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May 6 2007 (Official "Fire Ruff" thread)

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02-17-2013, 07:32 PM
  #226
Afino
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- He's presided over the complete mental meltdown of the teams most prized possession (myers)
What is that phrase?

Something about causality and correlation?

What proof do you have that it's Ruff's fault? Or is it "Lindy ruins everyone"?

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02-17-2013, 07:54 PM
  #227
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That's exactly how you sound. It's the same excuse that has been made for Ruff for years. "The players aren't good enough"... that's always been the excuse. Well, sorry... I'm not buying anymore (And I realize that THIS year we have a roster construction problem). When another coach comes in and loses for years, then we can talk.

Until then... Ruff is a coach whose lost touch with everything from the players to the game itself.

Here's What i know about the last 6 seasons :
- It took him over 4 years to put Vanek and Pommer together
- He hasn't won a playoff series while having a vezina goalie in his prime
- He's presided over the complete mental meltdown of the teams most prized possession (myers)
- He literally wanted nothing to do with a physical brand of hockey until an entire season was Kevorkianed by that mentality.

That's enough... right there... to place ALL the blame on him
This was just meant to disagree with the reasoning stated in the OP. I don't believe the roster being turned inside-out is a good indicator that it's Ruffs turn. The roster is as mediocre as it has ever been regardless of how many changes were made. Replace Leino's name with Torres or Moore. Replace Stafford's name with Kotalik. Replace Scott with Peters. Gerbe is the new Paille/MacArthur. McCormick has pretty much been groomed to be the Gaustad replacement, sans the faceoff prowess. Same ****, different names. Constantly swapping out one average NHL talent for another. The roster, talent-wise, is hinging almost entirely on Hodgson, Ennis, Myers and Grigorenko developing to their highest potential. Something even the best coach can't guarantee.

There are plenty of other indicators you could go with lol. Everything said in the quoted post, would've made for a better OP. Ruff doesn't seem to have a grasp on his players strengths and does a pretty shoddy job of putting the kids in places to succeed/develop. I can agree with that.


Last edited by Dreakon: 02-17-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 08:03 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Afino View Post
What is that phrase?

Something about causality and correlation?

What proof do you have that it's Ruff's fault? Or is it "Lindy ruins everyone"?

I can't wait for the day...when the team still craps monkey ****, it will still be GWB's, Lindy, Ted, Terry, Ryan, Thomas, Sabretooth, peanut vendor, popcorn girl, cotton candy guy's fault.

This team lacks talent, i could care less who is the coach. The crap will be the same, if your naive to think otherwise. Oh well

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02-17-2013, 08:08 PM
  #229
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afino View Post
What is that phrase?

Something about causality and correlation?

What proof do you have that it's Ruff's fault? Or is it "Lindy ruins everyone"?
you either hold coaches accountable for ****... or you dont. I'm not going to get into the ******** causality/correlation argument... that **** gets trotted out every time anyone wants to refute blame for those who actually have accountability.

people have spent years correlating a stanley cup run and 2 years of success in a post lockout NHL to Ruff being a good NHL coach.... let me ask, what proof do you have the Lindy Ruff was EVER a good NHL coach?

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02-17-2013, 08:09 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by schpaff View Post
I can't wait for the day...when the team still craps monkey ****, it will still be GWB's, Lindy, Ted, Terry, Ryan, Thomas, Sabretooth, peanut vendor, popcorn girl, cotton candy guy's fault.

This team lacks talent, i could care less who is the coach. The crap will be the same, if your naive to think otherwise. Oh well
So if you could care less why don't you?

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02-17-2013, 08:12 PM
  #231
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The talent IS the problem on this team, besides the top line, many of the other players wouldn't be able to crack another team's NHL roster, but for some reason, in Buffalo we try to win playoff series with them?

Midgets like Ennis and Gerbe?

John Scott getting a shift RIGHT after Pittsburgh made it 2-0?

Why do we take everyone else's castoffs and try to make a championship team with them?

I boycotted this team after 2008 until LQ and Golisano was gone and I'm close to boycotting again...

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02-17-2013, 08:14 PM
  #232
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John Scott getting a shift RIGHT after Pittsburgh made it 2-0?
That... would be a coaching problem.

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02-17-2013, 08:15 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpaff View Post
I can't wait for the day...when the team still craps monkey ****, it will still be GWB's, Lindy, Ted, Terry, Ryan, Thomas, Sabretooth, peanut vendor, popcorn girl, cotton candy guy's fault.

This team lacks talent, i could care less who is the coach. The crap will be the same, if your naive to think otherwise. Oh well
**** that noise... plenty of coaches have done more with less. Ruff has had a vezina caliber goalie in his prime, and enough talent on skates and he's done **** with it...

you want to know what a roster devoid of talent looks like, check out phoenix, and they went to a conference finals.

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02-17-2013, 08:16 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by rabi View Post
The talent IS the problem on this team, besides the top line, many of the other players wouldn't be able to crack another team's NHL roster, but for some reason, in Buffalo we try to win playoff series with them?

Midgets like Ennis and Gerbe?

John Scott getting a shift RIGHT after Pittsburgh made it 2-0?

Why do we take everyone else's castoffs and try to make a championship team with them?

I boycotted this team after 2008 until LQ and Golisano was gone and I'm close to boycotting again...
Maybe you can make it a permanent boycott this time.

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02-17-2013, 08:17 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
This was just meant to disagree with the reasoning stated in the OP. I don't believe the roster being turned inside-out is a good indicator that it's Ruffs turn. The roster is as mediocre as it has ever been regardless of how many changes were made. Replace Leino's name with Torres or Moore. Replace Stafford's name with Kotalik. Replace Scott with Peters. Gerbe is the new Paille/MacArthur. McCormick has pretty much been groomed to be the Gaustad replacement, sans the faceoff prowess. Same ****, different names. Constantly swapping out one average NHL talent for another. The roster, talent-wise, is hinging almost entirely on Hodgson, Ennis, Myers and Grigorenko developing to their highest potential. Something even the best coach can't guarantee.

There are plenty of other indicators you could go with lol. Everything said in the quoted post, would've made for a better OP. Ruff doesn't seem to have a grasp on his players strengths and does a pretty shoddy job of putting the kids in places to succeed/develop. I can agree with that.
Same ****, Same Coach

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02-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #236
Dreakon
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you want to know what a roster devoid of talent looks like, check out phoenix, and they went to a conference finals.
Playing devil's advocate again, if they got to the conference finals, what're the chances they aren't as devoid of talent as you think?

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02-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
And anyone who honestly believes a GM should in a public forum, hint at (or bluntly voice) negative feelings about their coach is

A GM calling out a coach on ANY level publicly is bush league and sophomoric.

What a GM says and does are two different things. Granted Regiers track record in regards to Ruff would say otherwise

This summer should be interesting ... Until then, I suffer.
Agreed. You can't pull public support for a coach in season. Take the Bills as an example. Nix was with Gailey, public ally supporting him in the media.

Gailey was gone right after the last game.

What a GM says, and what he does, aren't the same.

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02-17-2013, 08:21 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Playing devil's advocate again, if they got to the conference finals, what're the chances they aren't as devoid of talent as you think?
zero

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:26 PM
  #239
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zero
So coaching is, definitively, the difference between being a cup contender and a bottom feeder. No other factors play into it?

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02-17-2013, 08:27 PM
  #240
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So coaching is, definitively, the difference between being a cup contender and a bottom feeder. No other factors play into it?
not sure how you arrived at that conclusion based on my comments

a donkey could coach a really great or special team to contendership here and there (99, 05-06)

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02-17-2013, 08:36 PM
  #241
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not sure how you arrived at that conclusion based on my comments
A team devoid of talent makes it to the conference finals because of coaching (it certainly wasn't because of talent).

A team less devoid of talent lingers in mediocrity because of coaching (or lack thereof).

Sounds like talent doesn't really play that much of a role in it. It's all coaching.

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02-17-2013, 08:39 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
A team devoid of talent makes it to the conference finals because of coaching (it certainly wasn't because of talent).

A team less devoid of talent lingers in mediocrity because of coaching (or lack thereof).

Sounds like talent doesn't really play that much of a role in it. It's all coaching.
yea, i guess if every hockey team ever, fit into one of those 2 descriptions

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02-17-2013, 08:39 PM
  #243
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yea, i guess if every hockey team ever, fit into one of those 2 descriptions
I was explaining how I came to that conclusion based on your comments...

Must've missed the one where you detailed every hockey team ever.

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02-17-2013, 08:40 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
A team devoid of talent makes it to the conference finals because of coaching (it certainly wasn't because of talent).

A team less devoid of talent lingers in mediocrity because of coaching (or lack thereof).

Sounds like talent doesn't really play that much of a role in it. It's all coaching.
ONE SPECIFIC devoid of talent makes it to the conference finals because of coaching (it certainly wasn't because of talent).

ONE SPECIFIC team less devoid of talent lingers in mediocrity because of coaching (or lack thereof).

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02-17-2013, 08:43 PM
  #245
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I was explaining how I came to that conclusion based on your comments...

Must've missed the one where you detailed every hockey team ever.
oh...

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02-17-2013, 08:44 PM
  #246
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Could at least link me to it.

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02-17-2013, 08:46 PM
  #247
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you either hold coaches accountable for ****... or you dont. I'm not going to get into the ******** causality/correlation argument... that **** gets trotted out every time anyone wants to refute blame for those who actually have accountability.
It's not ********, Jame. And you know it.

You specifically phrased that "he's presided over...." to make it fit your point. Well no ****, he's presided over, he's the coach.

I'm not refuting blame. But there is ZERO ****ING PROOF that Ruff "ruined" Myers except for your bias. ZERO.

Ruff didn't "ruin" Vanek. Playing with Roy made Vanek not as good as he could be. But the popular opinion was that Ruff did it. I know your counter argument will be "well, a good coach would have gotten him away from Roy" and that's certainly a fine point. But a single coach doesn't "ruin" a player. Period.

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02-17-2013, 08:49 PM
  #248
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It's not ********, Jame. And you know it.

You specifically phrased that "he's presided over...." to make it fit your point. Well no ****, he's presided over, he's the coach.

I'm not refuting blame. But there is ZERO ****ING PROOF that Ruff "ruined" Myers except for your bias. ZERO.

Ruff didn't "ruin" Vanek. Playing with Roy made Vanek not as good as he could be. But the popular opinion was that Ruff did it. I know your counter argument will be "well, a good coach would have gotten him away from Roy" and that's certainly a fine point. But a single coach doesn't "ruin" a player. Period.
Black and white statements like that have just as much proof as Jame saying Ruff ruined Myers.

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02-17-2013, 08:50 PM
  #249
Jame
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It's not ********, Jame. And you know it.

You specifically phrased that "he's presided over...." to make it fit your point. Well no ****, he's presided over, he's the coach.

I'm not refuting blame. But there is ZERO ****ING PROOF that Ruff "ruined" Myers except for your bias. ZERO.

Ruff didn't "ruin" Vanek. Roy ruined Vanek. But the popular opinion was that Ruff did it. I know your counter argument will be "well, a good coach would have gotten him away from Roy" and that's certainly a fine point. But a single coach doesn't "ruin" a player. Period.

nice....you slipped your own belief (roy ruined vanek) past the correlation/causality detector

funny how that works...

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02-17-2013, 08:51 PM
  #250
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Black and white statements like that have just as much proof as Jame saying Ruff ruined Myers.
I see what you're getting at, but no, it's not the same thing.

Putting the singular blame on anyone but the person himself for his career heading down the wrong path is hatred/bias.

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