is struggling with

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02-17-2013, 02:27 PM
  #566
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Schenn hasn't looked very good to me, the only one I think has played well it matt read, the rest I was really expecting more
You were expecting too much of him to begin with then. He's a sophomore still learning the game at the NHL level. There have been glimpses of sheer brilliance from B. Schenn this season. When he puts it all together, he's going to be a 30 goal scorer in this league with anywhere from 60-80 points a season.

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02-17-2013, 02:28 PM
  #567
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The injuries more than anything have been huge because we have no organizational depth. Every team deals with them, the premiere franchises have guys that can step in in a pinch while still going back to develop at the AHL level when the regulars get back. How many years in a row are the Flyers going to rely on the Liljas and Fosters of the world when the rest of the league has seemingly given up on them? Look no further than Homer's history of blowing assets as a cause for that.
i agree, if Holmgren could pull his head out of his ass for a year or two and stop with the trading of the draft picks i think this team would be ok in that regard. we do have some young talented forwards coming up soon but they really need to concentrate on drafting d. with this deep draft not trading any picks to try and salvage the season would go a long way to fixing our situation of relying on guys who have no business playing in this league anymore.

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Schenn hasn't looked very good to me, the only one I think has played well it matt read, the rest I was really expecting more
Schenn had a bad start to the season as did Voracek but they really put it together and i would say have been our best players over the past 4 or 5 games. overall, yes read has been our most consistent player but Schenn has really turned it up recently offensively (9pt in last 9 games and 11 in 16). he's only 21 so to expect more from him when he's on pace for like a 60 pt season (prorated) is kinda asking a lot. yes he could work on doing more in his own zone but he also leads all forwards in hits so it's not like he's not providing for the team. all i'm saying is that read, schenn, voracek, simmonds and couturier (he's only 20) shouldn't be considered the reason we are struggling offensively right now.


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02-17-2013, 02:30 PM
  #568
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Schenn hasn't looked very good to me, the only one I think has played well it matt read, the rest I was really expecting more
I agree. Brayden hasn't been very good, he's becoming more effective offensively, but still is prone to defensive lapses, turnovers, chasing the puck, etc.

Read and Voracek have been surprisingly good. Jake is finally playing with some swagger in the offensive zone, which was really the only thing holding him back before.

Couturier has been putrid though. Very weak on the puck, nearly invisible offensively, less physical than last year. He shows flashes. His spinning pass to McGinn in the slot yesterday was very impressive, but physically he just can't make a difference, he's too weak, and he's not a strong skater. Still think he'll end up being a very good player, but it won't be this year.

It's like a 50/50 mix of veterans and young guys contributing and not contributing on this team. And it makes me think they're tuning Lavi out if he can't get more to buy in.

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02-17-2013, 02:40 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I wouldn't call Hartnell and Meszaros a reason why were losing. Any team should have the depth to deal with losing a top six winger and a guy that's probably your fifth best d-man.

Injuries are a cop-out.
when mez is healthy he may only be our 5th best defender but hes still a quality 2nd pairing guy that can move the puck better then anyone else back there not named kimmo. yes injuries is a cop-out but if giroux and briere were producing more we wouldn't be having this conversation, we'd be able to go a month and a half without bringing up hartnells injury. so i think its a reason that is being magnified by other struggles.

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02-17-2013, 03:14 PM
  #570
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There are far too many problems with this team to fix. Lavi obviously won't be able to fix them all and its going to take some creative personnel management to add some effective players into the lineup.

The era of Talbot, Fedotenko, and Knuble has to end as soon as possible. You can't really put too much blame on Knuble because he's played far beyond expectations for someone his age. But Talbot and Fedotenko are black holes and Knuble ain't exactly helping the cause. They haven't delivered on anything that's been expected of them. They suck on the PK, they can't take faceoffs, and they provide zero energy. They can't even play dump and chase. There seems to be an abundance of role players in this league who they flyers could pick off the waiver wire and I bet that replacing these guys would do a world of good for the team. There are plenty of untalented players who get by because they bring it 100% every game. Right now, few Flyers are having that influence.

Of course, it wouldn't make us a playoff team but work ethic is contagious. And right now, this team has no work ethic. And this has been apparent since Lavi has been coach and not being able to play 60 minute games seems to have finally caught up to them.

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02-17-2013, 03:19 PM
  #571
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so your solution is what? oh thats right trade away couturier, voracek, simmonds and schenn plus picks for the bobby ryans of the league cause those young guys are "nothing more then 3rd or 4th liners" in your book. what about the holes you create by making all these trades? we have a terrible farm system now because of all the trading of draft picks, yes absolutely that's Holmgren's fault. but i don't see how you're solution makes this team better going forward. if we go about things your way the team will be in the "dumps" for years not by holding on to your quality young players. but i guess that's where we differ, i don't see those players as 3rd of 4th (cause they're not).

and where are you getting the bold text from? i never said that.
if you look the way this team is playing, you really think they will be cup contenders with just changing coaches? next year or year after?

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02-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Holmgren has a lot of pressure from higher up to win "now" every year... Mr snider wants to see his team parade down broad street one more time and who can blame him, he spends to win. That's why you see so many draft picks trying to bring in players to help win.

I will be surprised if they just ride this out with no move, not because they shouldn't because in the long run it would likely help, but because that's just no how the flyers work
Unfortunately for Snider there was a lockout and you can't buy Stanley cups any longer.

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02-17-2013, 03:26 PM
  #573
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if you look the way this team is playing, you really think they will be cup contenders with just changing coaches? next year or year after?
new system, a high quality d-man from the draft (there are plenty not just Jones) and a FA acquisition like Perry after a Briere amnesty and absolutely i think they'll be contenders next year or the following. all the young guys will have the experience under their belts and will be that much stronger/better for it.

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02-17-2013, 03:29 PM
  #574
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new system, a high quality d-man from the draft (there are plenty not just Jones) and a FA acquisition like Perry after a Briere amnesty and absolutely i think they'll be contenders. all the young guys will have another year under their belts and will be that much stronger/better for it.
Yup. This team is two pieces and some experience from being a future contender. I would even argue that they don't necessarily need a Perry type for Giroux to play with. They do need a defenseman that's capable of filling the void left by Pronger.

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02-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #575
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I can't remember, with the amnesty, he does get his full pay, right? I'm sure he could be signed elsewhere, but would you think he might retire if we did buy him out? The thing is, we're going to have to go up against the Pens for the Perry sweepstakes. Mainly because they need a winger WAY more than we do.

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