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Old
02-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  #26
Royal Canuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
You can teach defense, but you can't teach size or speed. Hodgson's small and slow.
It's not like he's a pushover and can't skate.

His speed and size are fine.

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Old
02-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #27
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Just ask Stevie Y what happens when a young offensive player learns the other side of the game.

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Just ask Stevie Y what happens when a young offensive player learns the other side of the game.

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:18 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Being good at penalty killing and being good at defense in a 5 on 5 situation is different. PK is favourable to slower players with good positioning (ie. the Sedins, defensemen like Gill and Murray) because foot speed isn't a necessity, like it is in 5 on 5 situations. The Sedins aren't good defensively (in a 5 on 5 situation) and they never will be that good because they don't have the speed to cover the ice well enough.
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
Not to change the topic but the best they'll ever be is competent. Too slow- tall, but not big enough. I mean, think about all of the good defensive players that you know.. if they aren't big, then they're at least fast. And if they aren't fast, they're at least big.

Of course, being big and fast doesn't make you a good defensive play automatically, you have to have the IQ too, which explains Booth.
Did you even watch the Sedins early in their career?

Before they became offensive players and were slower than molasses, they were both excellent defensively 5 on 5. The puck barely ever stayed in their own end. The reason that team was able to compete with only one scoring line is because the Sedins matched the 3rd line defensively and acted like an additional 3rd line.

When they first became PPG guys, they were among our best PKers. When they became 100 point guys with Burrows, they suddenly became bad defensively.

It's flat out wrong to say that they just don't have the toolbox to be any more than adequate defensively. Sedin - Sedin - Klatt were always an excellent defensive line 5-on-5. Hell, their ability to keep the puck out of their end and stuck in the offensive end without ever getting anything done was their specialty early in their careers.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 02-17-2013 at 05:28 PM.
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Old
02-17-2013, 05:26 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
I know. You have to be in total fanboy DENIAL to blind yourself to this.

The beloved Cody is finished getting any bigger. Hes been TRYING to improve his skating for YEARS so it aint happening anymore. You dont get stronger from here on out. You get weaker. But you get smarter.

This is why young guys wail around the ice at 100mph and accomplish nothing , so it takes them to age 23 or 24 (see Kesler, Ryan, Burrows, Alex) until they get their head out of their arse .

Hodgson already has the smarts. He lives and dies by them. So he aint going to get much better. Just smarter. You cant teach speed or strength. Hodgson uses his stick to hook all the time because he cant play the body.

Lets face it. Hodgson is playing with two of the best NHL players to help pad his totals so what you are seeing now is what you are going to get.
Screams a bad case of post-player-leaving bias/trashing syndrome. Seems like you might be the one in denial that he'll continue to improve into a great player.

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:36 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Agreed, no reason he can't be at least serviceable in the D-zone after a few seasons. With that said, he doesn't skate fast for a guy of his size so that's troubling when he's trying to get back.
Yeah, his speed, or more specifically the lack of acceleration is always going to make things a bit more difficult for Hodgson. As is his 'compact frame' that gives him a relatively limited reach as well. When you think of a 'rangy' Center...it is the exact opposite of Hodgson.

That said, there's not reason Hodgson can't improve defensively to the point that he is very serviceable.

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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
When you go from being a highly protected 3rd line center, to a top line center in one summer, there are going to be some growing pains. At least he's contributing offensively, the D will get better. Kassian looked a little lost on the game winning goal last game, he'll get better too.
This is also very true. In Vancouver he was very sheltered and didn't really end up with a ton of opportunity to even grow that aspect of his game. To suddenly parachute him into a top-line situation...there will be bumps in the road.

And again, Kassian as evidenced on that game winner against the Stars, is going to have bumps along the way as well, and that's with the comparatively straightforward task of playing strong defensively as a winger alonside other very good defensive players. It's part of being a young player. Just look at the Oilers forwards if you want a boatload more examples. A lot of these guys coast through Juniors without having to really focus on that side of the game because their offensive skillset means they're given a very long leash and often have the puck in the other end anyway. So there's adjustment there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I agree with this. Hodgson needs to learn that there is a fine line between reading the play and guessing. He ends up on the wrong side of the puck far too often. Obviously the Sabres have more time for this than we do. This is why AV makes everyone on the team play the right way and earn his trust. That's how it should be.

Kassian definitely has the easier go of it as a winger.
This too, is something that seems to be a particular issue with Hodgson. He does seem to get caught puckwatching and looking for opportunities to turn play up ice offensively a bit too often. But i think it's a carryover from his Junior days, and old habits die hard. Eventually he'll probably adapt the way he looks at the defensive zone, but he's had a pretty unusual path to where he's at now, and for his age...he's had an unusually limited amount of experience working on the defensive side of his game between the injuries, and things like the extreme zone-deployment scheme he was set up with in Vancouver.

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
You dont get stronger from here on out. You get weaker.
Strength athletes peak in their thirties so Hodgson likely hasn't reached his strength potential. For hockey players, there are other issues at play. Anaerobic fitness, for instance, peaks much earlier.

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Old
02-17-2013, 06:13 PM
  #33
Sergei Shirokov
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Yeah he kinda loses focus on his checks, puck watches all the time and can get caught flat footed due to not having great acceleration. Also loses board battles.

That's pretty much it, although as someone else said, he was a protected 3C here, and to go from that to a 1C with defensive responsibility, there will be growing pains.

Glad to see he is playing great offensively though, despite the short comings in his game he always seems to be able to put up points.

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:01 PM
  #34
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Immature, doesn't give a crap about defense

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:05 PM
  #35
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Actually it is you are; your is meaning of possesion. Also Hodgson scoed and has 14 points in 16 games. When was the last time Kass scored? He has not in 6 games. Look at those bad passes that lead to turnovers.

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:22 PM
  #36
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The thing with Hodgson is that he's all offensive minded. His game focuses on offence offence offence. Yeah, he had trouble defensively in Vancouver but in junior, he was stellar. Him and John Tavares were an amazing duo in the World Juniors but I guess in the NHL, he wants to succeed offensively. Defence can be taught, like others have said, and give him time and he'll develop better in his own zone.

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:22 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinlala View Post
The thing with Hodgson is that he's all offensive minded. His game focuses on offence offence offence. Yeah, he had trouble defensively in Vancouver but in junior, he was stellar. Him and John Tavares were an amazing duo in the World Juniors but I guess in the NHL, he wants to succeed offensively. Defence can be taught, like others have said, and give him time and he'll develop better in his own zone.
I'm sure he's also put himself under a good deal of pressure to produce offensively, in order to maintain his status as a #1 centre. Instead of taking a secondary role with those wingers, and being the Morrison to their Bertuzzi and Naslund, he's trying to keep up with them and neglecting the defensive side of the game altogether.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:10 PM
  #38
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If you want to understand Hodgson, watch his shiftchange.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:32 PM
  #39
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Sabres fan here, responding to a few things:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoyaho View Post
Immature, doesn't give a crap about defense
I can't disagree with this strongly enough. He's 100% willing in the defensive zone and is very regularly NOT the first out of the zone (we have Vanek for that....lol), and is generally the guy that our D looks to for the first pass with possession.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
When the play goes into his end he doesn't switch his focus from the puck to his man. He's always, always, always watching the puck. He needs to make it a habit it to glue himself to his check and tie up his stick instead of worrying about getting ready for an outlet pass. Footspeed and size shouldn't prevent him from doing that.
Ya know, I don't think I ever really put 2 and 2 together, but I think you're onto something here. It explains why he's always SO EFFING CLOSE to his assignment, but just either doesn't get there in time or the puck hops over his stick or something (also speaks to a general lack of open-ice physicality). I know he's been on the ice for a lot of goals scored, and there are quite a few that he's been directly responsible for, but he never hangs his head and generally "makes up for it" later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Is he still being used on the PK? I ask is because, the only reason I can think of for him being put there is that someone thinks he can take that big hockey head of his, and learn defense.
Yep. He's generally teamed with Pominville (generally regarded to be either our best or 2nd-best PKer). I'm no fan of how passive he is while PKing, but I think that's Lindy's system more than it is a natural response. Oh, and for whatever reason, he seems to be a REALLY effective forechecker when PKing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I don't think Buffalo is going to be able (or even want to, with Ennis as their two way guy) to develop him into a two way player.
Eeeeeeeeep. CoHo is, generally, a better defensive player than Ennis right now. The metrics favor Ennis as his line tends to finish in the offensive zone more, but Ennis at times appears completely clueless in his own end while Cody is at least generally in the right area code.


Generally, we've really enjoyed Cody (hey, being like 4th in the NHL in ES scoring doesn't hurt)......but.......could you guys send us someone to teach him how to win a blasted faceoff????? Dude is killing us.........

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:39 PM
  #40
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Good god, guys. Let it go.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:39 PM
  #41
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The one thing for sure is that Hodgson would not be playing the same way in Vancouver as in Buffalo. AV would not put him on the ice very much. Probably is part of the reason Hodgson wanted out. AV was probably pretty hard on him, and for the sake of winning rightfully so. I do miss his shot but the Canucks are where they are because of their philosophy and so is Buffalo so i would not change it just so a rookie can put up points.

I am wondering what Buffalo's plan to win is? They seem not to teach their players defensive responsiblity in the minors either. Are they letting their players cheat offensively so they can pay them higher salaries? I would like to understand it, because their definately is a plan to play an offensive game whether they can win with that style or not. Perhaps the owner want as exciting brand of hockey to sell more tickets.

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02-17-2013, 11:40 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Generally, we've really enjoyed Cody (hey, being like 4th in the NHL in ES scoring doesn't hurt)......but.......could you guys send us someone to teach him how to win a blasted faceoff????? Dude is killing us.........
Well, there WAS Malhotra.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:41 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
I am wondering what Buffalo's plan to win is?
So are we..........

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:45 PM
  #44
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hodgson is a little cry baby who hides behind his father in contract negotiations.. that is all

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
So are we..........
I know.

Ugly, ugly games for the Sabres so far...

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02-17-2013, 11:58 PM
  #46
Catamarca Livin
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
I know.

Ugly, ugly games for the Sabres so far...
Fun to watch if you are not cheering for them. Kudos on beating up Boston a bit as well. From a Buffalo perspective Kassian is slowing down as well. So is not the next Cam Neely at least yet

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02-18-2013, 12:10 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Generally, we've really enjoyed Cody (hey, being like 4th in the NHL in ES scoring doesn't hurt)......but.......could you guys send us someone to teach him how to win a blasted faceoff????? Dude is killing us.........
I thought BUF should have hung on to Gaustad just for this reason but a first round pick is hard to turn down.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:42 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
Fun to watch if you are not cheering for them. Kudos on beating up Boston a bit as well. From a Buffalo perspective Kassian is slowing down as well. So is not the next Cam Neely at least yet
Sad thing is, I am cheering for them. Sabres are my Eastern team, and every game hurts me.

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:29 AM
  #49
biturbo19
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Ya know, I don't think I ever really put 2 and 2 together, but I think you're onto something here. It explains why he's always SO EFFING CLOSE to his assignment, but just either doesn't get there in time or the puck hops over his stick or something (also speaks to a general lack of open-ice physicality). I know he's been on the ice for a lot of goals scored, and there are quite a few that he's been directly responsible for, but he never hangs his head and generally "makes up for it" later.
This is definitely a carry-over from what we saw in Vancouver. When Hodgson was the goat on goals here, it was often in that same...'almost there' sort of way. In the right neighbourhood...wrong house.

And i really do think it's tied in with a sort of 'puckwatching' tendency he has. Sticks with his check but they often get just enough separation at just the right moment that it ends up in the back of the net. In that moment where he's puckwatching, loses his check just enough for them to get open and Hodgson doesn't have the reach or acceleration to recover in time.

Makes it really easy to pin things on him, as he's often right there when the bad **** goes down. And it obviously needs to improve, but i think it will come in time. I also think it's a product of the way he played in Junior. At that level, he was praised for his 'defensive play' in that his puckwatching often let him get the jump on plays, create turnovers and move the play back up ice offensively where he's always been dynamite. Unfortunately for him...that kind of 'cheating' is gonna get him burned at the NHL level where things happen much more quickly, guys are a lot more talented, and those times when he guesses wrong or can't get there in time will end up in the back of his net.

But i think that's something that he'll come around to eventually. He's a smart player and he's not completely clueless defensively...just a bit slower, weaker, lesser reach and more prone to 'cheating' than he should be. He's not a David Booth type who skates a thousand miles in completely the wrong direction on defensive zone plays at times.

Quote:
Generally, we've really enjoyed Cody (hey, being like 4th in the NHL in ES scoring doesn't hurt)......but.......could you guys send us someone to teach him how to win a blasted faceoff????? Dude is killing us.........
Well...Manny isn't doing much these days...

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:29 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Karter View Post
Good god, guys. Let it go.
Hey, it was a Sabres fan who asked...

--------------------------------------

And Hodgson was never very good defensively. I was really surprised to hear he was on the Sabres' PK unit. It was a sore point for him while he was here, and I'm not surprised to hear it's continued.

His assets were vision, hockey IQ, playmaking, and his shot, not for being a great 2-way player.

And if you guys get someone to teach him faceoffs, send that guy over here. Without Malhotra, we're being murdered on the dot.

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