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Foligno vs Kassian: No Hodge

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:15 AM
  #51
Mergus
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I'll say it again, Foligno's offensive abilities are vastly underrated in these parts. Some of the passes he has made, even the ones not converted, have been sick!

I wouldn't be shocked in the least if he ended up the better player offensively...

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02-12-2013, 07:48 PM
  #52
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kassian had a good spurt of a few games and has done nothing. foligno had a bigger spurt of points. kassian had points with the sedins only. and I said that here and everyone said "the sedins arent even that good anymore"
disagree.

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02-13-2013, 02:45 AM
  #53
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by thekenneth View Post
kassian had a good spurt of a few games and has done nothing. foligno had a bigger spurt of points. kassian had points with the sedins only. and I said that here and everyone said "the sedins arent even that good anymore"
disagree.
Incorrect.

Kass has continued to play well. His ice time is less playing on the 3rd/4th lines. He makes things happen although they dont always show up on the scoresheet.

Burrows was put with the Sedins to try to spark them as they have been sub par by their standards so far.

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02-13-2013, 10:00 AM
  #54
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Foligno and Kassian are two completely different players. Kassian is tough. He hits, he fights, he's intimidating. Foligno is more comparable to Stafford. He coasts, he's lazy, he's non-physical, he lets teammates get run and cheapshotted right in front of him. This is what Ruff does to prospects like Foligno. The same would have happened to Kassian had he not been traded. But as it stands, Foligno and Kassian are two different types of players.

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02-13-2013, 10:12 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
Foligno and Kassian are two completely different players. Kassian is tough. He hits, he fights, he's intimidating. Foligno is more comparable to Stafford. He coasts, he's lazy, he's non-physical, he lets teammates get run and cheapshotted right in front of him. This is what Ruff does to prospects like Foligno. The same would have happened to Kassian had he not been traded. But as it stands, Foligno and Kassian are two different types of players.
Nope to the bolded...

Admittedly, he has been caught coasting. I wonder if he is fighting a nagging injury.

I do not like him on the powerplay. Last night, he could not obstruct the view of Anderson nearly well enough and he is not creative enough with the puck.

He tried to start a fight behind the play to give the Sabres a spark but Methot didnt go. He lit up Gonchar twice.

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02-13-2013, 10:34 AM
  #56
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Nope to the bolded part.
happened with gerbe and Ennis. I saw the replay with methot, he definitely didn't try to start a fight, but even if he did that's not saying much. Methot's not a fighter. Kassian's fighting Clowe and Eager and Sestito. Foligno's gonna fight Methot?

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02-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
everything up until last year's start suggested Kassian would be the better player. I myself testify to that and believing in that. After watching Foligno all year last year and for his time in the A this year, ontop of watching Kassian play for a good chunk of time last year I am in no way shape or form sold on Kassian being the far-and-away better player.

Goal scoring is likely up for grabs still as its too soon to tell, however in terms of overall game in terms of defensive ability, leadership intangibles, work ethic, shot blocking, PKing etc Foligno is at least currently a much more polished player.
With either one goal scoring will be a direct product of who they play with and their PP time.

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02-13-2013, 02:18 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
happened with gerbe and Ennis. I saw the replay with methot, he definitely didn't try to start a fight, but even if he did that's not saying much. Methot's not a fighter. Kassian's fighting Clowe and Eager and Sestito. Foligno's gonna fight Methot?
Foligno has gone with plenty of people throughout his hockey career. Kassian takes himself out of the game for 5 minutes with a fight with Ben Eager? Foligno knows when to pick his spots. He knew Methot hit Vanek last game and took the name. He isnt going to fight a Tom Sestito who has like 11 career goals. And Kassian lost to Clowe...

They both are budding potential top 6 power forwards. Kassian will be the more physical prescence, but Foligno, to me, will be the leader on and off the ice. Think Kassian as looch, and Foligno as Iginla in terms of fighting. Iginla doesnt fight often, but when he does he does it because his team needs it. Lucic fights all the time, but he sometimes doesnt need to and his team gets hurt by him not being on the ice.

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02-14-2013, 12:16 AM
  #59
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Foligno has gone with plenty of people throughout his hockey career. Kassian takes himself out of the game for 5 minutes with a fight with Ben Eager? Foligno knows when to pick his spots. He knew Methot hit Vanek last game and took the name. He isnt going to fight a Tom Sestito who has like 11 career goals. And Kassian lost to Clowe...

They both are budding potential top 6 power forwards. Kassian will be the more physical prescence, but Foligno, to me, will be the leader on and off the ice. Think Kassian as looch, and Foligno as Iginla in terms of fighting. Iginla doesnt fight often, but when he does he does it because his team needs it. Lucic fights all the time, but he sometimes doesnt need to and his team gets hurt by him not being on the ice.


Kassian has been in how many fights this year? He hardly has an issue of being stupid enough to take himself out of the game.

Especially when you consider hes 1) young 2) has to make a name for himself.

Hes been exceptionally smart with his physical play when you consider the knock on him was his penchant for crossing the line.

Lucic needs to fight to be relevant. Kassian does not.

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02-14-2013, 01:25 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Foligno has gone with plenty of people throughout his hockey career. Kassian takes himself out of the game for 5 minutes with a fight with Ben Eager? Foligno knows when to pick his spots. He knew Methot hit Vanek last game and took the name. He isnt going to fight a Tom Sestito who has like 11 career goals. And Kassian lost to Clowe...

They both are budding potential top 6 power forwards. Kassian will be the more physical prescence, but Foligno, to me, will be the leader on and off the ice. Think Kassian as looch, and Foligno as Iginla in terms of fighting. Iginla doesnt fight often, but when he does he does it because his team needs it. Lucic fights all the time, but he sometimes doesnt need to and his team gets hurt by him not being on the ice.
I think you have it backwards... Kassian = Iginla and Foligno = Lucic in terms of style. Kassian has more high-end skill, but Foligno is grittier. Nonetheless, they're both great powerforwards.

And you make it sound like losing to Clowe is a shameful thing. Clowe is a seasoned veteran fighter...

Honestly, it does no one any good to bash Kassian just because he's gone. It's like Vancouver fans who bash Hodgson now that he's in Buffalo.

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02-14-2013, 01:43 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
I think you have it backwards... Kassian = Iginla and Foligno = Lucic in terms of style. Kassian has more high-end skill, but Foligno is grittier. Nonetheless, they're both great powerforwards.

And you make it sound like losing to Clowe is a shameful thing. Clowe is a seasoned veteran fighter...

Honestly, it does no one any good to bash Kassian just because he's gone. It's like Vancouver fans who bash Hodgson now that he's in Buffalo.
Agree completely...one Vancouver native to another.

I think Kassian has the higher upside. He just has better hands and a higher ceiling. But both are going to be effective players.

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02-14-2013, 01:59 AM
  #62
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Agree completely...one Vancouver native to another.

I think Kassian has the higher upside. He just has better hands and a higher ceiling. But both are going to be effective players.
I have a feeling that Kassian will end up as the more finesse and overall more skilled player, but Foligno will be the heart and soul guy of the entire team. Not to say Kassian will be a heartless and cold player, but Foligno will be the fire of the team.

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02-14-2013, 02:45 AM
  #63
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I'm a big Foligno fan, and I'm glad we have him, but in a vacuum, I still take Kassian. Foligno may have better intangible qualities, but Kassian has a good bit o' crazy in his game, and that's something I think this team needs.

I also don't think Ruff could've handled it.

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02-14-2013, 07:33 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Lucic needs to fight to be relevant. Kassian does not.
I don't know if you were going well or not before that quote but my god is that stupid.

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02-14-2013, 09:57 AM
  #65
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I didnt mean in terms of skill the comparables. I meant in fighting. Lucic fights a lot of heavyweights. People fight him so they can make a name for themselves. Kassian will be the same. He will fight those heavyweights who want to make a name for themselves.

I think Kassian is the more skilled player as well. I was only posting to counterpoint what a Canucks poster stated about how Foligno was non-physical and wont fight anyone. I simply stated that Foligno will have a iginla-type style (only in fighting! Dont think I'm comparing there skill) where he fights to change the course of the game. He doesnt have to fight the heavyweights that Kassian will.

And I think Foligno will be a better leader and that has been shown throughout his career with Sudbury to Rochester and now hopefully to Buffalo.

And I'm not saying Kassian sucks. Please dont think that. I just think that people saying Foligno sucks and wont hit or lead the team are wrong.

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02-14-2013, 10:28 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by msm29 View Post
I'm a big Foligno fan, and I'm glad we have him, but in a vacuum, I still take Kassian. Foligno may have better intangible qualities, but Kassian has a good bit o' crazy in his game, and that's something I think this team needs.

I also don't think Ruff could've handled it.
Foligno had more hits last year in his 14 games than Kassian did in his 20+. Either Kassian was just lazy, or Ruff was handling him fine (by his standards lol).

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02-14-2013, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Foligno had more hits last year in his 14 games than Kassian did in his 20+. Either Kassian was just lazy, or Ruff was handling him fine (by his standards lol).
Hits is one thing, but Kassian is a guy I wouldn't feel comfortable skating against. As bad as that sounds, I'm sure, if he gets to that point, that could definitely throw guys off their games.

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02-16-2013, 07:23 AM
  #68
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http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...=sb:highlights

Check out the save on Foligno at 5:14 in the 3rd.

That isn't a play a lot of guys who play his style can make and he does that almost every single game. I'll say it again, he just keeps getting underrated offensively. He makes Ennis an almost PPG player.

Through a little over the first quarter of the season....

Kassian - 13 GP, 5g, 2a, 7 points, 3 PPP, 0 SHP, +1, 16:01 ATOI, 28 hits, 2 fights
Foligno - 15 GP, 1g, 7a, 8 points, 2 PPP, 1 SHP, -4, 16:45 ATOI, 34 hits, 1 fight


Pretty hard to argue one is better than the other right now, but I'd still take Foligno because he isn't a headcase. I think he'll be much more consistent and has a lot of intangibles I don't believe Kassian possesses.

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02-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
I didnt mean in terms of skill the comparables. I meant in fighting. Lucic fights a lot of heavyweights. People fight him so they can make a name for themselves. Kassian will be the same. He will fight those heavyweights who want to make a name for themselves.

I think Kassian is the more skilled player as well. I was only posting to counterpoint what a Canucks poster stated about how Foligno was non-physical and wont fight anyone. I simply stated that Foligno will have a iginla-type style (only in fighting! Dont think I'm comparing there skill) where he fights to change the course of the game. He doesnt have to fight the heavyweights that Kassian will.

And I think Foligno will be a better leader and that has been shown throughout his career with Sudbury to Rochester and now hopefully to Buffalo.

And I'm not saying Kassian sucks. Please dont think that. I just think that people saying Foligno sucks and wont hit or lead the team are wrong.
Agreed. I see Kassian along the lines of a Bertuzzi-like PWF (without the sucker punch and better defensively), while Foligno as a Lucic-like PWF. Each brings a different element to the game, so I'm not sure we can really compare them.

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02-16-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
I didnt mean in terms of skill the comparables. I meant in fighting. Lucic fights a lot of heavyweights. People fight him so they can make a name for themselves. Kassian will be the same. He will fight those heavyweights who want to make a name for themselves.

I think Kassian is the more skilled player as well. I was only posting to counterpoint what a Canucks poster stated about how Foligno was non-physical and wont fight anyone. I simply stated that Foligno will have a iginla-type style (only in fighting! Dont think I'm comparing there skill) where he fights to change the course of the game. He doesnt have to fight the heavyweights that Kassian will.

And I think Foligno will be a better leader and that has been shown throughout his career with Sudbury to Rochester and now hopefully to Buffalo.

And I'm not saying Kassian sucks. Please dont think that. I just think that people saying Foligno sucks and wont hit or lead the team are wrong.
What?

Lucic does not fight heavyweights nor do players try to fight him to make a name for themselves. He rarely if ever fights the likes of Parros, Laraque, McGratton Brasher, Scott, etc. He fought Orr once and it didn't go well for him. Guys like Tim Gleason, Jarred Boll, Prust, Jim Vandermeer have done just fine against him. Lucic generally shies away from fighting the heavyweights and its why he has the reputation for being a bully. I remember when he spent a game ducking Laraque and refusing to fight him. Most of the guys he fights are not heavyweights and the guys he pummels are usually not in his class.

He is definitely a very tough customer, one of the toughest in the league, but he's not the scary monster many Sabre fans seem to think he is. Beating up Mair, Goose, McCormick and a one armed Rivet doesn't make someone the heavyweights champion of the world.

As for the comparison to Foligno in terms of playing style, I agree to a point. I think Lucic is more offensively gifted.


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02-16-2013, 03:24 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Foligno has gone with plenty of people throughout his hockey career. Kassian takes himself out of the game for 5 minutes with a fight with Ben Eager? Foligno knows when to pick his spots. He knew Methot hit Vanek last game and took the name. He isnt going to fight a Tom Sestito who has like 11 career goals. And Kassian lost to Clowe...

They both are budding potential top 6 power forwards. Kassian will be the more physical prescence, but Foligno, to me, will be the leader on and off the ice. Think Kassian as looch, and Foligno as Iginla in terms of fighting. Iginla doesnt fight often, but when he does he does it because his team needs it. Lucic fights all the time, but he sometimes doesnt need to and his team gets hurt by him not being on the ice.
An early season fight where BZK lights Eager up is well worth it. Eager's known as being a bit of a loose cannon in his own right, having someone in his head a bit helps Vancouver every other time they face the Oilers this season. I'll take that all the time. And being a little bit of a loose cannon often generates space for guys out there -- Kassian getting space/time with his hand skills is good for him and good for his linemates.

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02-17-2013, 01:34 PM
  #72
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An early season fight where BZK lights Eager up is well worth it. Eager's known as being a bit of a loose cannon in his own right, having someone in his head a bit helps Vancouver every other time they face the Oilers this season. I'll take that all the time. And being a little bit of a loose cannon often generates space for guys out there -- Kassian getting space/time with his hand skills is good for him and good for his linemates.
Might not be needed. Eager might not play again this season.

Kassian lost to Clowe but in his 2 wins he's sent both guys to the hospital and onto the IR. And in both fights he only landed 1 or 2 punches. Can't teach that power...

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02-17-2013, 03:24 PM
  #73
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I had to check that this was still the Sabres boards after reading this. Can't we all just get along? Jesus.

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02-17-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Foligno had more hits last year in his 14 games than Kassian did in his 20+. Either Kassian was just lazy, or Ruff was handling him fine (by his standards lol).
Quote:
Originally Posted by msm29 View Post
Hits is one thing, but Kassian is a guy I wouldn't feel comfortable skating against. As bad as that sounds, I'm sure, if he gets to that point, that could definitely throw guys off their games.
This is actually part of it. Kassian would have a lot more hits then he does now, but A) He is being asked to try and be the first one back in the defensive end and is doing a good job of it, B) The amount of times players get rid of the puck early when they see Kassian coming borders on the ridiculous.

Sabres fans should really look at this trade from the prespective that if both players are generally going for the same spot it eventually makes one of them redundant. Like how the Canucks had to choose between Raymond and risking losing Grabner for nothing. They traded Grabner and while he's done well on the island, the trade is now paying dividends and if a cup comes, then it makes it even better.
When it comes to the Sabres you didn't get a third pairing D man for your player, you got a #1 center. You gave to get and we both won

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02-17-2013, 09:03 PM
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Kassian/Hodgson is the new Briere/Drury.......

so tired of hearing about it

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