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Cole's Plus/Minus: The Crosby and Vanek Show (w/ guest Craig Adams)

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:32 PM
  #151
Darth Vitale
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Keep the conversation to the game / directly related topics, and non-personal or


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02-17-2013, 05:36 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't think anyone gives you any grief because you think the team needs two top-6 wingers... Most agree with that. I think all grief is related to other opinions :p
Oh, you mean the sarcastic tone about the GM trying and the coaching staff.

Fear not, I have started feeding myself kool-aid by IV, so I should be good now.

Seriously, I know the Pens are a good regular season team. I know when guys get hurt, other guys step up. I know the GM is trying. I know the coach is a good guy. But, what's the standard supposed to be? I thought it was to win cups-- or at least compete for cups.

Here, I'll flip it on you: Persuade me, from a coaching, personnel, or any other perspective, that I should look at what I'm seeing right now and say 'this year, I really should think it's going to translate differently in the playoffs'.

If moves happen, if I see things tighten up, if I see the coach regularly making adjustments, if I see the Pens regularly winning the tight checking playoff caliber games, then I'll feel a lot more optimistic and readily will say so.

Until then, I apologize to all for not partaking in the regular season kool-aid party.

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02-17-2013, 05:40 PM
  #153
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I hope we do end up acquiring a winger. You look at history of Cup winners & there are one maybe two rookies in very rarely three if a couple of them aren't playing major roles.

It would be nice if with out injuries Despres is our only rookie in the line up come playoffs.

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02-17-2013, 05:44 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Oh, you mean the sarcastic tone about the GM trying and the coaching staff.

Fear not, I have started feeding myself kool-aid by IV, so I should be good now.

Seriously, I know the Pens are a good regular season team. I know when guys get hurt, other guys step up. I know the GM is trying. I know the coach is a good guy. But, what's the standard supposed to be? I thought it was to win cups-- or at least compete for cups.

Here, I'll flip it on you: Persuade me, from a coaching, personnel, or any other perspective, that I should look at what I'm seeing right now and say 'this year, I really should think it's going to translate differently in the playoffs'.

If moves happen, if I see things tighten up, if I see the coach regularly making adjustments, if I see the Pens regularly winning the tight checking playoff caliber games, then I'll feel a lot more optimistic and readily will say so.

Until then, I apologize to all for not partaking in the regular season kool-aid party.
Because we now have Vokoun to insulate Fleury's annual meltdown, Martin is no longer playing like a toolbag, our stars are healthy (knock on wood), and we now have the assets and cap space to inject some much-needed skill into the top 6.

The standard is always to win Cups. Fortunately, we've fared as well as anyone else in that regard since the regime change, in spite of some very formidable obstacles.

As if you can see this. I guess I'm just posting for everyone else's benefit.

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02-17-2013, 05:48 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Oh, you mean the sarcastic tone about the GM trying and the coaching staff.

Fear not, I have started feeding myself kool-aid by IV, so I should be good now.

Seriously, I know the Pens are a good regular season team. I know when guys get hurt, other guys step up. I know the GM is trying. I know the coach is a good guy. But, what's the standard supposed to be? I thought it was to win cups-- or at least compete for cups.

Here, I'll flip it on you: Persuade me, from a coaching, personnel, or any other perspective, that I should look at what I'm seeing right now and say 'this year, I really should think it's going to translate differently in the playoffs'.

If moves happen, if I see things tighten up, if I see the coach regularly making adjustments, if I see the Pens regularly winning the tight checking playoff caliber games, then I'll feel a lot more optimistic and readily will say so.

Until then, I apologize to all for not partaking in the regular season kool-aid party.
What I'd like to see from you is a list of coaches that, along with Bylsma, should be canned if they don't make it past the first round. I'm especially interested in your opinions on Queneville, Babcock, Laviolette, Torts, etc.

Also, different sport but very relevant to this discussion, would you have fired Bill Bellichick this year? 0 Super Bowl wins since Spygate.

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02-17-2013, 05:53 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
What I'd like to see from you is a list of coaches that, along with Bylsma, should be canned if they don't make it past the first round. I'm especially interested in your opinions on Queneville, Babcock, Laviolette, Torts, etc.

Also, different sport but very relevant to this discussion, would you have fired Bill Bellichick this year? 0 Super Bowl wins since Spygate.
can I answer instead? 2 or 3 superbowls if I am not mistaken I think Bylsma gets pass if we get in finals 2-3 times again

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:58 PM
  #157
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can I answer instead? 2 or 3 superbowls if I am not mistaken I think Bylsma gets pass if we get in finals 2-3 times again
It's an easy answer, of course. It just goes to show that there's a lot more to judge than just championships. When you're consistently one of the best regular season teams, and you've won a championship in the past few years, you shouldn't be panicking when you're first in your conference.

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02-17-2013, 06:01 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
What I'd like to see from you is a list of coaches that, along with Bylsma, should be canned if they don't make it past the first round. I'm especially interested in your opinions on Queneville, Babcock, Laviolette, Torts, etc.

Also, different sport but very relevant to this discussion, would you have fired Bill Bellichick this year? 0 Super Bowl wins since Spygate.
Queneville maybe he's a comparison with the last two years, Babcock before last year at least got past the first round, Laviolette hasn't been knocked out in the first round since he's been with the Flyers, Torts just isn't a very good coach. Football is an entirely different sport so I don't know what your talking about there.

I think if we get booted in the first round this year there should be a serious discussion about Bylsma's future. He's being given a pretty good team.

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02-17-2013, 06:05 PM
  #159
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Lets put it this way , if we don't win the cup this year (barring anymore serious injuries that has been a curse to this city since 09) then I will be much more negative next year than Kurt has been during his whole positing career. The pressure is definitely on to win. I've chalked up not winning since 09 to injuries , and bad timing with defense( some not performing well at all and some not ready) . But if no injuries this year heading into playoffs then we have absolutely no excuse. Period.

I'll be right along side Kurt in wanting to fire byslma, change this system . I've already been worried about it, but realize he isn't going anywhere right now anyways. Add that to the fact of what happened since 09 like I mentioned, I'm giving him one more chance to see what he can do with a healthy team ( and defense that is ready ) . This is most certainly the year. You do what it takes to win it all again.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:07 PM
  #160
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Lets put it this way , if we don't win the cup this year (barring anymore serious injuries that has been a curse to this city since 09) then I will be much more negative next year than Kurt has been during his whole positing career. The pressure is definitely on to win. I've chalked up not winning since 09 to injuries , and bad timing with defense( some not performing well at all and some not ready) . But if no injuries this year heading into playoffs then we have absolutely no excuse. Period.

I'll be right along side Kurt in wanting to fire byslma, change this system . I've already been worried about it, but realize he isn't going anywhere right now anyways. Add that to the fact of what happened since 09 like I mentioned, I'm giving him one more chance to see what he can do with a healthy team ( and defense that is ready ) . This is most certainly the year. You do what it takes to win it all again.
who's Kurt?

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02-17-2013, 06:09 PM
  #161
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Queneville maybe he's a comparison with the last two years, Babcock before last year at least got past the first round, Laviolette hasn't been knocked out in the first round since he's been with the Flyers, Torts just isn't a very good coach. Football is an entirely different sport so I don't know what your talking about there.

I think if we get booted in the first round this year there should be a serious discussion about Bylsma's future. He's being given a pretty good team.
I wonder why we didn't make it out of the 1st round in 2011.

I mean, we had all our...oh yeah. Right.

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02-17-2013, 06:10 PM
  #162
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+ dupes

+ orpik. game could of ended quietly but i liked the fact he got Ott the hell out of there

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:11 PM
  #163
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who's Kurt?
Ha.

Kirk.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:20 PM
  #164
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Queneville maybe he's a comparison with the last two years,
Yes. Lost in the first round in both years following their Cup win.

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Babcock before last year at least got past the first round,
A second round loss is an early playoff exit any way you look at it. I doubt KIRK or anybody criticizing Bylsma for our recent playoff struggles is feeling any better if we had lost in the second round instead of the first.

Quote:
Laviolette hasn't been knocked out in the first round since he's been with the Flyers,
So your standard of success appears to be not losing in the first round. Interesting. We'll see if that holds true if we happen to lose in the 2nd or 3rd round this season.

On a sidenote, Flyer fans appear to have turned on Lavvy if their recent "Should we fire Laviolette?" thread is any indication.

Quote:
Torts just isn't a very good coach.
Feel free to include some coaches you do think are good. Hitchock, McLellan, Sutter? Vigneault? How much rope do those guys get? Would you have fired Julien after blowing that 3-0 series lead to Philly in 2010? Would you have fired him had they lost in overtime to Montreal in Game 7 the following year?
Quote:
Football is an entirely different sport so I don't know what your talking about there.
Astute observation. We'll leave that one where it lays.

Quote:
I think if we get booted in the first round this year there should be a serious discussion about Bylsma's future. He's being given a pretty good team.
That should depend on how we go out. If it's a carbon copy of the Flyers series then I'll agree, but if the difference is simply a matter of goaltending like it was against Montreal I'll have a difficult time entertaining those thoughts.


Last edited by Malkin4Top6Wingerz: 02-17-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 06:23 PM
  #165
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It was 210 lbs and I think he was referring to Crosby's weight last season.
I accept the correction, point was, he came into the year above normal weight, and now that he's in game shape, he's playing to his potential.

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02-17-2013, 06:24 PM
  #166
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Sid's line had a strong game tonight. Sid had the kind of jump we see from him when he's on a tear. 3 points tonight, and could have had a couple more as well. I'd still like to see an upgrade over Dupuis in the top six, but you can't fault his production in the meantime.

Geno's line is a different story. They just don't seem to be on at 5 on 5. The bulk of Neal and Malkin's dangerous chances come when we're on the PP. But at 5 on 5, that line doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot. Geno, in particular, can't seem to buy a goal. I wonder if his wrist is bothering him? I remember he got slashed about a week into the season, and his goal scoring just hasn't been the same since then.

Fleury made some big saves, but he's still got issues with rebound control. A lot of those big saves were because of his own inability to hang onto the puck after the first save. He's still an adventure (and not in the good way) whenever he plays the puck behind his net, as well.

Sutter's line was kind of meh today. Sutter's been solid defensively, but he's not looking very dangerous in the offensive zone. It probably doesn't help that Kennedy's been garbage, but I was hoping for a bit more offense from him.

Martin had a solid game. I'm glad we're able to keeping saying that after most games this season. It's a refreshing change to saying "**** you, Martin" after most games last season.

I wish Bylsma would play the bottom pairing a bit more. Less than 10 minutes for Bortuzzo tonight is too little for my liking.

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02-17-2013, 07:25 PM
  #167
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Also, how did Geno not get an assist on Sid's PP goal in the first? Geno took the shot from the point, it bounced off the boards and Sid tucked it in the net.

Was the official ruling that Sid's original shot didn't go in, but the Buffalo player put it in his net, thus the unassisted goal?

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02-17-2013, 07:27 PM
  #168
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I accept the correction, point was, he came into the year above normal weight, and now that he's in game shape, he's playing to his potential.
Definitely. It was good info.. surprised this was the first we heard of it. 210 is pretty bulky for someone that's barely even 5'11".

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02-17-2013, 07:28 PM
  #169
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Also, how did Geno not get an assist on Sid's PP goal in the first? Geno took the shot from the point, it bounced off the boards and Sid tucked it in the net.

Was the official ruling that Sid's original shot didn't go in, but the Buffalo player put it in his net, thus the unassisted goal?
It didn't go in on Sid's shot, Weber stopped it on the goalline, then knocked it in himself, which negated Malkin's assist.

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02-17-2013, 07:29 PM
  #170
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Also, how did Geno not get an assist on Sid's PP goal in the first? Geno took the shot from the point, it bounced off the boards and Sid tucked it in the net.

Was the official ruling that Sid's original shot didn't go in, but the Buffalo player put it in his net, thus the unassisted goal?
He got an assist

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02-17-2013, 07:30 PM
  #171
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Or maybe not. The Score app has him with the assist but Gamecenter doesn't

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02-17-2013, 07:41 PM
  #172
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Or maybe not. The Score app has him with the assist but Gamecenter doesn't
From what I saw they originally gave assists to Malkin and Kunitz but later took them away and changed it to unassisted.

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02-17-2013, 07:57 PM
  #173
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- Somehow thought it was a 7PM start.... missed my first game of the year.
+ 100% win record when not watching.
+ I deduce from this thread and the box score that I would probably have been less than exhilarated if I had been watching, and it seems likely that Jiggy already wrote what I would have on Despres/Bortuzzo .

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02-17-2013, 08:01 PM
  #174
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I don't give this guy a lot of props, but Craig Adams is solid each and every game. I still wouldn't lose sleep if he's scratched or traded, but he is playing really well.

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02-17-2013, 08:11 PM
  #175
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I don't give this guy a lot of props, but Craig Adams is solid each and every game. I still wouldn't lose sleep if he's scratched or traded, but he is playing really well.
At this point, I'm more worried about how the third line is looking than the fourth line. The 4th line has consistently brought the effort pretty much every game this season. The third line has had its struggles.

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