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NE Prediction: Montreal/Toronto

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07-11-2006, 01:15 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Almothegreat View Post
The team played better without him, he is horrible in his own end and is very slow for the new NHL, he consistenly turned the puck over also.
Who is replacing his production? You had a nice run without him in the lineup because the team geled with all those call ups, but it doesn't mean they can carry it over for a full season. You guys really have to take that streak at the end with a grain of salt. Your season over by the time the team left MTL. The kids and Aubin were playing for jobs/contracts, while Sundin went on the hottest streak of his career. I dont think either of those things can be sustained over the long haul.

Going by your logic, the Leafs had a great run in the 2002 playoffs without Sundin. As soon as Sundin stepped back into the lineup, the team started losing. Does it mean you are better without Sundin?

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07-11-2006, 01:19 PM
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Who is replacing his production? You had a nice run without him in the lineup because the team geled with all those call ups, but it doesn't mean they can carry it over for a full season. You guys really have to take that streak at the end with a grain of salt. Your season over by the time the team left MTL. The kids and Aubin were playing for jobs/contracts, while Sundin went on the hottest streak of his career. I dont think either of those things can be sustained over the long haul.

Going by your logic, the Leafs had a great run in the 2002 playoffs without Sundin. As soon as Sundin stepped back into the lineup, the team started losing. Does it mean you are better without Sundin?
Sundin means more to the team that Jason Allison does, why should we take it with a grain of salt? Winning is winning, Im sure no other team in the league would take a point streak of that many games with a grain of salt, why should Toronto?

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07-11-2006, 01:23 PM
  #28
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The two teams were pretty close last season at the tail end (3 points), but the Leafs accumulating all those points in the last 12 games counts for jack ***** when considering that there was no pressure on them. Their season was basically over after the thumping they took in Montreal.

We can sit there and and do a <>= on every single player between each team for the rest of the summer, but we all know a good hockey team is never the sum of it's parts.

However, what you can do is look at the three positions as a whole and decide how they rank.

Defense: Leafs have better top 3 (at least in terms of putting up points), but Habs have better 4 to 6. The Habs have more speed out of the back end. Right now it's even. I would have given the Leafs the advantage if they had not signed Hal Gill. He ruins the top 3. Plain and simple, he is a negative.

Goaltending: Habs have the Leafs beat no matter how you slice it. Huet / Aebi out rank whatever sieve the Leafs decide to go with. As of right now, if Huet falters we still have Aebi. If Raycroft falters (or remains like he was last year), the Leafs have Tellqvist. There is a big difference there.

Offense --

Leafs had more goals last season, but that's because of an outstanding powerplay, not because they had more talent up front. They have lost Allison who was their second leading point getter amongst forwards. His production still needs to be replaced. We were supposed to see more skill and speed added to the lineup but that has yet to happen. In the end, the Leafs remain slow and soft at the forward position.

Habs have the same group as last season. The skill level and speed are both there, but maturity level remains a concern throughout the lineup. If we acquire another couple of scorers (and I think we will with the cap room available), the Habs definitely have the advantage.

I dont know how to rank either team's offense as of right now since both have noted question marks.

Since goaltending makes all the difference, Habs are better.

As far as I am concerned, the Leafs remain the worst of the Canadian teams. That is what I stated last off-season (and I was right) and that is the case again this off-season.
amen

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07-11-2006, 01:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Almothegreat View Post
Sundin means more to the team that Jason Allison does,
So then why did you start losing when Sundin stepped back into the lineup in the 2002 playoffs?

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why should we take it with a grain of salt? Winning is winning, Im sure no other team in the league would take a point streak of that many games with a grain of salt, why should Toronto?

Because it meant nothing at the time it happened. Winning at the right time matters more than winning at a time when nothing is at stake.

Going by your logic, 10 game winning streak in October = 10 game winning streak in March.

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07-11-2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Almothegreat View Post
Sundin means more to the team that Jason Allison does, why should we take it with a grain of salt? Winning is winning, Im sure no other team in the league would take a point streak of that many games with a grain of salt, why should Toronto?
When your eliminated your eliminated, it doesnt mean anything.

Im sure Colombus, Pittsburg dont take their ending of season seriously.

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07-11-2006, 01:26 PM
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So then why did you start losing when Sundin stepped back into the lineup in the 2002 playoffs?




Because it meant nothing at the time it happened. Winning at the right time matters more than winning at a time when nothing is at stake.

Going by your logic, 10 game winning streak in October = 10 game winning streak in March.
Thats an excellent question, I think the main reason was that it wasnt only Sundin coming back into the lineup, it was more than one player.

When Sundin came in, he played well



Game 1, means just as much as game 82.

Winning ten in a row in October gets you the same amount of points as winning ten in a row in March

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07-11-2006, 01:28 PM
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When your eliminated your eliminated, it doesnt mean anything.

Im sure Colombus, Pittsburg dont take their ending of season seriously.

Toronto was eliminated on game 81, you cant compare them to lottery teams

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07-11-2006, 01:32 PM
  #33
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[B]

Winning ten in a row in October gets you the same amount of points as winning ten in a row in March
Yes they all count for the same in the standings, but it doesn't tell the whole story. If you had two 95 point team heading into the playoffs. One had accumulated 60 points in the first half but then slumped badly in the second half, while the other team accomplished the reverse (terrible first half, great second half), who do you choose?

I choose the team with the great second half simply because they performed great under pressure. The cheap points accumulated from October to December are for dogs. That's what the Senators do year in year out when there is no pressure.

The Habs had that great start (12-3). I wasn't fooled one bit and in the end, they still had to win in March in order to make it.

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07-11-2006, 04:22 PM
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I will also like to add who the team lost. Losing Domi, Khavanov, Berg and Allison makes us a better team. Adding Kubina and even Gill with the loses of the other players makes us an even better team.

Just another way to look at it
You forgot the one big name that cost us more points then any other Leaf last year..............Belfour........his goaltending was nothing short of atrocious.......him being replaced alone will improve our team a great deal......Raycroft will be a big upgrade imo.....

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07-11-2006, 04:25 PM
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what?i was thinking about those 2 as well but the opposite, Higgins is a solid 2-way player while Tucker is a good pest who scores from time to time, had one great year..
Tucker is the complete package..in fact I daresay he can do more than Higgins, especially right now. Higgins has not proven he can be better than Darcy at anything yet.

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07-11-2006, 04:31 PM
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Tucker is the complete package..in fact I daresay he can do more than Higgins, especially right now. Higgins has not proven he can be better than Darcy at anything yet.
well said sir........cant wait to play you guys again......always fun......Tor/Mon, thats hockey!!

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07-11-2006, 04:42 PM
  #37
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You forgot the one big name that cost us more points then any other Leaf last year..............Belfour........his goaltending was nothing short of atrocious.......him being replaced alone will improve our team a great deal......Raycroft will be a big upgrade imo.....
Theo cost us a more than a few points last year too...so for the sake of arguement, lets call that a draw.

On paper, neither the habs or the leafs are beating the Sens and the Buffalo consistenty. But then again, who would have predicted an Edm/Canes final.

There's a reason they play the actual game...but I do find these "my team is better than your team" threads comical; especially when it's July!!!

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07-11-2006, 04:42 PM
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Tucker is the complete package..in fact I daresay he can do more than Higgins, especially right now. Higgins has not proven he can be better than Darcy at anything yet.
so tucker has a good last year and you say this even though higgins is better then tucker defensively and tucker has had 1 good point producing season out of how many???
plus higgins actualy has a head on his shoulder and is not vastly under-respected by other players like tucker is
higgins bee-atch straight up.

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07-11-2006, 04:55 PM
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Theo cost us a more than a few points last year too...so for the sake of arguement, lets call that a draw.

On paper, neither the habs or the leafs are beating the Sens and the Buffalo consistenty. But then again, who would have predicted an Edm/Canes final.

There's a reason they play the actual game...but I do find these "my team is better than your team" threads comical; especially when it's July!!!
Good post and I agree bout the goaltending last year and you are 100% right about the "my team is better than your team" threads .....they are more childish then comical thou imo lol.........cant wait to play you guys next season.......good luck next season and until then cheers.....

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07-11-2006, 05:19 PM
  #40
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so tucker has a good last year and you say this even though higgins is better then tucker defensively and tucker has had 1 good point producing season out of how many???
plus higgins actualy has a head on his shoulder and is not vastly under-respected by other players like tucker is
higgins bee-atch straight up.

Tucker has had this season with high offensive totals, and the year in 2002 when he collected 59 points, second only to Mats on the team. Tucker has the offense, he used to play the PK at times, he hits, fights, does absolutely anything to win, just take a look at his face during the time he makes the playoffs.
Higgins on the other hand hasnt even had a year yet where you can truly judge him, you gotta at least wait another season. Until then, no, he isnt better than Darcy. I love Higgins, but please..a little perspective.

As for the respect issue, ask any player in the league, they'll say Tucker is a ***** to play against(which is what you want) but they'd all love to have him on their side.

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07-11-2006, 05:32 PM
  #41
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Tucker has had this season with high offensive totals, and the year in 2002 when he collected 59 points, second only to Mats on the team. Tucker has the offense, he used to play the PK at times, he hits, fights, does absolutely anything to win, just take a look at his face during the time he makes the playoffs.
Higgins on the other hand hasnt even had a year yet where you can truly judge him, you gotta at least wait another season. Until then, no, he isnt better than Darcy. I love Higgins, but please..a little perspective.

As for the respect issue, ask any player in the league, they'll say Tucker is a ***** to play against(which is what you want) but they'd all love to have him on their side.
Well said. Hell, just look at my avatar and tell me you wouldn't want this guy on your team in the playoffs.

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07-11-2006, 05:38 PM
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Well said. Hell, just look at my avatar and tell me you wouldn't want this guy on your team in the playoffs.
I'll go further then that and tell you I wish we had never even traded him away. Fact is, we traded him away before truly giving him the chance to show what he could do.
Tucker obviously had skills, look at his junior offensive totals..he changed tactics when coming into the NHL, and developed a different style a bit, but produces more than enough for what he was supposed to be giving in his type of role.
He's a warrior in a small framed body, and that alone deserves respect in my books.

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