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ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:11 AM
  #201
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
The fact is that with this season he is actually dropping in value and not increasing.
15 games of blah play should not be dropping a player's value.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #202
Hobnobs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
Well, since jkrx should be skipped again, I go forward with my pick.

HC Donbass selects Don McKenney, C
327. jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds- OTC until 8:46 AM EST

Your pick is invalid.

Monday, 18 February
8:21:59 a.m
(GMT - 5:00)

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:26 AM
  #203
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
327. jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds- OTC until 8:46 AM EST

Your pick is invalid.

Monday, 18 February
8:21:59 a.m
(GMT - 5:00)
they already have 1 hour deduction and BBS pick was made at 12h46 a.m.

They've been skipped since 7h46 , OP made a mistake and didn't count the deduction on the 8 hour clock

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:34 AM
  #204
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Evolution:

Dan Boyle, early in his career, I thought was rather porous defensively...kind of an adventurer. His gaining more ice time (I have no idea what the numbers look like though) later in his career was a result of his tightening up on defense. He made himself into a very serviceable top pairing defenseman and despite his size, really improved his play in his own end. Something that Gonchar never really did...he was passable, but never really embraced it. Gonchar remained very soft throughout his career, extremely passive. Intelligent, yes.

Weber, I think we're seeing the same thing with...I thought he was pretty immature defensively in Nashville up through last season...maybe full well knowing that he had who he had as a partner and could chase hits a little more and jump into the action a little more...I never saw him as elite defensively in Nashville to be honest, which is kind of a minority opinion I think. This year, I think he's making great strides defensively and it's just a matter that the forwards on this Nashville team simply cannot convert. The stats are not an indictment of Weber, if anything, I think he's improving.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:36 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
they already have 1 hour deduction and BBS pick was made at 12h46 a.m.

They've been skipped since 7h46 , OP made a mistake and didn't count the deduction on the 8 hour clock
ffs they lost a pick because of mistake by the OP? Last time they werent pmed, amateur draft...

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:38 AM
  #206
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Montreal select Joe Klukay , LW


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Old
02-18-2013, 08:39 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
ffs they lost a pick because of mistake by the OP? Last time they werent pmed, amateur draft...
huh???

Who are you whining at?

One of the GM was online at 3h52 a.m or so , it's now 8h40 A.M , if they lost a pick it's their own fault.

and you are up , shall I pm you?

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:41 AM
  #208
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Ill make my pick at the end of the clock, Ill wait for KingForsberg.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:47 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Ill make my pick at the end of the clock, Ill wait for KingForsberg.
do as you wish , it's not my problem nor my fault if they were skipped.

There's something wrong about your move though.If only you would have pretended to be internally debating which player to pick instead of giving your entire clock to another team and saying it in public.As it is the draft will wait for the same team two times in a row for the same pick.

I also fail to see how the OP is responsible for the skipped pick , as it is they weren't even there at 8h46 a.m. anyway.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 02-18-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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Old
02-18-2013, 08:52 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I'll take C/D, Neil Colville


Two-time second all-star at center in 1939 and 1940. He finished third in voting in 1938 behind Apps and Cowley as well.

Following the war Colville moved back to defense making the second all-star team once and finishing tied for 6th in all-star voting another year.
Good pick. He was a pappyline favourite but it seems like he's dropped since pappy left the draft. Maybe because nobody is quite sure how to use him. In any case he's good value at this point.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:16 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Montreal select Joe Klukay , LW

How versatile is Joe Klukay? How much time did he played a RW?

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:33 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
What facts? Ice-time? So what. It doesn't mean it was quality ice-time. Sorry we are not speaking about pre-WW2 players or O6 players. Everybody saw them both play, especially since 2005 we had an overdose of Penguins games because of Crosby.
If you are only going to look at their careers after the lockout, then I can see why you think Boyle is better. Between 2006 to 2012, Boyle has probably been a little better.

Unfortunately, Gonchar had his best years before the lock-out. From 2000 to 2004, he had most of his offensive dominance and most of his voting recognition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
I fail to see how you proved me wrong there.
You said Boyle was a top pairing defenseman a lot more than Gonchar. 10 is not more than 12.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
Boyle's vs Gonchar's ES ATOI:

2006: 16:41 vs 15:29
2007: 19:55 vs 16:04
2008: 20:18 (2nd 0:06 behind Ranger) vs 16:24
2009: 18:02 (2nd 0:12 behind Vlasic) vs 16:28 (2nd 0:52 behind Oprik)
2010: 19:21 vs 16:23 (3th 0:58 behind Letang)
2011: 19:41 vs 17:37 (3rd 0:45 behind Karlsson)
2012: 20:08 (2nd 0:20 behind Vlasic) vs 17:19 (3rd 3:32 behind Karlsson)

So tell me please again why Boyle wasn't relied on even strength more if had 2,5 minutes of ES ATOI more, and why he wasn't ?
You are missing some very important parts of the equation here.

First, the coach makes a difference. Some guys ride their top defensemen and other guys try to spread the ice time around. In Pittsburgh, Gonchar played for guys who have usually spread the ice time around. In Tampa, Boyle played for a guy who rides his horses. His time in San Jose is tough to get a read, since his coach has only coached in one place, but it certainly looks like he rides his horses too.

Second, the rest of the defense corps makes a difference. If there is a strong 2nd and 3rd pair, it will take ice time away from the 1st pair. Since the lockout, Gonchar has played for significantly deeper bluelines - a lot of his team mates will go in this draft or the MLD. Not many of Boyles team mates are getting selected. I can safely name the bottom guys on the teams Boyle played on, since they suck. Guys like Nolan Pratt, Ryan Craig, and Doug Janik were the bottom guys in Tampa, so it should be no surprise that Boyle was used a lot. In San Jose, Doug Murray has been the 4-5 guy since Boyle got there, and below him have been Niclas Wallin, and Justin Braun and Jason Demers have moved in.


Just like raw point totals, raw ice time totals will never tell you the whole story. That is why ice time rankings are much more accurate. All coaches play their best players the most, but not all coaches play their best players a huge amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Gonchar remained very soft throughout his career, extremely passive.


Gonchar plays a very inconsistent physical game, but he does have some bit. Not many passive players crack the 1000 PIM mark.


Last edited by Dreakmur: 02-18-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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Old
02-18-2013, 09:45 AM
  #213
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Regardless of his losing his temper because someone took him to task physically, it doesn't change that he was a pretty passive player throughout his career. If anything, this is more of a net negative for Gonchar. He never initiated this contact, it was always retaliatory. Therefore, more costly. It showed that he could be distracted and frustrated out on the ice if you poke him enough.

Gonchar was never first to the wall on retrievals either, which always drove me nuts. He seemed to always let the forechecker pass him and then try to make a play on it instead of retrieving and moving it to his partner and taking the hit...

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:18 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Regardless of his losing his temper because someone took him to task physically, it doesn't change that he was a pretty passive player throughout his career. If anything, this is more of a net negative for Gonchar. He never initiated this contact, it was always retaliatory. Therefore, more costly. It showed that he could be distracted and frustrated out on the ice if you poke him enough.

Gonchar was never first to the wall on retrievals either, which always drove me nuts. He seemed to always let the forechecker pass him and then try to make a play on it instead of retrieving and moving it to his partner and taking the hit...
Anybody wondering why I always pick older players, this is exactly why...

No matter how good a modern player is, people just focus on the weaknesses they all have and ignore their strengths.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:53 AM
  #215
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No matter how good a modern player is, people just focus on the weaknesses they all have and ignore their strengths.
I'd have to agree. Not that it stops me from drafting modern players.

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:08 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Anybody wondering why I always pick older players, this is exactly why...

No matter how good a modern player is, people just focus on the weaknesses they all have and ignore their strengths.
Sorry, I'm not trying to demean the pick. I like Gonchar, he was once the top defensemen for my favorite team. But he wasn't a real rugged competitor...he has tons of strengths that you can certainly point out and they're hard to argue with...his physicality and compete level were usually a little light...

Having footage of players playing is a terrific resource, better than anything else at our disposal...for some, I guess, the sunshine just bores the daylights out of'em...

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #217
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Sorry for the late pick.

The Firebirds select D, Brian Rafalski


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Old
02-18-2013, 11:31 AM
  #218
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So, um....who actually is up?

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:41 AM
  #219
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So, um....who actually is up?
Trying to figure out who to PM right now

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:41 AM
  #220
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I believe hobnobs is up?

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:44 AM
  #221
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Trying to figure out who to PM right now
Hobnob is up.

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:45 AM
  #222
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Hobnob is up.
Good I just sent him a PM.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:31 PM
  #223
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If it helps anything, here are their QUALCOMP rankings since the stat was tracked:

07-08

Gonchar: .08(1st on Penguins among D)
Boyle: .0459(3rd on Lightning among D)

08-09

Gonchar: -.009(5th on Penguins among D)
Boyle: -.022(4th on Sharks among D)

09-10

Gonchar: .056(3rd on Penguins among D)
Boyle: .008(5th on Sharks among D)

10-11

Gonchar: -.041(5th on Senators among D)
Boyle: .065(1st on Sharks among D)

11-12

Gonchar: .011(3rd on Senators among D)
Boyle: .049(1st on Sharks among D)

12-13

Gonchar: -.124(5th on Senators among D)
Boyle: .011(7th on Sharks among D)

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02-18-2013, 12:37 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Good I just sent him a PM.
btw.....thanks for taking Rafalski (grumble.....grumble.....mutter.....grumble)

Right handed PMD....I could've used him on a PP unit.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:50 PM
  #225
Hobnobs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
do as you wish , it's not my problem nor my fault if they were skipped.

There's something wrong about your move though.If only you would have pretended to be internally debating which player to pick instead of giving your entire clock to another team and saying it in public.As it is the draft will wait for the same team two times in a row for the same pick.

I also fail to see how the OP is responsible for the skipped pick , as it is they weren't even there at 8h46 a.m. anyway.
Im an honest person thats all

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