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Old
02-17-2013, 10:43 PM
  #26
KingCanadain1976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
A 2nd-line center is by definition not an elite player in the league.
out of all the centers playing on the second line carter is a top 5 center so hes a ellite second line center.

Lol, yeah, like Richards is the reason Team Canada wins. He was a big part of any team he was on and won every team and everything there is to win in hockey Hes the only one ever to do so Therefor he is a elite player,.


So you trade a 2nd-line center, and you receive a very similar 2nd-line center in return, but you start mixing up lines for no reason?

Carter plays wing.
a

carter is a center right now and would play center over grabo in a heartbeat


Based on nothing.

You main criteria you pointed out, Grabovski is better at. Now you change your story.


Believe it or not, the Leafs are a defensive team. That is Carlyle's style, and it has worked very well.

Leafs are 10th in GA/G. 11th in PPGA. Our goaltenders have put up 0.929 and 0.927 save percentages.

Get into 2013.

thats not a defensive team to me u need to get up where the kings were last year 2nd in the league to be considered defensive. I will say there getting there but there not even close to being consider a defensive team in this year yet Now please go read the thread link and then come back and troll more I think u may back down on ur thinking but who knows

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Old
02-17-2013, 10:45 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
There's this guy in Pitts called Malkin. You should check him out. He plays second line center from time to time.
There is a fundamental difference between being in a 2nd-line center role because you have the best 2 centers in the world on your team, and being in a 2nd-line center role because you are a 2nd-line center.

Both Crosby and Malkin are 1st-line centers. Richards is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Everyone on his team(s) and his coaches along with most of the pundits all sure seem to credit MR for being a huge part of their winning.
Point out people on Team Canada saying this. Even though this means nothing and is just teammates saying nice things about each other, I don't remember that actually happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Carter plays both wing and center.
And has played mostly wing lately. And is currently playing wing. So if a 2nd line center is subtracted and a 2nd-line center is added, there is no reason to start mixing around lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
sticking with Grabovski has worked so far.
Yes, actually it has.

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02-17-2013, 10:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
thats not a defensive team to me u need to get up where the kings were last year 2nd in the league to be considered defensive. I will say there getting there but there not even close to being consider a defensive team in this year yet Now please go read the thread link and then come back and troll more I think u may back down on ur thinking but who knows
So you're saying there are only two teams in the league that are defensively-based?

That is ridiculous. Actually, in reality, the GA results have nothing to do with it. Whether or not you are a defensive team is entirely dependent on play style instituted by the coach, and like it or not, Toronto plays a defensive style.

I just showed you the GA numbers to prove it is working.

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02-17-2013, 10:50 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
So you're saying there are only two teams in the league that are defensively-based?

That is ridiculous. Actually, in reality, the GA results have nothing to do with it. Whether or not you are a defensive team is entirely dependent on play style instituted by the coach, and like it or not, Toronto plays a defensive style.

I just showed you the GA numbers to prove it is working.
no im saying u need to be at least the top 10 teams I dont think any one thinks of the leafs as a defensive team, When u think defensive u think teams like la st louis new jersy not the leafs

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02-17-2013, 10:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Yes, actually it has.
I was about to address the rest of your post when I got to this part and had to stop.

How has it worked? Based on the Leafs success since Grabovski came to the team? Can you enlighten me on how Grabovski has helped the Leafs achieve anything, anything at all since he came to the team or how having him has "worked" so far?


I think starting here would be the best place for us to begin understanding each other.

The rest can wait at least it can for me.

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02-17-2013, 10:58 PM
  #31
Ziggy Stardust
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The way Leafs fans talk up Jake Gardiner, you'd think he's the next Brian Leetch. The Kings aren't giving up Mike Richards for such a package. Dean Lombardi loves him. He's said if he can have a roster full of Mike Ricci's, he would, and Richards fits that description.

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02-17-2013, 11:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
no im saying u need to be at least the top 10 teams I dont think any one thinks of the leafs as a defensive team, When u think defensive u think teams like la st louis new jersy not the leafs
That's because people don't watch the Leafs, and base their judgements on past snippets they have seen, and myths they have heard, which do not represent the Leafs under Carlyle this year.

And Leafs are a top-10 team in GA/G, so they fit your criteria.

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02-17-2013, 11:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I was about to address the rest of your post when I got to this part and had to stop.

How has it worked? Based on the Leafs success since Grabovski came to the team? Can you enlighten me on how Grabovski has helped the Leafs achieve anything, anything at all since he came to the team or how having him has "worked" so far?
The Leafs have had some problems over the last couple years. Grabovski is not one of them. One of the farthest from.

He is also a big part of why they are winning this year.

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02-17-2013, 11:01 PM
  #34
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I'd do it. But I'm a huge Richards fan and I think he'd be a good upgrade on #2C over Grabovski.

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02-17-2013, 11:12 PM
  #35
Phion Keneuf
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Huge no. Don't want Richards on this team.

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Huge no. Don't want Richards on this team.
Partying cancer that destroys every team he's on?

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:33 PM
  #37
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
Partying cancer that destroys every team he's on?
A perennial Cup contender can't have any bad characters on the team. They need more high character winners like Kessel and Phaneuf, you know, players who have won a championships at every level.

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02-17-2013, 11:35 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Huge no. Don't want Richards on this team.
What? He's been a winner everywhere he's been. That's like saying I enjoy mediocrity.

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02-17-2013, 11:46 PM
  #39
Phion Keneuf
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Partying cancer that destroys every team he's on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
What? He's been a winner everywhere he's been. That's like saying I enjoy mediocrity.
He would be slotted in as our #1 C while he is definitely not one.
Grabo + Gardiner is terrible value from our side tbh...

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02-17-2013, 11:51 PM
  #40
Hurt
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
He would be slotted in as our #1 C while he is definitely not one.
Grabo + Gardiner is terrible value from our side tbh...
What have Grabovski and Gardiner proven exactly? Grabo's a good #2C and Gardiner is a good young D-man but Richie has won gold with team Canada juniors and men, Memorial Cup, Calder Cup, plays with heart and skill, grit and put up points, won a Cup, took his team to a Cup final the year before. Come on.

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02-17-2013, 11:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
What have Grabovski and Gardiner proven exactly? Grabo's a good #2C and Gardiner is a good young D-man but Richie has won gold with team Canada juniors and men, Memorial Cup, Calder Cup, plays with heart and skill, grit and put up points, won a Cup, took his team to a Cup final the year before. Come on.
Those cups mean nothing, speaks more about the teams he was on. Regardless, it was in the past. He plays with heart on occasion. Looks lazy at times, especially at the beginning of the season. Gardiner has proven that he can put up 30+ points as a rookie, Grabo is a good 2nd line C.
Richards is a good #2 C. Definitely not a top line C.

The difference between Grabo and Richards is not Jake Gardiner, when the two centres will be used in the same role. People have given up on Gardiner way too early, remember last season when people were labelling him as our best Dman, future #1, etc.

Richards is overrated because of what he has done in the past, he's not the same player, although he does show flashes and does show up in the playoffs.

With ROR on the market, a younger, cheaper, version of Richards(who I think will be much better for the rest of their respective careers), why target Richards especially at that cost.

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02-18-2013, 12:02 AM
  #42
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Been waiting for the golden word - overrated.

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02-18-2013, 12:03 AM
  #43
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Been waiting for the golden word - overrated.
People are calling him a #1 C.

Of course he is overrated in that case

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02-18-2013, 12:06 AM
  #44
etherialone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
What have Grabovski and Gardiner proven exactly? Grabo's a good #2C and Gardiner is a good young D-man but Richie has won gold with team Canada juniors and men, Memorial Cup, Calder Cup, plays with heart and skill, grit and put up points, won a Cup, took his team to a Cup final the year before. Come on.
I was wondering when you would show up.

I actually have watched almost every Leaf game this year (Wife is a Leaf fan Son loves the Habs) and the last few seasons (mostly from the road) and I really like the way they are playing this season. They have changed a bunch and look better then they have in a long time.

That said I agree with your valuation on this proposal. MR is a special player who is in the prime of his career and has a very reasonable cap hit.

Gardiner looks like he is going to be very good and I can't see the Leafs moving him but Grabo and G just wouldn't get MR. Losing MR would be a huge hit to the Kings. If they would move him it would be due to their starting a complete rebuild and then for picks and NHL ready young assets. Gardiner would be a good start but again, the Leafs won't likely move him so there you go.

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02-18-2013, 12:08 AM
  #45
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Been waiting for the golden word - overrated.
ME TOO!!!!

It took so much longer than I thought.


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02-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #46
Hurt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I was wondering when you would show up.

I actually have watched almost every Leaf game this year (Wife is a Leaf fan Son loves the Habs) and the last few seasons (mostly from the road) and I really like the way they are playing this season. They have changed a bunch and look better then they have in a long time.

That said I agree with your valuation on this proposal. MR is a special player who is in the prime of his career and has a very reasonable cap hit.

Gardiner looks like he is going to be very good and I can't see the Leafs moving him but Grabo and G just wouldn't get MR. Losing MR would be a huge hit to the Kings. If they would move him it would be due to their starting a complete rebuild and then for picks and NHL ready young assets. Gardiner would be a good start but again, the Leafs won't likely move him so there you go.
I love Richie's game and would be very happy to see him in the Blue and White. Great player.

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02-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #47
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At the time LA made the trade for Richards they gave up:

One of the best prospects in the entire league at the time (if not the best), and I recall plenty of 'Value of: Brayden Schenn to ____' threads during the WJC.
An extremely good third liner who was performing so well after the trade I remember threads stating Simmons > Richards.
2nd round pick.

So after sending all those assets to acquire MR, send him over for those two pieces? Is Jake Gardiner really that good? Is his covetousness more than Schenns just before the big trade?

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02-18-2013, 12:13 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
What have Grabovski and Gardiner proven exactly? Grabo's a good #2C and Gardiner is a good young D-man but Richie has won gold with team Canada juniors and men, Memorial Cup, Calder Cup, plays with heart and skill, grit and put up points, won a Cup, took his team to a Cup final the year before. Come on.
And here I was thinking every Leafs fan overrates their players and underrates everyone elses! Nice post.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:21 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
At the time LA made the trade for Richards they gave up:

One of the best prospects in the entire league at the time (if not the best), and I recall plenty of 'Value of: Brayden Schenn to ____' threads during the WJC.
An extremely good third liner who was performing so well after the trade I remember threads stating Simmons > Richards.
2nd round pick.

So after sending all those assets to acquire MR, send him over for those two pieces? Is Jake Gardiner really that good? Is his covetousness more than Schenns just before the big trade?
Richards was a very different player then, and Brayden Schenn was overrated on these boards then. Simmonds had not broken out. His career high was 16 goals.

Gardiner is worth infinitely more to the Leafs now than Schenn was at the time he was traded, even though many Leaf fans still believed he would be good in time.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:30 AM
  #50
Sergei Shirokov
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Close valuewise.

Good for Toronto, but no reason for LA to do it.

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