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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Gagner should have a good +/-. He is not playing against other teams shutdown players and he is not be used to shut other teams top players down. He also has been racking up the EN points this season
You can scoff at empty net points if you want, but when you get them it means that your team found a way to win and that you did a good job in your own end when you were down a man. In Sam's case, at least one of his en points came off of his own good shot block.

He's not a great center in his own end right now but 1) he's still in his development curve 2) he's bringing a lot to the table offensively and 3) the Oilers aren't in their window of opportunity for winning the Cup just yet - there are a lot of other facets of their game that are still a work in progress.

Getting rid of Sam because he's not great defensively right now is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Your perfect 2nd line center is a lot harder to find than you think.

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02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Gagner should have a good +/-. He is not playing against other teams shutdown players and he is not be used to shut other teams top players down. He also has been racking up the EN points this season
He has been on ice for empty net goals against as well, was that his fault opp scored into empty net?

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02-16-2013, 07:21 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
He has been on ice for empty net goals against as well, was that his fault opp scored into empty net?
The time that it was his boneheaded turn over that led directly to the goal was.

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02-17-2013, 10:18 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
The time that it was his boneheaded turn over that led directly to the goal was.
You're trying way too hard to find fault with a guy who is scoring over a ppg on the second line. Do you know how many players have done that in the last 30 years?
It's sad that if Gagner wasn't "vertically challenged" people would have a lot more patience with him.

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02-17-2013, 10:34 AM
  #355
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I think in order to resign Gagner we would need to buyout Horcoff. I'm thinking Gagner could get 4.5 at the absolute minimum

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02-17-2013, 10:46 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
I think in order to resign Gagner we would need to buyout Horcoff. I'm thinking Gagner could get 4.5 at the absolute minimum
It was stupid of the club to do the one year deal. Soon as we got Yak you had to know the Oilers were going to have 2 solid lines and with Gagner as the 2C. Gagners not had a year with this nature of linemates before thus far and it was very predictable he was going to have a good production year.

I was happy Gagner got the contract because this year was going to be showtime. Now he forces the teams hand. Had a good year last year as well.

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02-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #357
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For the first, i dont want to trade Gagner before we have a 2 c who can play both ways, who can drive the play,who can win us Fo in a regular basis and can play hard around the boards.

Where we are right now, it doesnt matters because we arent a good team, we are to soft and 2-4 lines isnt good at regular basis. Rnh doesnt plays soft if you combine youth size and years in nhl! Rnh to me is a superstar in coming and their line outplaying and outshooting strong opponents night after night. That line is pure gold and everyone knows it and i think last night is going to put fire to their scoring 5 on 5.

Gagner a regular 40p guy with offensive qualitys who cant play hard and cant win enough Fo in regular basis, he do his best but his best isnt good enough for a team to contend for the ring.

Gagner is depending on a driver in his lines, he reads the game well and with lot of time, he make really good plays. Why should we go forward with a 2 c who is a pp specialist who racks up points in 5 on 4 but is pretty invisible 5 on 5.

He has 4 goals in 14 games and 1 is a open netter and 1 is in pp.
So we could say 2 g es and 3 second assist(yes every ass in es is second). That not impressive when his shooting% is normal comparing to earlier year. The line has very low puckpossession and has been outshot almost every game.

If that numbers had been your "friend" Player X then you had been all over him, even if you use all 4 goals in 14gp, i remember many times when you pointed that out. So in your own way to see it should Gagners assist be close to worthless. 2 goals es with topminutes and 18-19 minutes a game isnt good for 2 line c.

He has 6 points in es and 8 p in pp so his improvement in points is all about our great pp and Hemskys/yaks sh%. We all know that he is a good pp player.
To compare other in the team especially the first line is ridicolous when their sh% is way under normal Hall 5.3% Ebs 10.4% and Rnh 3.6% GagnerS linemates hemsky 24 in sh% and Yak 19 %.

What do you thinks happens with their sh% before the season ends? I mean hemsk/yaks efectiveness go down to normal and the line continues to get outshot(huh).

Gagner isnt a 2c , he doesnt take that responsible and cant do it because hes to weak/small and hes skating is below average and his puckprotection is weak and we tried him at the wing before(looked horrible). His improvements in the bad areas is invisible, his fo stats says that and he is -2. hes been owned big by Umberger,stastny and duchene lately nothing wrong about that but it has looked so freakin easy and not even close.

With all bad but true things said, Gagner can be a good complement to a strong big team with good drivers, but he will never be a 2 c in a champion team and thats why i doesnt think Gagner is a fit with us when we take a run at the cup!


Last edited by McClelland: 02-17-2013 at 05:02 PM.
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02-17-2013, 04:15 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It was stupid of the club to do the one year deal. Soon as we got Yak you had to know the Oilers were going to have 2 solid lines and with Gagner as the 2C. Gagners not had a year with this nature of linemates before thus far and it was very predictable he was going to have a good production year.

I was happy Gagner got the contract because this year was going to be showtime. Now he forces the teams hand. Had a good year last year as well.
Let me play devils advocate here, Hemsky comes back and plays at last years form, Yakupov struggles a bit and the 2nd line gets lit up because of Gagner's struggling faceoff and defensive ability. Would they be beating themselves up over not opening the vault for him? IMO they did the right thing, give him a 1 year deal, a "show me" deal. If he ends up being part of the future and the team decides to overlook his shortcomings because of his offensive abilities then at least he's starting to show that he can be consistent at this level. If he keeps it up his worth goes up for us or another team. If we keep Gagner we will need a stud 3rd line center that can play great defense so that we don't have to always rely on the RNH line to go head to head with the opposing teams top line at home. Who would fit that bill? Solid faceoff man with size and speed who can play tremendous defense and win over 50% on draws and fit in long term here? Will Gagner be a team player and take a little less because of his deficiencies? Or will he try to get every cent that he can like most athletes do? Lots of ?'s IMO, had Gagner started to elevate his game even 1 year sooner the picture would be a lot clearer.

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02-17-2013, 04:21 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
For the first, i dont want to trade Gagner before we have a 2 c who can play both ways, who can drive the play,who can win us Fo in a regular basis and can play hard around the boards.

Where we are right now, it doesnt matters because we arent a good team, we are to soft and 2-4 lines isnt good at regular basis. Rnh doesnt plays soft if you combine youth size and years in nhl! Rnh to me is a superstar in coming and their line outplaying and outshooting strong opponents night after night. That line is pure gold and everyone knows it and i think last night is going to put fire to their scoring 5 on 5.

Gagner a regular 40p guy with offensive qualitys who cant play hard and cant win enough Fo in regular basis, he do his best but his best isnt good enough for a team to contend for the ring.

Gagner is depending on a driver in his lines, he reads the game well and with lot of time, he make really good plays. Why should we go forward with a 2 c who is a pp specialist who racks up points in 5 on 4 but is pretty invisible 5 on 5.

He has 4 goals in 14 games and 1 is a open netter and 1 is in pp.
So we could say 2 g es and 3 second assist(yes every ass in es is second). That not impressive when his shooting% is normal comparing to earlier year. The line has very low puckpossession and has been outshot almost every game.

If that numbers had been your "friend" Omarks then you had been all over him, even if you use all 4 goals in 14gp, i remember many times when you pointed that out. So in your own way to see it should Gagners assist be close to worthless. 2 goals es with topminutes and 18-19 minutes a game isnt good for 2 line c.

He has 6 points in es and 8 p in pp so his improvement in points is all about our great pp and Hemskys/yaks sh%. We all know that he is a good pp player.
To compare other in the team especially the first line is ridicolous when their sh% is way under normal Hall 5.3% Ebs 10.4% and Rnh 3.6% GagnerS linemates hemsky 24 in sh% and Yak 19 %.

What do you thinks happens with their sh% before the season ends? I mean hemsk/yaks efectiveness go down to normal and the line continues to get outshot(huh).

Gagner isnt a 2c , he doesnt take that responsible and cant do it because hes to weak/small and hes skating is below average and his puckprotection is weak and we tried him at the wing before(looked horrible). His improvements in the bad areas is invisible, his fo stats says that and he is -2. hes been owned big by Umberger,stastny and duchene lately nothing wrong about that but it has looked so freakin easy and not even close.

With all bad but true things said, Gagner can be a good complement to a strong big team with good drivers, but he will never be a 2 c in a champion team and thats why i doesnt think Gagner is a fit with us when we take a run at the cup!
You just HAD to sneak a little bit about Omark in there, didn't you.

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02-17-2013, 04:59 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
You just HAD to sneak a little bit about Player X in there, didn't you.
Yeaah, at least his name! its funny because a specific poster has called assists worthless, and that only goal counts! And now Gagner has 11 assists

Player X and Gagner is in a way in the same situation, they arent good enough defensive to play in the bottom lines and not useful in the pk. their biggest strenghts is in pp and both are big misfits in our team right now.

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02-17-2013, 06:29 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
For the first, i dont want to trade Gagner before we have a 2 c who can play both ways, who can drive the play,who can win us Fo in a regular basis and can play hard around the boards.

Where we are right now, it doesnt matters because we arent a good team, we are to soft and 2-4 lines isnt good at regular basis. Rnh doesnt plays soft if you combine youth size and years in nhl! Rnh to me is a superstar in coming and their line outplaying and outshooting strong opponents night after night. That line is pure gold and everyone knows it and i think last night is going to put fire to their scoring 5 on 5.

Gagner a regular 40p guy with offensive qualitys who cant play hard and cant win enough Fo in regular basis, he do his best but his best isnt good enough for a team to contend for the ring.

Gagner is depending on a driver in his lines, he reads the game well and with lot of time, he make really good plays. Why should we go forward with a 2 c who is a pp specialist who racks up points in 5 on 4 but is pretty invisible 5 on 5.

He has 4 goals in 14 games and 1 is a open netter and 1 is in pp.
So we could say 2 g es and 3 second assist(yes every ass in es is second). That not impressive when his shooting% is normal comparing to earlier year. The line has very low puckpossession and has been outshot almost every game.

If that numbers had been your "friend" Player X then you had been all over him, even if you use all 4 goals in 14gp, i remember many times when you pointed that out. So in your own way to see it should Gagners assist be close to worthless. 2 goals es with topminutes and 18-19 minutes a game isnt good for 2 line c.

He has 6 points in es and 8 p in pp so his improvement in points is all about our great pp and Hemskys/yaks sh%. We all know that he is a good pp player.
To compare other in the team especially the first line is ridicolous when their sh% is way under normal Hall 5.3% Ebs 10.4% and Rnh 3.6% GagnerS linemates hemsky 24 in sh% and Yak 19 %.

What do you thinks happens with their sh% before the season ends? I mean hemsk/yaks efectiveness go down to normal and the line continues to get outshot(huh).

Gagner isnt a 2c , he doesnt take that responsible and cant do it because hes to weak/small and hes skating is below average and his puckprotection is weak and we tried him at the wing before(looked horrible). His improvements in the bad areas is invisible, his fo stats says that and he is -2. hes been owned big by Umberger,stastny and duchene lately nothing wrong about that but it has looked so freakin easy and not even close.

With all bad but true things said, Gagner can be a good complement to a strong big team with good drivers, but he will never be a 2 c in a champion team and thats why i doesnt think Gagner is a fit with us when we take a run at the cup!
Hold on a sec....if Omark had 15 points in 14 games we would be all over him????? You've lost it!!! Do you think Gagner has peaked at 23?

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02-17-2013, 06:31 PM
  #362
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Hold on a sec....if Omark had 15 points in 14 games we would be all over him????? You've lost it!!! Do you think Gagner has peaked at 23?
A certain poster would. Citing Lack of goals, and ES scoring combined with a negative +/- rating and poor GA/60.

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02-17-2013, 07:40 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
A certain poster would. Citing Lack of goals, and ES scoring combined with a negative +/- rating and poor GA/60.
Are we talking about the elusive Swedish-Canadian conjoined twins Sinus Gagmark? Because the way I heard it, the parasitic twin left for Switzerland, while the remaining twin dominated in his absence.

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02-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #364
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Gee I can't imagine why I ever criticized Omark. Could be he wasn't even a reasonable fascimile of an NHL player.

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02-17-2013, 07:57 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Let me play devils advocate here, Hemsky comes back and plays at last years form, Yakupov struggles a bit and the 2nd line gets lit up because of Gagner's struggling faceoff and defensive ability. Would they be beating themselves up over not opening the vault for him? IMO they did the right thing, give him a 1 year deal, a "show me" deal. If he ends up being part of the future and the team decides to overlook his shortcomings because of his offensive abilities then at least he's starting to show that he can be consistent at this level. If he keeps it up his worth goes up for us or another team. If we keep Gagner we will need a stud 3rd line center that can play great defense so that we don't have to always rely on the RNH line to go head to head with the opposing teams top line at home. Who would fit that bill? Solid faceoff man with size and speed who can play tremendous defense and win over 50% on draws and fit in long term here? Will Gagner be a team player and take a little less because of his deficiencies? Or will he try to get every cent that he can like most athletes do? Lots of ?'s IMO, had Gagner started to elevate his game even 1 year sooner the picture would be a lot clearer.
Agreed with you on every point except the last. Gagner had elevated his play, the numbers just weren't quite there

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02-17-2013, 08:06 PM
  #366
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Agreed with you on every point except the last. Gagner had elevated his play, the numbers just weren't quite there
Show me already happened last year. Best +/- on the club, solid all round play, and prorated easily to over 50pts on the year. This is what people had stated was the benchmark for where our second center should be.

Except its moving targets and now it 60pts, then 70, then ppg being expected.

The reality is that those that don't like what Gagner brings here won't like his contribution regardless.

That theres so much contempt for his play while he's above ppg and -1 on a poor club tells you pretty much all you need to know.

People will then bring out the consistency argument but he has 62pts in his last 89GP(this year and last) and definitely ramping up the pts production.

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02-18-2013, 04:05 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
For the first, i dont want to trade Gagner before we have a 2 c who can play both ways, who can drive the play,who can win us Fo in a regular basis and can play hard around the boards.
Two problems with this. First, the "total package" center you outline above is not an abundant commodity. Second, we have the dumbest man in hockey seeing to it that the team acquire such a player. Good luck if that's what you're waiting for.
Quote:
Gagner a regular 40p guy with offensive qualitys who cant play hard and cant win enough Fo in regular basis, he do his best but his best isnt good enough for a team to contend for the ring.
Are you telling me I couldn't go through the list of SC champions to date and find a team that won with a worse 2C than Sam Gagner? I didn't think so.
Quote:
Gagner isnt a 2c , he doesnt take that responsible and cant do it because hes to weak/small and hes skating is below average and his puckprotection is weak and we tried him at the wing before(looked horrible). His improvements in the bad areas is invisible, his fo stats says that and he is -2. hes been owned big by Umberger,stastny and duchene lately nothing wrong about that but it has looked so freakin easy and not even close.
So really all of the above - like your contention that he could never center the second line on a championship team - are not facts, rather opinions, born of a combination of your cherry-picking bias against the player, the extent to which you blame one player for the overall softness of the team, and most unbelievable, your willingness to write off a player who is only twenty three and has somehow survived the wasteland that has been our Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the last five seasons.
Quote:
Gagner is depending on a driver in his lines
False. When I see that line gain possession of the zone smoothly its almost always a result of Gagner carrying the puck through neutral and making the smart pass.
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he will never be a 2 c in a champion team and thats why i doesnt think Gagner is a fit with us when we take a run at the cup!
How about since we aren't going to be a championship team anytime soon, and the "total package" guy you want seems currently unavailable .... how about we just hold onto the player and see what happens over the next few seasons? Let the GM try to fill a few of the more glaring needs on the team rather than working to rid himself of his current leading scorer.

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02-18-2013, 09:52 AM
  #368
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Two problems with this. First, the "total package" center you outline above is not an abundant commodity. Second, we have the dumbest man in hockey seeing to it that the team acquire such a player. Good luck if that's what you're waiting for.
Are you telling me I couldn't go through the list of SC champions to date and find a team that won with a worse 2C than Sam Gagner? I didn't think so.
So really all of the above - like your contention that he could never center the second line on a championship team - are not facts, rather opinions, born of a combination of your cherry-picking bias against the player, the extent to which you blame one player for the overall softness of the team, and most unbelievable, your willingness to write off a player who is only twenty three and has somehow survived the wasteland that has been our Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the last five seasons.
False. When I see that line gain possession of the zone smoothly its almost always a result of Gagner carrying the puck through neutral and making the smart pass.
How about since we aren't going to be a championship team anytime soon, and the "total package" guy you want seems currently unavailable .... how about we just hold onto the player and see what happens over the next few seasons? Let the GM try to fill a few of the more glaring needs on the team rather than working to rid himself of his current leading scorer.
I look forward to that list with teams who won the cup with worse 2c then Gagner!
Includes Fo stats and pk toi, gav, take aways,hits.

If you cant see that Hemsky drives that line into offensive zone i cant help you!
Gagner was a passenger even with rookie Omark! Cherrypicking? You are the one who cherrypicking from the total written about Gagner! So i must repeat my self again!

His puckprotection is poor for a 2 c, he is easy to knock off the puck and he isnt strong enough around the boards, leading to short stints in offensive zone and next to no cycling game. 5 on 4 he gets free space and less psysical attention and he can do his nice things. He is also good at broken play situations with man advantage.

He have also defensive issues because he is weak on the dot and doesnt win enough battles around the boards and are to slow in backchecking and to weak to muscle out opponents.

The issue is , has he developed his flaws to be a keeper going forward, my answer is No, Show me or give me at least a indication of that improvement?

Answer me why the 2 line gets outshot so heavy? Do you think that Gagner has been good 5 on 5? Is 2g+ 1 empty netter and 3 2 assists indication of a offensive improvement ? In 5 on 4 has he always produced and now when the team is so effective in pp has his total numbers got a push.

wherent for hemskys/yaks high sh% had that line been crucified long ago, leading the team in gav with a low puckpossesion and outshot most in the team.

You and other heavy Gagner supporters want to hang on to a 24 years old guy who is on his 6th season with small next to no improvements. Name some nhl players who had their brake out season at their 6th season? We cant collect players because they are nice and do their best, if they arent good enough and not a good fit to a small and overall weak team.


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02-18-2013, 11:15 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Show me already happened last year. Best +/- on the club, solid all round play, and prorated easily to over 50pts on the year. This is what people had stated was the benchmark for where our second center should be.

Except its moving targets and now it 60pts, then 70, then ppg being expected.

The reality is that those that don't like what Gagner brings here won't like his contribution regardless.

That theres so much contempt for his play while he's above ppg and -1 on a poor club tells you pretty much all you need to know.

People will then bring out the consistency argument but he has 62pts in his last 89GP(this year and last) and definitely ramping up the pts production.
Oh for sure. I've been a Gagner supporter all along. It seems like if he was an inch taller, everyone would be in love with him. You couldn't be more correct. No production will ever be enough because he's so small at 5'11, 199 lbs. Not only is he over a PPG, but he's leading the team, and last I checked, was 15th in the entire league in scoring. Too bad that's borderline #2C caliber. A real #2C would be leading the league

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02-18-2013, 11:32 AM
  #370
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Name some nhl players who had their brake out season at their 6th season?
Henrik Sedin: Didn't top Gagner's rookie total (or top 50% on the dot) until his 6th season (05-06) as a pro (lockout year in 04-05). He was 25 at the start of that season. His totals were 29, 36, 39, 42, then 75. Daniel Sedin, similar trajectory. Both of those guys were getting tossed around their first couple of years. Couldn't hang on to the puck.

Martin St Louis didn't break out until he was like 27.

Sam's own dad - Dave. He bounced around between the Rags and their AHL team for 5 years until he broke out with Minnesota at the age of 24.

There's 4.

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02-18-2013, 12:10 PM
  #371
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Agreed with you on every point except the last. Gagner had elevated his play, the numbers just weren't quite there
IMO he showed greater strength last season as well as faceoff ability (now this year the faceoffs took a huge step back so far).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Show me already happened last year. Best +/- on the club, solid all round play, and prorated easily to over 50pts on the year. This is what people had stated was the benchmark for where our second center should be.

Except its moving targets and now it 60pts, then 70, then ppg being expected.

The reality is that those that don't like what Gagner brings here won't like his contribution regardless.

That theres so much contempt for his play while he's above ppg and -1 on a poor club tells you pretty much all you need to know.

People will then bring out the consistency argument but he has 62pts in his last 89GP(this year and last) and definitely ramping up the pts production.
I'm sorry Replacement but I find it odd at best that you would use +/- as a benchmark last year yet you completely wrote it off with his start this season and blamed it on everyone but Gagner. Gagner is our 4th best defensive center on this club and is currently tied for the worst +/- of all of our regular centers yet you crapped on RNH for the best part of this season while he's played better defense than Gagner has ever played and had better faceoff stats up until the last game I suppose because now Gagner has an ever so slight lead in that category. Gagner showed that he had big games in him last year but he was wildly inconsistent offensively and like it or not that is his bread and butter.

Sam Gagner is what he is and always was, a one dimensional hockey player with physical and defensive limitations. The difference right now is that he is producing very well offensively and if he can maintain this type of production he could be a useful player going forward as long as we get a beast of a 3C to lessen his deficiencies. A team like Phoenix or Nashville would likely cream their jeans for a player like him because they have the supporting cast for a player like him already in place.

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02-18-2013, 12:12 PM
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Oh for sure. I've been a Gagner supporter all along. It seems like if he was an inch taller, everyone would be in love with him. You couldn't be more correct. No production will ever be enough because he's so small at 5'11, 199 lbs. Not only is he over a PPG, but he's leading the team, and last I checked, was 15th in the entire league in scoring. Too bad that's borderline #2C caliber. A real #2C would be leading the league
Do you expect to see him top 20 in the league in scoring at years end or do you think that this is just a hot streak for Gagner?

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02-18-2013, 12:18 PM
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Two problems with this. First, the "total package" center you outline above is not an abundant commodity. Second, we have the dumbest man in hockey seeing to it that the team acquire such a player. Good luck if that's what you're waiting for.
Are you telling me I couldn't go through the list of SC champions to date and find a team that won with a worse 2C than Sam Gagner? I didn't think so.
So really all of the above - like your contention that he could never center the second line on a championship team - are not facts, rather opinions, born of a combination of your cherry-picking bias against the player, the extent to which you blame one player for the overall softness of the team, and most unbelievable, your willingness to write off a player who is only twenty three and has somehow survived the wasteland that has been our Edmonton Oilers hockey club for the last five seasons.
False. When I see that line gain possession of the zone smoothly its almost always a result of Gagner carrying the puck through neutral and making the smart pass.
How about since we aren't going to be a championship team anytime soon, and the "total package" guy you want seems currently unavailable .... how about we just hold onto the player and see what happens over the next few seasons? Let the GM try to fill a few of the more glaring needs on the team rather than working to rid himself of his current leading scorer.


This was fantastic.

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02-18-2013, 12:22 PM
  #374
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IMO he showed greater strength last season as well as faceoff ability (now this year the faceoffs took a huge step back so far).



I'm sorry Replacement but I find it odd at best that you would use +/- as a benchmark last year yet you completely wrote it off with his start this season and blamed it on everyone but Gagner. Gagner is our 4th best defensive center on this club and is currently tied for the worst +/- of all of our regular centers yet you crapped on RNH for the best part of this season while he's played better defense than Gagner has ever played and had better faceoff stats up until the last game I suppose because now Gagner has an ever so slight lead in that category. Gagner showed that he had big games in him last year but he was wildly inconsistent offensively and like it or not that is his bread and butter.

Sam Gagner is what he is and always was, a one dimensional hockey player with physical and defensive limitations. The difference right now is that he is producing very well offensively and if he can maintain this type of production he could be a useful player going forward as long as we get a beast of a 3C to lessen his deficiencies. A team like Phoenix or Nashville would likely cream their jeans for a player like him because they have the supporting cast for a player like him already in place.
We've been through this many times. Evaluation of stats like this means very little after a 14 game sample and are predicated very much on Qualteam. A whole season sample is much more indicative of where Gagners game has gone.

Of any topsix forward on this club Gagner and RNH are both the most likely to be back covering for D on a pinch as their roles and positions require. RNH happens to be a well coached player, I don't disagree. Belanger and Horcoff are specifically here for their limiting GA body of work and little else. Their games are MORE one dimensional because they can add absolutely nothing to the scoresheet. Its painful watching Belanger try to create offence. Virtually anybody he's playing with goes on a cold spell and always.


btw the bolded is kind of funny because it shows you're stretching an argument.


Lets be clear on one thing here. Gagner never had much benefit here from linemates, org, or coaching. Basically his entire 5 year diet has consisted of being thrown to the wolves and liking it. He went through 4 coaches in 5 years and an org in absolute confusion. Finally there looks to be some more stability, a growing nucleus of good players, and even some vets like Belanger that can help young centers learn one aspect of the game.

It wasn't easy being a Gagner, or Gilbert, learning the ropes on the worst team in the NHL and a team that was dreadfully bad. RNH, just on basis of when he's coming into this org is here at a much better time and with more help. With for instance elite players like J Schultz at D that we simply haven't had since Pronger.

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02-18-2013, 12:52 PM
  #375
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Do you expect to see him top 20 in the league in scoring at years end or do you think that this is just a hot streak for Gagner?
I don't, but it doesn't make it any less impressive

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