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May 6 2007 (Official "Fire Ruff" thread)

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:52 PM
  #251
Dreakon
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Wouldn't putting Roy with Vanek, if Roy really did ruin Vanek, kind of be Ruffs fault in the end anyways?

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02-17-2013, 08:52 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
nice....you slipped your own belief (roy ruined vanek) past the correlation/causality detector

funny how that works...
No, I was just showing an example of the HF hivemind mentality to prove a point. Shouldn't that be an example you agree with anyways?

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02-17-2013, 08:52 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Afino View Post
I see what you're getting at, but no, it's not the same thing.

Putting the singular blame on anyone but the person himself for his career heading down the wrong path is hatred/bias.
So then how in the world did Roy ruin Vanek?

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02-17-2013, 08:53 PM
  #254
Afino
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Wouldn't putting Roy with Vanek, if Roy really did ruin Vanek, kind of be Ruffs fault in the end anyways?
Read my post again. I already acknowledged that.

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:54 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Afino View Post
Read my post again. I already acknowledged that.
Gotcha, I guess I missed it.

At least I know I made a fine point.

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:27 PM
  #256
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Fire ruff. Hire Phil housley

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:37 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
And anyone who honestly believes a GM should in a public forum, hint at (or bluntly voice) negative feelings about their coach is

A GM calling out a coach on ANY level publicly is bush league and sophomoric.

What a GM says and does are two different things. Granted Regiers track record in regards to Ruff would say otherwise

This summer should be interesting ... Until then, I suffer.
I'm not saying Regier should call out Ruff, why would he? All I'm saying is he is imprisoned by a mentality that is absolutely outrageous. It's out of touch with reality.

When it gets to the point where the guy thinks it makes more sense to wait for a hardened, puffed-up coach to "change" is better than making a real splash at change; well that's all I can say. It's downright baffling.

I argue this point because they've both been here for so long. Are we seriously even considering that Regier feels differently than what he actually says?

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:16 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foligno and Barnes View Post
So Darcy thinks Lindy can miraculously just 'change' after 15 years? That's usually not how it works...what's that old saying again?
Lindy CAN and HAS changed. He can adapt too.

When he coached with Mike Babcock, he really took what he "learned" to heart, and also too far. We don't have the personnel Detroit has. Lindy tried a system similar to theirs and had varying degrees of success, but it stopped being consistently effective a while ago.

He also used to be a lot more involved and passionate during the game. That's gone now.

Can Lindy change again? Sure.
Will he, in any meaningful timeframe? I don't think so.
Would it matter anyway? I think it's too late for that.
Will he adapt to the failures happening right now? I'm not so sure. He's been much slower to adapt each generation of players.


---

The issue with what Darcy said isn't that he supported Ruff, that should be expected. It's how he did it, what he said. He basically laid it out that he has complete faith in Lindy, even if what he's doing now is failing, to change what he needs to in order to turn it around, and that any change of coach isn't happening for a while, if it does. I took his comments as saying things have to get a lot worse for a lot longer for a change to happen.

It wasn't a passive support, it was active support.

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:52 AM
  #259
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Fire Ruff and Darcy
Hire Rivet as a coach......all your leadership left the team when he went to Columbus!

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:55 AM
  #260
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I do not doubt Lindy wants success. I do not doubt his competence as a coach, I think he will win a Stanley Cup with a team. However I do not think it will be this team though.

This lineup needs someone who is a little bit more of a risk taker, Ruff is a little bit too safe imho. We have skilled players but I do not believe they are being given the best opportunity to make the most of their assets. Hopefully that makes some sense.

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Old
02-18-2013, 02:10 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afino View Post
I see what you're getting at, but no, it's not the same thing.

Putting the singular blame on anyone but the person himself for his career heading down the wrong path is hatred/bias.
I disagree. Consider this. Other than the lock out Thomas Vanek has played every professional game of his career under ruff. Ruff has consistently tried to make vanek into a 2 way hockey player. Vanek said that ruff told him that he wanted him to become one of the best 2 way players in the league. Vanek is a fantastic player but by trying to force him to become what ruff can only successfully coach, ie 2 way players, has limited him. Ruff should have spent his time finding or creating PP or even strength opportunities to help him become the elite offensive talent that we see in flashes.

Concerning Myers, if ruff is this Top 5 coach in the league, what is he "top 5" at? Most would argue defense. Well then Myers, being a special talent, should have ups and downs offensively but by now, should be a top 2 shutdown Dman. Again, ruff doesn't know how to work with players who have skill sets outside of his coaching scheme.

Ironically, he wants his D to jump in and make plays so the chance to play and solid yet simple game are nullified by his coaching style. Unless he has a hasek or miller, his system becomes overly exposed due to multiple odd man rushes. He also needs a shutdown, all situations center, to rely on. Drury had his best statistical seasons under Ruff but there are not too many Chris Drurys floating out in the waiver wire.

IMO, the success with Drury makes picking up RoR a must if Darcy wants to retain ruff.

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
WGRZ just aired interviews by Adam Benigni with Darcy Regier and Lindy Ruff.

I don't recall the exact question, but Benigni basically kept asking about a coaching change and how close one was.

Darcy's response was something along the lines of "I believe in people changing before changing people" and "I don't think it's close at all [to having to fire Lindy]".
Something overlooked was in the Lindy interview. Benigni asked Lindy speciafically if he had ever thought about going somewhere else and starting fresh? Lindy said he had.

Case closed. Get him out.

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:07 PM
  #263
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Toronto Maple Leafs--Brian Burke ...Ron Wison .....jump to today...just saying......

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:07 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Lindy CAN and HAS changed. He can adapt too.

When he coached with Mike Babcock, he really took what he "learned" to heart, and also too far. We don't have the personnel Detroit has. Lindy tried a system similar to theirs and had varying degrees of success, but it stopped being consistently effective a while ago.

He also used to be a lot more involved and passionate during the game. That's gone now.

Can Lindy change again? Sure.
Will he, in any meaningful timeframe? I don't think so.
Would it matter anyway? I think it's too late for that.
Will he adapt to the failures happening right now? I'm not so sure. He's been much slower to adapt each generation of players.


---

The issue with what Darcy said isn't that he supported Ruff, that should be expected. It's how he did it, what he said. He basically laid it out that he has complete faith in Lindy, even if what he's doing now is failing, to change what he needs to in order to turn it around, and that any change of coach isn't happening for a while, if it does. I took his comments as saying things have to get a lot worse for a lot longer for a change to happen.

It wasn't a passive support, it was active support.
Lindy tried to implement a system he doesn't understand...

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:40 PM
  #265
Ace1963
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The Winnipeg game is proof positive that the Sabres' players hate Ruff's guts.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:18 PM
  #266
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Takes absolutely no blame himself, throws players under the bus.

I wouldn't play for him either.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:23 PM
  #267
Jame
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im terrified that they are going to start making trades to accomodate ruff....

not that im against trading any of these players... but outside the context of a "new beginning"... it's not as tempting.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:25 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
im terrified that they are going to start making trades to accomodate ruff....

not that im against trading any of these players... but outside the context of a "new beginning"... it's not as tempting.
The worst would be if they trade for some veteran player to help us for this season. I'd lose my ****!

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:27 PM
  #269
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The worst would be if they trade for some veteran player to help us for this season. I'd lose my ****!
That's why I cringe everytime someone mentions Iginla...

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:28 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
im terrified that they are going to start making trades to accomodate ruff....

not that im against trading any of these players... but outside the context of a "new beginning"... it's not as tempting.
I would be amazed if Regier was that proactive/aggressive.

But, like you, I'm a bit nervous about that idea.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:29 PM
  #271
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I'm starting to feel bad for the guy. I just want it all to be over. Just get it done, and do it fast. I don't want to see anything, I don't want to feel anything. Get it over with.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:30 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
im terrified that they are going to start making trades to accomodate ruff....

not that im against trading any of these players... but outside the context of a "new beginning"... it's not as tempting.
We'd have a team of jochen hecht and matt ellis clones, and one guy like ROR
I'm joking a bit, but I agree, we need a fresh start...I really don't like how different guys look once they play under ruff for a certain amount of time. Like Foligno, for instance. I mean, I wasn't expecting him to put up numbers like he did last year, but I was hoping he'd stay almost as intense as he was last year. He played a simple game: got the puck in deep, forechecked and skated hard, made simple passes to ennis/staff, played physically, and took good shots when he got the chance. The difference between his game last year and this year is night and day

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:30 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
im terrified that they are going to start making trades to accomodate ruff....

not that im against trading any of these players... but outside the context of a "new beginning"... it's not as tempting.
I have that concern as well. Or that Regier tries to save his own hide too and they do something monumentally stupid.

Just fire Ruff already. Out with the old, in with the new.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:32 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I would be amazed if Regier was that proactive/aggressive.

But, like you, I'm a bit nervous about that idea.
its that little thought at the back of my mind...

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:33 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I have that concern as well. Or that Regier tries to save his own hide too and they do something monumentally stupid.

Just fire Ruff already. Out with the old, in with the new.
the hockey gods are going to punish me for my blasphemy

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