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Old
02-17-2013, 08:59 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
I can agree with this. If there is a line, I'd expect them to be outside yelling what to do when you enter, so it can move a bit faster. That wasn't the case when I was in line during the Blackhawks game(only game I've had to stand in line and wait a bit to enter).
Try Gate 1 on the southwest end. It's never taken us more than 5 minutes to get in.

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02-17-2013, 09:04 PM
  #752
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I could give a **** about who is letting me in, or what they act or look like, as long as I get in the arena I'm good. They could be Walmart greeters for all i care, probably costs less to employ them too

With that said, I'm a tad uncomfortable with the lack of contraband/paraphernalia searches. I mean I'm personally not used to that. In my line of work, we keep a high level of security. In a confined space capable of holding 18,000+, it should be the same. I walk through the metal detectors at the door and i trigger it everytime, as do the people in front, and behind me. Many things could be smuggled into a game no question, no hassle. If it takes a 20 year old to tell the head of security how to do his job, i won't hesitate to do so.

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02-17-2013, 09:12 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotesreign View Post
I notice when I try to time my arrival to arrive 10-15 minutes before game time, which has been MOST of the games this season, the lines are bad. But I just got so tired of arriving 45-55 minutes before the game time and seeing the arena so completely empty 45 minutes before game time. I think a lot of us are getting there at the same time now. I would appreciate if everyone else would start getting there 50-55 minutes before game time, so if I arrive 10-15 minutes before game time I would be able to waltz right in with no delays.

Thanks in advance to all who can oblige!

I always "aim" for 30 minutes before the start time listed on the schedule (which in practice is more like 40-45 minutes before the time the puck is actually dropped), assuming 45 minutes of drive time (I live in Tempe). Leaves plenty of buffer for traffic, which there often is on weeknight games, but less so on weekend games. They do two timers before the game (one counts down and when it ends the teams get off the ice so it can be resurfaced, after which it's reset to around 20 minutes, after which they do the national anthem and start the game). I've gotten to games with anywhere between 3 and 25 minutes left on the first timer.

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02-17-2013, 09:14 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
With that said, I'm a tad uncomfortable with the lack of contraband/paraphernalia searches.
When I brought my sister to last night's game against Columbus, they checked her purse before the game. And when I say "checked" I mean the guy who checked it glanced at it for approximately 2 seconds before waving her in.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, when I go to a Cardinals game I feel like they're about one step short of doing a full strip search on me.

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02-17-2013, 09:20 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Tricia McMillan View Post
When I brought my sister to last night's game against Columbus, they checked her purse before the game. And when I say "checked" I mean the guy who checked it glanced at it for approximately 2 seconds before waving her in.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, when I go to a Cardinals game I feel like they're about one step short of doing a full strip search on me.
Which, no offense ma'am, is the way it should be. By their lack of attention to detail, and fear of offending people, they are putting thousands of people at risk. I'm not a stickler, i have just seen situations in which higher levels of security should have been utilized. I hate to say it, but sports venues are absolutely number one targets for psychopathic people, such as the "mastermind" of the Sandy Hook shooting.

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02-17-2013, 10:18 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
Try Gate 1 on the southwest end. It's never taken us more than 5 minutes to get in.
I've historically had good luck entering through the gift shop (although it was closed one of the four games I've attended so far), or failing that the NW "employee" entrance. I showed up late last night for CLB and was shocked how long the lines were still...

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:05 AM
  #757
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Home opener was the longest I'd ever waited in line. That includes the playoffs. Not sure what the deal is this year, but they need to step it up.

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02-19-2013, 03:51 AM
  #758
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Where is the proof of this? Everything is a matter of public record and available online. These are official documents entered into the court, not ******** made up in the media.

http://docs.bmcgroup.com/phoenixcoyo...k-9488_110.pdf

If you want to go to bat for the league, fine. The evidence simply doesn't support it.


What you did was drink the kool-aid of one person's opinion from BoH. I know of someone who use to post there until he got run off (for reasons unknown) and who's just as knowledgable of the BK docs as anyone. He would tell you it's a ludicrous exercise in conspiracy theory.

I'm not defending the league by any means.... as I've been on record there being critical of their handling of the franchise since it was moved to Phoenix.

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02-19-2013, 04:05 AM
  #759
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It's fully within the jurisdiction of the bankruptcy court to void contracts. It happens all the time. The request to void was made in the proper form and the CoG for better or worse chose not to mount a heavy challenge.
Yet..... Judge Baum also said the lease was the "800 pound gorilla" in the room during the early days of the BK proceedings.

Judge Baum's task was to protect the secured creditors as much as possible. But he also wanted to avoid making a ruling that could open up a Pandora's box down the road.

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02-19-2013, 04:20 AM
  #760
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Sell the team for $90m to a deep pocketed owner, with a ~10m a year AMF and this team will be fine. But that requires compromise on the part of the league and the city. If I am the council, I do nothing but rail Bettman and anyone put forth on the asking price. Publicly flog them. Daily press releases about how the league is trying to sell the team for twice what it is worth, passing the burden to the city.

Don't let them hide out of the spotlight like this. It's absurd. Look at the deal the Blues sold for.



A much better team (and a less distressed asset) sold for $120 million + an AHL franchise (which can be resold) + a large share of the opera house. A venue which had just completed $79 million in renovations.

Yet the Coyotes are 'worth' 170 million. Are you ****ing kidding me Gary?
Bettman promised the other 29 owners that they would not lose a dime on the league ownership of the franchise. They bought the franchise out of BK for $140M and wrote off another $30M in losses for that year. Hence the $170M price tag.

However I'm in agreement with Whileee that the price needed to be dropped to somewhere in the neighborhood of what the market is worth which Forbes had at around $138M. The reasoning is the NHL bought the franchise for the specific reason to protect the league's exclusive rights to determine where they place franchises.

Sometimes you have to pay to protect those rights. The city of Glendale never was ask to help protect those rights.... it's been forced on them by the very people who should be paying for it..

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02-19-2013, 06:41 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Bettman promised the other 29 owners that they would not lose a dime on the league ownership of the franchise. They bought the franchise out of BK for $140M and wrote off another $30M in losses for that year. Hence the $170M price tag.

However I'm in agreement with Whileee that the price needed to be dropped to somewhere in the neighborhood of what the market is worth which Forbes had at around $138M. The reasoning is the NHL bought the franchise for the specific reason to protect the league's exclusive rights to determine where they place franchises.

Sometimes you have to pay to protect those rights. The city of Glendale never was ask to help protect those rights.... it's been forced on them by the very people who should be paying for it..
I think that the NHL owes Glendale, in a big way. I think that they were in a bind with Balsillie's gambit, and Glendale chose to support the NHL. In the video linked from the BoH, Judge Baum mentions that he explicitly asked Glendale counsel as to whether they would like to take a recess to consider Balsillie's offer of $50 million. He also noted how badly this worked out for Glendale when the NHL then dinged them for another $50 million to cover operating losses. This was all to the NHL's benefit. I think that they should have sucked it up, applied the Atlanta-Winnipeg transfer fee, dropped the price to $90-100 million, and seen if they could get a good owner on a long-term lease. They never did that, which is why the math has never worked. I am frankly quite surprised that there hasn't been more made of this in the media (especially in AZ). If the NHL never drops the price and then sells for relocation, then I think the NHL will have shamefully messed with Glendale. I know that this hasn't been a tradition in this saga, but I think it's time for Coyotes fans, Glendale and the local media to turn up the heat on the NHL.

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02-19-2013, 09:39 AM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I think that the NHL owes Glendale, in a big way. I think that they were in a bind with Balsillie's gambit, and Glendale chose to support the NHL. In the video linked from the BoH, Judge Baum mentions that he explicitly asked Glendale counsel as to whether they would like to take a recess to consider Balsillie's offer of $50 million. He also noted how badly this worked out for Glendale when the NHL then dinged them for another $50 million to cover operating losses. This was all to the NHL's benefit. I think that they should have sucked it up, applied the Atlanta-Winnipeg transfer fee, dropped the price to $90-100 million, and seen if they could get a good owner on a long-term lease. They never did that, which is why the math has never worked. I am frankly quite surprised that there hasn't been more made of this in the media (especially in AZ). If the NHL never drops the price and then sells for relocation, then I think the NHL will have shamefully messed with Glendale. I know that this hasn't been a tradition in this saga, but I think it's time for Coyotes fans, Glendale and the local media to turn up the heat on the NHL.
I agree with your post but I think that ship has come and gone. All of these tire kickers wasted everyone's time and whether or not the NHL planned it that way is not even relevant anymore.

From my opinion, I think Phoenix would be a better long term investment and it would work here. Places like QC are great at first but I doubt they can keep up the fever they say they have if they get a team. I give them 7 years maybe then they'll start to feel the pain. Not wishing that on them at all because losing a team sucks. You can have a rich owner but that doesn't keep people going to games.

The local media has flubbed up so many times on the Coyotes. Including reporting deals that are 'done' to stories that seem completely fabricated. I think if one sports caster decided to dig into what has gone on and what is really going on, like a pitbull, that person would gather quite a lot of attention. It's almost like everyone is afraid to ask hard questions. Not necessarily about any deal specifically but that Plan B, C and so on is for the team. We can all say 'it's obvious' what the next steps are but that rarely turns out to be true in this never ending saga.

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02-19-2013, 09:51 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I agree with your post but I think that ship has come and gone. All of these tire kickers wasted everyone's time and whether or not the NHL planned it that way is not even relevant anymore.

From my opinion, I think Phoenix would be a better long term investment and it would work here. Places like QC are great at first but I doubt they can keep up the fever they say they have if they get a team. I give them 7 years maybe then they'll start to feel the pain. Not wishing that on them at all because losing a team sucks. You can have a rich owner but that doesn't keep people going to games.

The local media has flubbed up so many times on the Coyotes. Including reporting deals that are 'done' to stories that seem completely fabricated. I think if one sports caster decided to dig into what has gone on and what is really going on, like a pitbull, that person would gather quite a lot of attention. It's almost like everyone is afraid to ask hard questions. Not necessarily about any deal specifically but that Plan B, C and so on is for the team. We can all say 'it's obvious' what the next steps are but that rarely turns out to be true in this never ending saga.
I agree that the media covering this story have been repeatedly snowed and spun by the NHL, potential owners and the COG. I think they could have been much more diligent in digging into things. The string of ownership candidates did nothing but raise false hopes. The NHL is the only entity that can solve this now.

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02-19-2013, 10:41 AM
  #764
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The increase in attendance figures this year (up 27% over last year) has to be a positive consideration for a prospective new owner. It shows that as the economy recovers and the team performs well on the ice, attendance will continue to grow.
After all, if the arena has 15,000 fans every game, it won't be long before we have a new owner.

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02-19-2013, 10:46 AM
  #765
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Attendance doesn't matter at this point. This has been analyzed ad nauseum. Either the league brings down the price tag to $ 100 - $ 130 M range, or the team moves. All other options have been tried.

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02-19-2013, 11:04 AM
  #766
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Attendance doesn't matter at this point. This has been analyzed ad nauseum. Either the league brings down the price tag to $ 100 - $ 130 M range, or the team moves. All other options have been tried.
Agreed. The only thing I would add is that the time for the NHL to have done that has effectively passed. They are playing out the string. For those locals, go see as many games as you can before the team leaves at the end of the season.

I know I am making every effort to use all my tickets instead of giving them to clients.

The media has given the NHL a free pass. I'm not sure I understand why exactly. It would seem to be a good story to write that would sell a lot of papers. Basically, the NHL took advantage of the CoG (an easy thing to do it appears), and not by just a little bit. The CoG built an arena for the NHL team, gave up a $50M payment from Ballsilly when it decided not to support his bid in the BK, and on top of that actually gave the NHL $50M over the last two years. People put their careers on the line based upon representations by the NHL. The CoG dedicated a tremendous amount of staff time to all things Coyotes. I mean, it is really sicking.


I can only hope some of this is brought to the light of day sometime soon. But let's not expect Sunnicks to write the article. The guy is lost and doesn't have the brain power to actually connect the dots and do the hard work of creating the time line necessary to tell the story.

Having said all that, it was nice to watch the game in front of a full house yesterday. And I would say less than 20% appeared to by Flame fans. And some of them already come to Coyote games and wear Coyote sweaters unless the Flames are visiting. One has to ask why yesterday, but in a week for the Wild game it looks like less than 12k tickets are sold thus far. I scratch my head when it comes to attendance issues.

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02-19-2013, 11:31 AM
  #767
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Agreed. The only thing I would add is that the time for the NHL to have done that has effectively passed. They are playing out the string. For those locals, go see as many games as you can before the team leaves at the end of the season.

I know I am making every effort to use all my tickets instead of giving them to clients.

The media has given the NHL a free pass. I'm not sure I understand why exactly. It would seem to be a good story to write that would sell a lot of papers. Basically, the NHL took advantage of the CoG (an easy thing to do it appears), and not by just a little bit. The CoG built an arena for the NHL team, gave up a $50M payment from Ballsilly when it decided not to support his bid in the BK, and on top of that actually gave the NHL $50M over the last two years. People put their careers on the line based upon representations by the NHL. The CoG dedicated a tremendous amount of staff time to all things Coyotes. I mean, it is really sicking.


I can only hope some of this is brought to the light of day sometime soon. But let's not expect Sunnicks to write the article. The guy is lost and doesn't have the brain power to actually connect the dots and do the hard work of creating the time line necessary to tell the story.

Having said all that, it was nice to watch the game in front of a full house yesterday. And I would say less than 20% appeared to by Flame fans. And some of them already come to Coyote games and wear Coyote sweaters unless the Flames are visiting. One has to ask why yesterday, but in a week for the Wild game it looks like less than 12k tickets are sold thus far. I scratch my head when it comes to attendance issues.
The problem with Sunnucks is that his main sources have always been one of the carpetbaggers who were trying to buy the team with as little investment of their own money as possible. They duped Sunnucks and several on Glendale city council.

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02-19-2013, 01:07 PM
  #768
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It may be too little too late, but to a new prospective owner that can work out a reasonable price tag for the team with the NHL and a sweet deal with the CoG, attendance means everything moving forward.
The fact that attendance is trending upwards is very positive. Why not accept at the positives if we are going to dwell on the negatives.

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02-19-2013, 01:48 PM
  #769
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Attendance doesn't matter at this point. This has been analyzed ad nauseum. Either the league brings down the price tag to $ 100 - $ 130 M range, or the team moves. All other options have been tried.
Agreed. Thej NHL has totally F***ed this up. Attendance is up - so what? Assuming for one and a half seconds that if the NHL were to think "oh, hey, maybe we can run the team another year here with whatever Glendale will give us plus this increased attendance!" - it would be a significant challenge for them to build on the ST numbers with that. On the other hand, if they had sold the team by 1/31, or sell the team (to some group that would keep it here) before the playoffs - that new owner would have a much better shot at retaining STs and grabbing new ones - assuming of course they have a lease that keeps them here at least 5 more years.

As far as selling it after the season for relocation - unless they're selling it to a Canadian market that could sell out in hours - they'd be better off selling it as soon as the Yotes play their last game here.

I'm convinced this is the last season here. I'm enjoying the games and expect the last game I go to to be the last NHL game played here. So the talk about how much tickets need to be or hey we sold out a game again is just talk - means little to me at this point. I agree with (Goyotes?) whoever said its more fun to be at the game with 15,000+ fans than to be there with only 10,000 fans. But I sit low enough in the upper bowl that I can ignore the empty seats behind me and keep my eyes on the ice and somewhat ignore the empty seats in the corners downstairs. Even when I get up to walk around between periods, I pretty much can ignore the empty seats at those low attended games.

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02-19-2013, 02:02 PM
  #770
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I'm still not necessarily convinced that this is our last season here, but at this point I do consider relocation an inevitability. Whether it's this season or the next, or even later, the factors deciding when it happens are unrelated to our market.

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02-19-2013, 02:27 PM
  #771
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Why not accept at the positives if we are going to dwell on the negatives.
It's way, way, way too late to look at attendance as a positive. It's completely beside the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
a new prospective owner that can work out a reasonable price tag for the team with the NHL and a sweet deal with the CoG, attendance means everything moving forward.
#1 has never been shown to be a possibility over the past 4 or 5 years.
#2 has been tried and failed

Look, all business plans proposed assumed average attendance to be around 14,000+ every game + substantial help from the city in order to break even. Nobody's ever considered actually making any money in Arizona. That's just not going to happen with hockey. There'll be good years, bad years, and overall you just want to be averaging a zero net loss.

The only upside is an increase in value over time. The only way that's a possibility is for the owner to buy for roughly $ 100 to 130 M (which Hulsizer was pretty much doing by having taxpayers front the rest), and shoot for a $ 170 to $ 200 M sale once the franchise has stabilized. This is the ONLY thing that matters at this point. Period.

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02-19-2013, 05:51 PM
  #772
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The media has given the NHL a free pass. I'm not sure I understand why exactly.
We're a non-traditional market, they want to see us fail and they want to see a team moved North. It's that simple. If we were a Canadian team there would be torches and pitchforks as far as the eye can see!

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02-20-2013, 03:32 PM
  #773
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I'm attending the Coyotes games this year like the team is moving. I would have loved to get to more games but my life and schedule only allows so much time to spend 3-4 hours going to a game. I will be there every game of the playoffs regardless and I will be at the last game played in the building.

Anything else right now is just blind optimism, which is fine if you want to buy into that, but I'm a realist. This team was poorly run for too long and we got to this point not based on the present but based on the past. The years of 1999-2009 have more to do with the franchise leaving than anything today.

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02-20-2013, 06:04 PM
  #774
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We're a non-traditional market, they want to see us fail and they want to see a team moved North. It's that simple. If we were a Canadian team there would be torches and pitchforks as far as the eye can see!
Probably.

I guess that has something to do with the apathy that exists in the market itself.

Picture rallies with thousands in attendance; local media that gives a crap; vocal locals making a stand for the club's future in the desert.

Alas, the franchise is dying a slow, silent death in the valley.

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02-20-2013, 06:21 PM
  #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I agree with your post but I think that ship has come and gone. All of these tire kickers wasted everyone's time and whether or not the NHL planned it that way is not even relevant anymore.

From my opinion, I think Phoenix would be a better long term investment and it would work here. Places like QC are great at first but I doubt they can keep up the fever they say they have if they get a team. I give them 7 years maybe then they'll start to feel the pain. Not wishing that on them at all because losing a team sucks. You can have a rich owner but that doesn't keep people going to games.

The local media has flubbed up so many times on the Coyotes. Including reporting deals that are 'done' to stories that seem completely fabricated. I think if one sports caster decided to dig into what has gone on and what is really going on, like a pitbull, that person would gather quite a lot of attention. It's almost like everyone is afraid to ask hard questions. Not necessarily about any deal specifically but that Plan B, C and so on is for the team. We can all say 'it's obvious' what the next steps are but that rarely turns out to be true in this never ending saga.
The Nordiques did not move so much because of attendance issues.

Player salaries, for the most part paid in US $, kept on rising while the weak Canadian dollar caused problems for all (CDN) franchises (save for Habs & Leafs) at the time.

Attendance had in fact been pretty solid for the final three years of the franchise in QC.

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