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Toronto Gunnarson to Edmonton for 1st

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Old
02-17-2013, 03:09 PM
  #101
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
It seems Edmonton fans would rationalize there 5th round pick being worth the same as a Leafs 4th round pick

There own team writers lament the state of there D as being nowhere good enough..
Then please tell us.

If we're acquiring an average stay at home defenseman that is dispensable to a team who hasn't had a sniff of playoff hockey in 7 years, is that going to sway the opinions of our writers?

We've now moved our first rounder in supposed deep draft and basically acquired a younger albeit less-talented Nick Schultz. How would our writers feel about that?

The Oilers don't need anymore 4, 5, or 6 defensemen. They need a bonafide top pairing, 30 minutes-a-night defenseman. Preferably left-handed.

That's the only way you'd pry that pick out of Edmonton's hands.

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02-17-2013, 03:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by waitin425 View Post
I realize he is in the AHL because of that. But presumably if he is healthy enough to play full speed in the AHL and take hits in the AHL he would be healthy enough to do that in the NHL. A couple of games on a conditioning stint makes sense.... But when will Leafs fans start getting a lot
E concerned not seeing their premier/elite/future Norris trophy winner not playing in the bigs?
There is a big difference in speed between the AHL and the NHL. The worst part of the concussion isn't the concussion. It is the fact that you can't do ANYTHING while you are suffering from the effects. No strenuous physical activity for 1-2 months after essentially doing it every day for years and years to get to the NHL level. That messes with you.

It takes time to get back to form, not just to return from the injury, and since the Leafs have been winning games and we already have too many defensemen, we actually CAN'T call him up until we trade someone, nor do we really need to.

Also, nobody is calling him a future Norris guy.

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02-17-2013, 03:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Thats true. The Oilers have alot of really good young pieces coming into the fold and because of that wouldn't need to make this trade but their NHL group of defensemen is pretty bad.
The bottom pairing is pretty bad, but the top 4 is as good if not better then what the Leafs have. The problem the Oilers are having is scoring at EV strength and not their D.

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02-17-2013, 03:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
The Oilers don't need anymore 4, 5, or 6 defensemen. They need a bonafide top pairing, 30 minutes-a-night defenseman. Preferably left-handed.
I appreciate that you don't want to trade your first, but Gunnarsson is NOT a 4,5,6 defenseman, and is better than Nick Shultz.

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02-17-2013, 03:17 PM
  #105
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This year is crazy deep and with the new lottery system I love it. I'm hoping we're in 10-14 range and win the lotto. Tambi has crazy draft lotto luck.

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02-17-2013, 03:22 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Because we have too many defensemen already, and guys coming back from injury soon. Somebody HAS to be traded.

Gunnarson probably has the most value after Phaneuf and Gardiner (who are not being traded), and we have done well while he has been injured, with other defensive guys stepping up.
Well this makes zero sense. So you basically want to just trade him to make room. Why not trade/re assign a lesser d men, unless you have 6 d men better than gunnarson, in which case that would mean that gunnarson is not nearly as good as some people suggested, which was my original point.

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02-17-2013, 03:28 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
What would Edmonton be adding to that first round pick?
Rielly + Gardiner for Edm 2013 1st.

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02-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #108
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Lol this proposal is brutal for the Oilers. Gunnarsson is worth a mid-2nd rounder.

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02-17-2013, 03:57 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Then please tell us.

If we're acquiring an average stay at home defenseman that is dispensable to a team who hasn't had a sniff of playoff hockey in 7 years, is that going to sway the opinions of our writers?

We've now moved our first rounder in supposed deep draft and basically acquired a younger albeit less-talented Nick Schultz. How would our writers feel about that?

The Oilers don't need anymore 4, 5, or 6 defensemen. They need a bonafide top pairing, 30 minutes-a-night defenseman. Preferably left-handed.

That's the only way you'd pry that pick out of Edmonton's hands.
Yeah, but he wants our first rounder so just do it.

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02-17-2013, 04:05 PM
  #110
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He's not worth a high first, but I'd say he's worth a late first easily. Who would actually give him up for a mid 2nd? The Leafs would never take that, what's the point?

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02-17-2013, 04:07 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Lol this proposal is brutal for the Oilers. Gunnarsson is worth a mid-2nd rounder.
What is the comparable trade you base this off? Plenty examples of late firsts already mentioned in this thread...

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02-17-2013, 04:08 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by The Dangley One View Post
Well this makes zero sense. So you basically want to just trade him to make room. Why not trade/re assign a lesser d men, unless you have 6 d men better than gunnarson, in which case that would mean that gunnarson is not nearly as good as some people suggested, which was my original point.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. You trade the guy who would bring the biggest return, that you could somewhat replace internally.

We have Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Liles, Gardiner, Franson, Komisarek, Fraser, Holzer, and Kostka that have all showed they can play NHL minutes. That is 9 players. The only person that can go through waivers without being lost is Gardiner. We also may have Rielly and Ranger in the mix next year as well.

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02-17-2013, 04:08 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
Really?

Weber 2nd round
Subban 2nd round
Letang 3rd round
Yandle 4th round
Hamonic 2nd round



Picks are pretty important. Even later round picks. Gunnarson isnt worth a first. IMO a 2nd
Please put together a list of players drafted in the 2nd that didn't have any type of meaningful NHL career. You've got a good list of 3 that have.

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02-17-2013, 04:09 PM
  #114
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I'm always amazed at how poorly people continue to value players vs picks around here. Depending on the time and place Gunnarson can certainly be worth a first round pick. Kyle Quincey, Shane O'Brien, and Keith Ballard are examples of comparable dmen that were traded for first round picks. But I guess players like this aren't worth 1st round picks... except for the time's they're actually traded for 1st round picks.

As for the proposal the key difference is those were playoff teams making the trades and the picks were in the 20-30 range. Edmonton's likely not going to have a top 3 pick this season, but they're also not a safe bet for the playoffs. Edmonton is currently sitting with the #11 overall pick, so with plenty of time for things to go wrong/right the draft pick range is probably somewhere in the #5-20 range, and Gunnarson isn't worth that spread.

But if say Vancouver didn't have Ballard and 1 of our top 4, I'd be okay with the Canucks trading their 1st for Gunnarson.

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02-17-2013, 04:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Deal Oilers 1st in 2015
Like hell they'll give up McDavid! It's pretty much predetermined he'll be theirs...

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02-17-2013, 04:18 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitin425 View Post
Gardiner looked like he could become a premier D last year.

But to call an AHL player premier when so many other D Guys in his draft class are truly premier is a joke.
Yeah no offense but lots of players in Toronto look like they could become premier players... like I recall a time where it was argued Anton Stralman would be better than Alex Edler. Now I like Gardiner better than most that have come out of TO with some hype, but I don't think anyone outside the Leafs fan base is buying a top 5 pick or bust value on him.

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02-17-2013, 05:41 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
Yeah no offense but lots of players in Toronto look like they could become premier players... like I recall a time where it was argued Anton Stralman would be better than Alex Edler. Now I like Gardiner better than most that have come out of TO with some hype, but I don't think anyone outside the Leafs fan base is buying a top 5 pick or bust value on him.
Stralman never looked anything like Gardiner, and I don't recall any comparisons to Edler, even though Stralman has gone on to a decent career.

The hype Stralman got was from his coach from overseas, not Leaf fans.

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02-17-2013, 05:49 PM
  #118
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Done. Nice doing business with you

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02-17-2013, 05:59 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Lol this proposal is brutal for the Oilers. Gunnarsson is worth a mid-2nd rounder.
He's definitely worth a 1st... just not Edmonton's 1st.

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02-17-2013, 06:13 PM
  #120
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Edmontons top 4 D is better than Torontos??? Who is kidding who here..

The leafs top 4 is better than Edmonton's in 10/10 polls

Edmonton has the dynamic young Offense no doubt, the Leafs drafted D heavily the last few years and have an amazing D talent pool hence we can deal

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02-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Actually, it makes perfect sense. You trade the guy who would bring the biggest return, that you could somewhat replace internally.

We have Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Liles, Gardiner, Franson, Komisarek, Fraser, Holzer, and Kostka that have all showed they can play NHL minutes. That is 9 players. The only person that can go through waivers without being lost is Gardiner. We also may have Rielly and Ranger in the mix next year as well.
Edmonton hasn't been getting blown out in most games and it's tight despite the lack of scoring on our end most games. So our top 4 D are doing a good job for what's expected of a rebuilding team.

So in our D we have top 4 of Smid-Petry, Schultz-Schultz and no need for Gunnar as the pairings compliment eachother well. On top of that we have Klefbom and Marincin who will be in camp this next year and could likely earn a bottom pairing role; Klefbom possibly more. There's Peckham/Teubert/Plante for a bottom pairing callup and Musil and Gernat developing nicely.

There's no reason for Edmonton to make a knee-jerk trade like this when the position of our 1st is very much in question. It makes sense for Gunnar to be the trade bait in Toronto, but look to a contending team not one like Edmonton.

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02-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #122
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Gunnerson is worth a first round pick to a team that is desperate and is prepared to make a bad move.

Edmonton is not that desperate. Not to mention there's a ton of players better than Gunnerson that Edmonton could likely acquire.

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02-17-2013, 06:19 PM
  #123
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Chaz McNulty View Post
I never realized how coveted Carl Gunnarson was around the league. I don't watch the Leafs alot. Can I ask you where he would slot in with the Canucks defense.

Hamhuis
Bieksa
Edler
Garrison
Ballard
Tanev
Currently I would rate them like this:

Ballard
Tanev
Hamhuis
Edler
Garrison
Bieksa

But in line-up form, Gunnarsson would be.......

Hamhuis - Edler
Garrison - Bieksa
Ballard - Tanev
Gunarsson


He's not worth a 1st. Sorry OP, bad proposal.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:21 PM
  #124
Brian28
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
Edmontons top 4 D is better than Torontos??? Who is kidding who here..

The leafs top 4 is better than Edmonton's in 10/10 polls

Edmonton has the dynamic young Offense no doubt, the Leafs drafted D heavily the last few years and have an amazing D talent pool hence we can deal
Edmonton doesn't need Gunnar more than they need another good prospect. With this being a deep draft and the cahnge in draft lottery it's unlikely any bottom 12 team would move their first for a player like Gunnarson. He's a reasonable D-man, but won't put a team like Edmonton over the top.

Besides...the vast majority Edm fans would take our top 4 over Gunnarson. Simple as that. We won't move a 1st foer a player we expect to play on our bottom pairing.

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02-17-2013, 06:21 PM
  #125
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Either above or below Jason Garrison, depending on the needs of the team at the time. For example, if trying to come back from two goals down, the coach would play Jason Garrison a hell of a lot more than Carl Gunnarsson. But if they're trying to nurse a two goal lead, you'll most certainly give more minutes to Carl Gunnarsson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
He's not... he's severely overrated around Leaf land for several reasons... none of which have to do with his actual skill or play.

He'd probably fit in on the 3rd pairing above Ballard for the Canucks but he's soft as a fluffed pillow and has no offence at all.
No he wouldn't he would be our 7th D-man. Ballard has been our best Dman and Ballard-Tanev have been our best pair.

He's maybe worth a late first, but not much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Gunnar is still better.
Nope.

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