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Paul Stastny

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Old
02-17-2013, 02:53 PM
  #201
sparxx87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
...O'Reilly produced two more points than staz last year, getting to spend all year with Rookie Landeskog...
Calder winning rookie Landeskog?

Stastny has better offensive skills then O'Reilly, he should out score him easily.


I'm not sure how you can attribute bad luck for going on 3 years now? Puck luck goes both ways. Players will go through hot and cold streaks, but 3 year cold streaks are just called decline in play.


I'm not disputing that Stastny is still a solid and useful player. I refute that he's the same player he was 3 years ago and his drop in production is only due to poor wingers, coach, system etc. and has nothing to do with his play.

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02-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Calder winning rookie Landeskog?

Stastny has better offensive skills then O'Reilly, he should out score him easily.


I'm not sure how you can attribute bad luck for going on 3 years now? Puck luck goes both ways. Players will go through hot and cold streaks, but 3 year cold streaks are just called decline in play.


I'm not disputing that Stastny is still a solid and useful player. I refute that he's the same player he was 3 years ago and his drop in production is only due to poor wingers, coach, system etc. and has nothing to do with his play.
Actually Staz' production has only been really down for 1 year, the 2011 calendar year. And you asked why Staz can't produce as much as O'Reilly. The answer to which is that he did produce almost exactly as much as ROR, despite having much worse wingers.

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Old
02-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Actually Staz' production has only been really down for 1 year, the 2011 calendar year. And you asked why Staz can't produce as much as O'Reilly, when in reality he did produce almost exactly as much as ROR, despite having much worse wingers.
Well, we're in the 2013 calendar year now. I'm no mathematician, but uhhh...

I call 2 points a wash, but Stastny unquestionably has more offensive skill... He should out score O'Reilly easily.


It's just excuse after excuse, but nobody wants to just admit it - his production has declined. For 6.6 million you expect 70+ points, not 50 something.. 7 points in 13 games is on pace for that again. With no O'Reilly to take his ice time, what's the excuse? Johnny Malkin?

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02-17-2013, 03:18 PM
  #204
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And he was around a 70+ point pace in 2010-2011 until the calendar changed over, and was again near that pace last year after he got to play with McGinn and Jones sobered up. This year he'd be well over a point per game if McGinn hadn't hit 5 posts in their first 6 games, since which point Staz has been around PPG and should finish the season at or above 40 points.

And while Staz does have more offensive skill than ROR, you're either under-estimating O'Reilly's skill, or underestimating the difference between getting to play with calder trophy winning Gabe Landeskog, and playing with guys like Kobasew, Lindstrom and Drunk Jones, if you think Staz should've been out producing him easily.

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02-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
And he was around a 70+ point pace in 2010-2011 until the calendar changed over, and was again near that pace last year after he got to play with McGinn and Jones sobered up. This year he'd be well over a point per game if McGinn hadn't hit 5 posts in their first 6 games, since which point Staz has been around PPG and should finish the season at or above 40 points.

And while Staz does have more offensive skill than ROR, you're either under-estimating O'Reilly's skill, or underestimating the difference between getting to play with calder trophy winning Gabe Landeskog, and playing with guys like Kobasew, Lindstrom and Drunk Jones, if you think Staz should've been out producing him easily.
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.. Stop blaming his wingers. Hockey is a game of inches, lots of guys would have higher point totals if every one was 100% on scoring chances. Hitting posts are part of the game.

Pace means jack $***. It's about consistency and sustaining that pace over an entire season. Every player has good stretches, look at Cory Conacher in Tampa; nobody thought he'd keep up his 1.5 PPG pace from his first 5 or so games. It's about the whole season, not stretches.


Ever wonder why O'Reilly got to play with the better wingers? I'm sure it couldn't have anything to do with him playing better?

Is the fact that Johnny Malkin has 2 more points in 1 less game then Stastny attributed to wingers too?

At what point to we stop blaming his poor wingers, and start blaming his poor play? Or start attributing his inflated stats a few years ago to Milan Hejduk etc?

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02-17-2013, 03:36 PM
  #206
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After what I saw last night, he looks like a third liner. He made some bone head passes during their PP with about 3 mins to go in the game. Doesn't come off as dangerous enough to be a first line center.

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Old
02-17-2013, 03:38 PM
  #207
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Habs Offer

Choice Of Desharnais Or Eller
+ Leblanc
+ Choice of Diaz/Bouillon/Kaberle/Weber
+ Avs Choice of our second round picks on draft day

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02-17-2013, 03:49 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Trembz420 View Post
Habs Offer

Choice Of Desharnais Or Eller
+ Leblanc
+ Choice of Diaz/Bouillon/Kaberle/Weber
+ Avs Choice of our second round picks on draft day
That's too much from the Habs. I'd take out Leblanc and Diaz/Bouillon out of the equation and we keep the best 2nd round pick. If the Avalanche want Bourque they can have him instead of the 2nd round pick.

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02-17-2013, 03:51 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by fahad203 View Post
After what I saw last night, he looks like a third liner. He made some bone head passes during their PP with about 3 mins to go in the game. Doesn't come off as dangerous enough to be a first line center.
Indeed. He's not impressive and hasn't been since 2009/10.

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02-17-2013, 03:53 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
That's too much from the Habs. I'd take out Leblanc and Diaz/Bouillon out of the equation and we keep the best 2nd round pick. If the Avalanche want Bourque they can have him instead of the 2nd round pick.
Bouque looks good right now next to Pleks and his cap hit is pretty good considering what he brings (if he brings it on a steady basis) And Stats would replace one of either DD/Eller in the middle anyways.. Obviously if Eller was traded, DD would have to be the one moved down so Stats could play on the top 2 lines

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02-17-2013, 03:57 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post

At what point to we stop blaming his poor wingers, and start blaming his poor play? Or start attributing his inflated stats a few years ago to Milan Hejduk etc?
Simply put, we don't ever....

Stastny is a playmaking Center, during his 75-80 point years he was putting up roughly 20 goals 50-60 Assists every year. A playmaking Center cant continue to put up points if his Wingers cant finnish, and this has been the case with Stastny for 1.5 Years(He's only been producing at a lower level for this long).

When Stastny was putting up higher point totals, he had goal scorers on his wings who were putting his passes in the net. His linemates this year have so far scored 2 goals. He cant put up points if his linemates cant finnish...


MAYBE, just maybe if you stopped looking solely at stats and watched a game, you would see that Stas is still setting up his linemates for quality scoring chances 2-3 times a game, but he cant help that they haven't been able to finnish....

I know, that's a crazy concept, who actually watches hockey on this forum anyway, all just a bunch of statisticians.

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Old
02-17-2013, 03:58 PM
  #212
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From the habs:

Gionta
Desharnais
Kaberle
Weber

for

Statsny
O'byrne

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Old
02-17-2013, 03:59 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
From the habs:

Gionta
Desharnais
Kaberle
Weber

for

Statsny
O'byrne
CHACHING!!! Thats gold

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Old
02-17-2013, 04:36 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Simply put, we don't ever....

Stastny is a playmaking Center, during his 75-80 point years he was putting up roughly 20 goals 50-60 Assists every year. A playmaking Center cant continue to put up points if his Wingers cant finnish, and this has been the case with Stastny for 1.5 Years(He's only been producing at a lower level for this long).

When Stastny was putting up higher point totals, he had goal scorers on his wings who were putting his passes in the net. His linemates this year have so far scored 2 goals. He cant put up points if his linemates cant finnish...


MAYBE, just maybe if you stopped looking solely at stats and watched a game, you would see that Stas is still setting up his linemates for quality scoring chances 2-3 times a game, but he cant help that they haven't been able to finnish....

I know, that's a crazy concept, who actually watches hockey on this forum anyway, all just a bunch of statisticians.
I watch the Avs quite a bit actually. Being in the east, I usually watch 1 western game per night. As I already stated, Chris Stewart and Matt Duchene were a big part in me starting to watch Colorado on a semi regular basis.

I see Stastny making plays that any other average 2nd liner makes. He doesn't do anything special. Top line playmakers make their line mates better and create opportunities. Stastny doesn't seem to do that. He seems to make generic plays that result in a whole lot of nothing.

I'm not solely basing everything on stats, but guys making 6.6 million dollars annually are expected to put up numbers, something Stastny hasn't done for what's going on 3 years now.


Duchene and O'Reilly got the better wingers to play with because they were playing better. It's that simple. It's not some conspiracy against him, Joe Sacco wants to keep his job and will put whoever he thinks gives him the best chance out there.


Stastny's play has declined and there's really no disputing that. He's underproducing and overpaid. May as well keep him because he won't return much value in a trade at 6.6m and the cap going down next year.

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02-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #215
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You can't say you watch the Avs and then pretend Staz doesn't create 2-3 really good scoring chances a game. It's either one or the other. Whether they get converted or not doesn't make Paul any less of an excellent passer. Add in he's a top notch faceoff guy and very good two way center who chips in 20 goals every year, and Paul's a capable #1 center, who could easily be the #2 C on a Cup winner.

And then you use the moronic "playing with better wingers means they're better" argument which doesn't hold up to even the slightest bit of thought. Letting your teenager 3rd overall pick Center play with better wingers while your experienced vet has to make it work with whatever's left is such an obvious course of action when your rebuilding and developing a young guy. That's one I shouldn't even have to explain to you.

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02-17-2013, 04:52 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
I watch the Avs quite a bit actually. Being in the east, I usually watch 1 western game per night. As I already stated, Chris Stewart and Matt Duchene were a big part in me starting to watch Colorado on a semi regular basis.

I see Stastny making plays that any other average 2nd liner makes. He doesn't do anything special. Top line playmakers make their line mates better and create opportunities. Stastny doesn't seem to do that. He seems to make generic plays that result in a whole lot of nothing.

I'm not solely basing everything on stats, but guys making 6.6 million dollars annually are expected to put up numbers, something Stastny hasn't done for what's going on 3 years now.


Duchene and O'Reilly got the better wingers to play with because they were playing better. It's that simple. It's not some conspiracy against him, Joe Sacco wants to keep his job and will put whoever he thinks gives him the best chance out there.


Stastny's play has declined and there's really no disputing that. He's underproducing and overpaid. May as well keep him because he won't return much value in a trade at 6.6m and the cap going down next year.
What do you expect Stastny to do? He has obviously quit on Sacco, who hasn't on this team? Sacco expects this team to play dump and chase consistently, won't give them any creative freedom to carry it in, just wants them to be "his style", which has hampered Stastny.

O'Reilly got Landeskog because that was originally Colorado's checking line, but they meshed so well together and built such great chemistry that they eventually became the 1st line while also still being a checking line. In Duchene's case, he was used on the 4th line last season, on the wing, in the press box, everything because Sacco didn't like the way he played.

Lastly, your point about Stastny regressing is true, I think he has regressed too. He doesn't seem as dynamic as he was a few years ago and its a shame because he's still very young, this shouldn't happen to players in such a short time-frame. Maybe inconsistency, but its not that, it just seems like he's already lost a step. However, I do attribute some of his bad play to the wingers he's been given. He plays with Aaron Palushaj and David "68 goals in 250 games = 4 million dollars" Jones, who absolutely sucks and should be playing in the AHL at best because he's not a top 6 forward and he doesn't play like a bottom 6 player should either.

Everyone saw what Stastny could do at the end of last season with McGinn. Yes, it was a bit of a hot streak for him. However, McGinn has an amazing shot and was really feeling it. Give Stastny somebody, anybody who can finish and he will put up the points. He can get you the puck, there is no denying that, and he'll get it to you in prime scoring positions, he just needs you to finish the play. He can't set you up and then finish the play himself, so some of the blame goes to the wingers. His very good seasons that earned him the contract were playing with Milan Hejduk and Andrew Brunette, two guys who, albeit near the end of their respective careers, were playing very well and finishing their opportunities when Stastny set them up. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Stastny's wingers over the last 3 seasons, save for Chris Stewart until he got traded

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:47 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trembz420 View Post
CHACHING!!! Thats gold
It didn't fly on the Hab's board either.
-----


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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Minnesota and Colorado laugh at you and tell you to take your trades back to a video game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Eller should be going to Colorado for Stastny and if they wanted Weber, Kaberle or Gionta as throw-ins they are free to have them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Yeah, neither of those are happening. Furthermore, I don't want Bouchard at all.

You know, you have to think about the other team and why would they want to do this, not just why you'd do it from a habs pov.

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02-17-2013, 06:56 PM
  #218
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It didn't fly on the Hab's board either.
-----
I meant it, im all for that trade

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02-17-2013, 06:58 PM
  #219
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The Mike Ribiero and Derek Roy trades should be the models for a Stastny deal.

EDIT: That said, trading him wouldn't be ideal given the situation with Ryan O'Reilly.

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Old
02-17-2013, 07:36 PM
  #220
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I don't understand why this is a thread. It's pretty clear to me that Stastny is a going to be here for quite a while after ROR is traded.

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