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Old
02-16-2013, 01:03 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Sounds like a guy accepting it like its something that just happens and is okay.

I wish he'd be as mad as Boyle, because the difference is, if he plays a game like Boyle did against the Isle he'll actually make a difference.
Yeah, it's obviously hard to tell from one quote but that doesn't sound terribly convincing. I remember reading a few weeks back when Torts was talking about benching Gabby, Richards said something about how he and Gabby and Nash didn't need to be benched to know they weren't playing well and benching them wouldn't help. Sounded...not encouraging. Boyle took it the right way and came out and played harder for it, and you're absolutely right, if Richards did the same, he'd be a huge difference maker.

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02-16-2013, 01:35 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
So, two years ago, the team was mediocre, barely snuck into the playoffs, and lost immeidately. The biggest roster change they made the following summer was adding Brad Richards. Last year, the team went to the conference finals despite lacking truly ideal linemates for Richards.

Yeah, what a horrendous addition he's been.

No doubt, he's playing quite poorly so far this season. The vitriol toward him, however, is being magnified by the abysmal PP. He's one reason the PP has been dreadful; he's not the only reason.

I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He's never succeeded based on his physical skills, so I have a hard time believing that he just forgot how to play.

The fact remains that thanks to the backwards manner in which this team was constructed, thanks to the fact that this team has continued to fail to develop a homegrown #1 center now going on over 30 years, there was basically no choice but to sign Brad Richards two summers ago. Unless y'all wanted this team to remain a mediocre bubble team for two years waiting for the possibility that Ryan Getzlaf will be available.
You could argue the big change was the maturation of our D especially McD's rise, Girardi raising his game further and even Stralman being a legit top 4 player added to Lundqvists best season. Regardless the problem is we signed him for good things yesterday but it seems almost a certainty that the near tomorrow and perhaps the present is Richards being another very poor performing, overpaid, C which we have all too much familiarity with. If you feel he can regain some semblance of his form then obviously yea we have to keep him it'd be crazy to what go back to the Eric Cris era. But the worries about BR are very legitamate. Every1 raves about his brains, playmaking and passing but, and I admit my inexperience, no one seems to see it from him this year or much last year either. He doesn't seem to control the puck or dictate play, he has failed to QB our PP, I don't see him make many Def plays or break up anything in the neutral zone. I just never notice him doing much of anything which makes the mistakes, the really dumb mistakes he has consistently made this year, really stand out. I did say there's no WAY he can continue to play this bad this year but this seems to me a sign of what we are going to get and very soon from him. If so I would have no problem hitting eject

These boards are clearly VERY melodramatic but this is not vitriol in the least from me and I don't see it from several others (Though there is obvious Reddenning going on from a fanbase that wants someone to overachieve rather than fall off a cliff prematurely for once). This is concern from me though not vitriol and hate...though o course like any normal person/fan I likely will start to hurl insults and spits in his direction if he doesn't unfirk himself soon.

If he doesn't turn this around I have zero rpoblem with cutting bait. The last few years have proven that partly thanks to the cap good players will become available and this is a team that only needs a few good ones not elite ones because even if it is built "backwards" it is built and it is capable.

Look to the future at the cap. It's a choice of retain BR and his underwhelming performance thus far or cut bait and have money to retain a combination of Staal, McD, Girardi, MDZ, Cally, Hank. (Some combination of them obviously 6.6 doesn't cover all of them) and with BR's length a mistake in keeping him has far reaching consequences that aren't worth it to me. It is possible that signing him like we did was the right choice but only because we got what we needed from him last year and have a no penalty escape route. Without the escape route this could easily turn and turn badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The buy-out stuff is stupid to think about until this summer. Im pretty damn positive that management isn't thinking about buying out their #1 center right now.
We are fans and have no influence on anything that this team does so why is it stupid to wonder and discuss this? Other than the fact that you don't like the option? He needs to play like a 1C in order to be considered one and right now he's played like an old idiot. What will he be 2 or 3 years from now with multiple years to go? It's a legit discussion.


Last edited by shinchanyo: 02-16-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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Old
02-16-2013, 01:44 PM
  #178
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"It's not fun (being benched), but it's happened before, and it'll happen again if I'm not better," explained Richards, who has two goals, eight assists, ten points, and is a +5 on the season. "I really hated waiting two days to get back at it today. I wanted to get back to work, and I actually wish there was a game today and get headed back in the right direction."
http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/25...y#.UR_S36WsiSp

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Old
02-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
Hitting the nail on the head as per usual.

If Brad Richards hasn't earned some leeway then who has? Calling out a guy for playing badly and stating that he needs to improve is one thing (well, two things technically I guess), but completely reversing course and calling for a buyout or a trade after the guy made a huge positive impact just a season ago reeks of shortsighted impatience.

If this continues all season and the teams ends up disappointing the maybe it will be time to have this conversation, but there is zero need to be having it now.
How is shortsightedness seeing the writing on the wall for the next 7 years ahead? One group however is looking long term, and feels he will return to the form he HAD. Others are looking long term seeing what we have now and looking at what happenned with previous old signings and it's very warranted that we wonder if we will need to do this to avoid hamstringing this franchise moving forward.

We're both looking ahead but we're just looking at different things


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Old
02-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #180
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Would love to get Getzlaf, but he is yet another guy who is not by any means a great skater. If Richards doesn't fit in with this system and people are complaining about him, what will happen to Getzlaf???

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02-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #181
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Regarding the amnesty buyout - I am not so sure we can use one this Summer since we already bought out Redden. I believe we may have to wait until the following Summer, which if true arguably works in our favour because we get another year out of Brad before we would be forced to terminate his deal and move in another direction.

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02-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
Regarding the amnesty buyout - I am not so sure we can use one this Summer since we already bought out Redden. I believe we may have to wait until the following Summer, which if true arguably works in our favour because we get another year out of Brad before we would be forced to terminate his deal and move in another direction.
You can use them whenever you like.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:34 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
Regarding the amnesty buyout - I am not so sure we can use one this Summer since we already bought out Redden. I believe we may have to wait until the following Summer, which if true arguably works in our favour because we get another year out of Brad before we would be forced to terminate his deal and move in another direction.
Buy out Richards in 2014. Malkin miracuously becomes a UFA. Sign Malkin.

Wake up from the dream.

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:17 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by tomcatNYR View Post
Buy out Richards in 2014. Malkin miracuously becomes a UFA. Sign Malkin.

Wake up from the dream.
hoping that could be a reality!! hahaha


stasny is UFA as well

its not that richards isn't good, you know he'll decline and you dont want him to be your number 1 center at 36years old so i mean its pretty much inevitable.

as god father put it...its nothing personal just business..

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:19 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
How is shortsightedness seeing the writing on the wall for the next 7 years ahead? One group however is looking long term, and feels he will return to the form he HAD. Others are looking long term seeing what we have now and looking at what happenned with previous old signings and it's very warranted that we wonder if we will need to do this to avoid hamstringing this franchise moving forward.

We're both looking ahead but we're just looking at different things
Yeah, some people are extrapolating off of a small sample size of bad performance while others are taking a wider view. Again, if this continues all season then I'll start to worry. Way too early for this kind of discussion right now though.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:53 PM
  #186
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Richards will eventually need to be bought out. If he is on this team for more than 2 more seasons he will be known as the worst contract in hockey. As far as I see it there are two options:
1) buy him out at the end of this season or trade him, trade Gaborik as well and bring in a Perry/Getzlaf combo.
2) keep Gaborik and resign him for two years, buy out Richards and bring in a centre from the 2014 class...

Richards is right now an asset despite his poor defensive performance but he will deteriorate quickly in the coming years.

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02-17-2013, 07:47 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Richards will eventually need to be bought out. If he is on this team for more than 2 more seasons he will be known as the worst contract in hockey. As far as I see it there are two options:
1) buy him out at the end of this season or trade him, trade Gaborik as well and bring in a Perry/Getzlaf combo.
2) keep Gaborik and resign him for two years, buy out Richards and bring in a centre from the 2014 class...

Richards is right now an asset despite his poor defensive performance but he will deteriorate quickly in the coming years.
I like option 2.

Teams are desperate for 1Cs and one of them will pony up for Richards, despite his contract.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:25 AM
  #188
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Have to agree with those who say the hate for Richy is getting a bit steep.

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02-18-2013, 12:33 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
You could argue the big change was the maturation of our D especially McD's rise, Girardi raising his game further and even Stralman being a legit top 4 player added to Lundqvists best season.
The defense was a big factor, but the team was elite defensively in 2010-11, too, when those guys were younger. The 2011-12 squad was a little bit better offensively. Not better enough, but better. Richards (even with his underwhelming statistical production) made a significant difference on the ice, and you can be sure he helped Del Zotto produce.

Lundqvist's best season? It was easily the best, deepest team that Lundqvist has played with in the NHL. How exactly was his season better? All of his seasons are great, the success just wasn't there with below average or mediocre teams.

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Regardless the problem is we signed him for good things yesterday but it seems almost a certainty that the near tomorrow and perhaps the present is Richards being another very poor performing, overpaid, C which we have all too much familiarity with. If you feel he can regain some semblance of his form then obviously yea we have to keep him it'd be crazy to what go back to the Eric Cris era. But the worries about BR are very legitamate. Every1 raves about his brains, playmaking and passing but, and I admit my inexperience, no one seems to see it from him this year or much last year either. He doesn't seem to control the puck or dictate play, he has failed to QB our PP, I don't see him make many Def plays or break up anything in the neutral zone.
Based on what exactly is it almost a certainty? Also, past personnel mistakes have no relevance. Richards is not those players. Richards is his own entity.

No doubt that he has played poorly this year, but he wasn't as bad last season as some now seem to claim.

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I just never notice him doing much of anything which makes the mistakes, the really dumb mistakes he has consistently made this year, really stand out. I did say there's no WAY he can continue to play this bad this year but this seems to me a sign of what we are going to get and very soon from him. If so I would have no problem hitting eject
By this year, you mean three weeks into a lockout-shortened season with no training camp and Richards not playing in Europe.

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If he doesn't turn this around I have zero rpoblem with cutting bait. The last few years have proven that partly thanks to the cap good players will become available and this is a team that only needs a few good ones not elite ones because even if it is built "backwards" it is built and it is capable.
In 2011, the only real top playmaking center available was Brad Richards. In 2012, there were none.

We have a strong, deep team. We have a couple of spots where we could improve, but if we got rid of Richards, we would have one glaring need: a top line center, and that role happens to be the most important role on a hockey team. Can you guarantee that we will sign Getzlaf? Or that Malkin will become a free agent in 2014?

Quote:
Look to the future at the cap. It's a choice of retain BR and his underwhelming performance thus far or cut bait and have money to retain a combination of Staal, McD, Girardi, MDZ, Cally, Hank. (Some combination of them obviously 6.6 doesn't cover all of them) and with BR's length a mistake in keeping him has far reaching consequences that aren't worth it to me. It is possible that signing him like we did was the right choice but only because we got what we needed from him last year and have a no penalty escape route. Without the escape route this could easily turn and turn badly
I'm not sure I want Gaborik re-signed if he is looking for a long-term deal, and his salary would accomplish the job of keeping several of those players signed. IMO, Lundqvist and possibly Callahan will sign long-term deals at some discount to help retain other players. Some of those players aren't going to be worth keeping at the salaries they are going to command on the open market, anyway. Hopefully, they can be replaced from within. While we still aren't developing elite young talent often, we are producing solid NHL players consistently at this point, and we have a few players coming in the next 2-3 years that will be keepers. But do we have anyone in the system that can replace Richards? I don't see it.

Quote:
We are fans and have no influence on anything that this team does so why is it stupid to wonder and discuss this? Other than the fact that you don't like the option? He needs to play like a 1C in order to be considered one and right now he's played like an old idiot. What will he be 2 or 3 years from now with multiple years to go? It's a legit discussion.
It would be a legit discussion late in the season if he continues to play this poorly. At this point, it's premature fantasy talk based on less than a month of play. It's the kind of jump-to-conclusions rabidness that has infiltrated the world of sports, and the effect hasn't been positive.

For what it's worth, Richards played one of his best games of the season against Washington.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:35 AM
  #190
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He looked fine tonight. He's been playing like trash, but I'm not on board with the weird hype about buying him out and putting him on the 3rd/4th line.

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02-18-2013, 12:46 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
He looked fine tonight. He's been playing like trash, but I'm not on board with the weird hype about buying him out and putting him on the 3rd/4th line.
I agree with you. My big issue with Richards has been some of his nonchalant looking play with the puck. Careless, dangerous passes, and turnovers skating with the puck.

He was never a great skater to begin with. It almost seems to me like he didn't start the season in the best shape. That's something time will correct. He showed flashes tonight, that's for sure.

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02-18-2013, 01:36 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
So, two years ago, the team was mediocre, barely snuck into the playoffs, and lost immeidately. The biggest roster change they made the following summer was adding Brad Richards. Last year, the team went to the conference finals despite lacking truly ideal linemates for Richards.

Yeah, what a horrendous addition he's been.
Correlation=/=causation. The big difference between last year and the prior post-lockout years was Lundqvist doing 99% of the work instead of 98%. The offense actually declined from the prior season, remember?

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02-18-2013, 02:14 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by GhostOfSeanAvery View Post
Correlation=/=causation. The big difference between last year and the prior post-lockout years was Lundqvist doing 99% of the work instead of 98%. The offense actually declined from the prior season, remember?
A tiny bit maybe...

Richards was outstanding for us, scored so many huge goals for us last year... Phoenix, WC, Washington....guy has a bunch of big time goals for us...

He's been really disappointing this year, but he's got a lot of game left in him, he just needs to start playing.

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02-18-2013, 02:19 AM
  #194
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In the modern day NHL it is very rare that a complete all rounded player hits free agency unless his team is in a serious rebuild mode. Brad Richards has warts as a player but do not kid yourself he is a very damn decent player.

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02-18-2013, 03:07 AM
  #195
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In the modern day NHL it is very rare that a complete all rounded player hits free agency unless his team is in a serious rebuild mode. Brad Richards has warts as a player but do not kid yourself he is a very damn decent player.
The guy has 2 91 point seasons. He was Over a PPG with Dallas as little as only 2 years ago. With the way the Rangers play, I have no idea how Gaborik got 86 points in 2009 with us. We play a grind it out style and try to bang in shots from the point that get deflected. If Tortorella opens up the offense a bit more ( Like tonight's PP) Richards will be back annually scoring 75+ points a year. As the PP goes, so does Richards. He's good for 20 goals and 40-50 assists per season.

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02-18-2013, 05:01 AM
  #196
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Seems to me like Torts gave the boys the green light to open it up on the PP and suddenly the big boys specifically richards and nash got things moving pretty quickly.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:45 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
The guy has 2 91 point seasons. He was Over a PPG with Dallas as little as only 2 years ago. With the way the Rangers play, I have no idea how Gaborik got 86 points in 2009 with us. We play a grind it out style and try to bang in shots from the point that get deflected. If Tortorella opens up the offense a bit more ( Like tonight's PP) Richards will be back annually scoring 75+ points a year. As the PP goes, so does Richards. He's good for 20 goals and 40-50 assists per season.
Yes, thats a good point that we need to keep in mind, the way we're playing we'll not see a player way over PPG over a season nor do we really need one to be a successful team.

However Richards need to step up a bit from what he's shown so far this season, and I think he will as the season going on. For many athletes routines is very important for their game and as we all know, this season is just odd. Maybe it's just will take some time for him to find his top game.

Last year he was over 20 goals and 40 assist witch is more than fine for me especially as someone just pointed out many of those plays came in important situations, what he didn't was able to do was to run a deadly PP and that's something he, the rest of the team and the coaching staff needs to figure out, cuz now it's pretty pathetic.

And let's not forget that Brad seems to be a very good leader and mentor for all out young guys, something he never will credited for at any game sheet.

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02-18-2013, 05:54 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
The guy has 2 91 point seasons. He was Over a PPG with Dallas as little as only 2 years ago. With the way the Rangers play, I have no idea how Gaborik got 86 points in 2009 with us. We play a grind it out style and try to bang in shots from the point that get deflected. If Tortorella opens up the offense a bit more ( Like tonight's PP) Richards will be back annually scoring 75+ points a year. As the PP goes, so does Richards. He's good for 20 goals and 40-50 assists per season.
Injuries has unfortunately hampered Gaborik and messed up his shot, but he has been able to revamp his game and gone from sniper to garbage goaler.

Look at the goals he scored in 09-10 and all the goals since, it looks like two different players. In 09-10 he often carried the puck, created space with his speed and sniped it with deadly wristers. His one-timers were from further out and had a lot more velocity.

Ever since his goals have been more about his quick release, i.e. being able to get shots off in crowded areas, and being able to hide from coverage. His wrister is still accurate, but it has lost a lot of power.

While the production was similar, the 09-10 Gaborik was a far more valuable player than 11-12 Gaborik. The old one put opposing defences on their heels since he could score from anywhere, the current Gaborik is forgotten by the opposition and is barely noticable on a shift-to-shift basis.

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02-18-2013, 09:57 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Injuries has unfortunately hampered Gaborik and messed up his shot, but he has been able to revamp his game and gone from sniper to garbage goaler.

Look at the goals he scored in 09-10 and all the goals since, it looks like two different players. In 09-10 he often carried the puck, created space with his speed and sniped it with deadly wristers. His one-timers were from further out and had a lot more velocity.
He's always scored a lot of goals close to the net. He's averaging pretty much the exact same amount of shots per game as he was in the 09/10 season

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02-18-2013, 11:26 AM
  #200
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He's always scored a lot of goals close to the net. He's averaging pretty much the exact same amount of shots per game as he was in the 09/10 season
You may be right, I re-watched videos of his goals in the different seasons and they were not THAT different. More snipes from the top of the circles in 09/10 though.



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