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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:40 AM
  #651
LePoche69
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I think a lot of people are day dreaming about the Gallys vs Cole and Desharnais.

Desharnais has a 60 points season last year and is playing pretty well recently. The Gallys are far from that, like it or not.

Cole has multiple good seasons in the league and was Habs best forward last year. The coach has to give him all the chances possible to shake out of his slump. Even in a dream season, Gallagher won't come close of what Cole did last year. At least not for another 1 or 2 seasons.

I'm all for letting the kids play and developp, but lots of people are greatly underestimating what the veterans bring to the game.

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02-18-2013, 09:44 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I watched him for his entire career and he spent almost his entire tenure here with Nilan, Gainey, McPhee, Keane, Brunet, Gilchrist and Corson for brief periods. He is probably best remembered as being the center between Nilan and Gainey and then later on having Mike Keane as a staple on his wing. There were periods when Bobby Smith got hurt and he saw some time with Richer and Corson but he was always a 2nd/3rd line center. With a healthy lineup he would very rarely get 1st pp unit ice time.

Stats don't tell the whole story as players like Stephane LeBeau were given offensive assignments ahead of him.

Carbo's main responsibility was to shut down the oppositions top line and kill penalties. Those were deep teams without much star power up front so the scoring was usually spread out very well. He had the talent to score well over a point per game but wasn't used in that capacity due to his absolute dominance in the defensive aspects of the game.
I saw Carbo's entire carreer also and you're right on every account. The element I would add, tho, is that on most night during the Gainey-Carbo-Nilan years, this line was almost always the most played. Sure it was a "third" line by the style of play standard, but it was the first line in the coach's head.

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02-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I saw Carbo's entire carreer also and you're right on every account. The element I would add, tho, is that on most night during the Gainey-Carbo-Nilan years, this line was almost always the most played. Sure it was a "third" line by the style of play standard, but it was the first line in the coach's head.
You have forgotten the years when Carbo, Mcphee, and Courtnal, was the first,
or sometimes second line. Both by icetime, and production.

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02-18-2013, 10:56 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Habaddict View Post
You have forgotten the years when Carbo, Mcphee, and Courtnal, was the first,
or sometimes second line. Both by icetime, and production.
No I haven't. Great line but it sucks it had to be the most productive.

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02-18-2013, 11:07 AM
  #655
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No I haven't. Great line but it sucks it had to be the most productive.
Deep in the Pat Burns era, if I remember. So no.1 offensive line required
at least two primarily defensive players. Still it was a big physical team, that
won it's share of games. Albeit boring games.

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02-18-2013, 11:13 AM
  #656
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Well. I put a lot of value on points. They tend to win you cups. But what do I know, I saw Gros Bill play when I was 7. And the Habs the entire 70's. Live. They ate teams alive and killed teams to death with skating, goals and assists.

Score goals. Could not care less about solid D play. That was for Gainey to worry about. Oh, wait, he scored goals too.
Oh don’t get me wrong: points (results) are, especially for top line players, essential over a significant period of time. All I meant was that Desharnais, during the last 18 days or so, mostly played good games: he set up his wingers nicely, he competed hard and his line created scoring chances. He played well despite his limited production.

However, if Desharnais ends the season with 21 points (36 pts on a 82 games basis; his current pace), I would be the first to ask for an improvement.

Right now, Pacioretty, Cole and Desharnais are not producing as expected but, because they already proved that they can produce at the NHL level, I won’t start pouting if their production is subpar during a specific 7-8 game stint! Especially if they keep playing like they did in the last few games.

That said... I would gladly swap any of our players with Gros Bill or Bob Gainey!

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02-18-2013, 11:25 AM
  #657
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Everybody Chill the **** out on DD. He's a great kid, and he'll be given chances. Time will tell. And he's the first to know it. He's not stupid. He knows he has to put up points, and he knows he has to score goals. Imagine the pressure. Stop trying to make him the next Pocket Rocket. It just kills good french kids here. Let him do his best, and we will see.
I agree with your posts in general, but isn't DD tied for fourth in team scoring right now? And he's got a SO winner on top of that. This is as much as Cole, Pacioretty, Eller and Galchenyuk put together.

That's pretty good for someone who's bread and butter is his passing, and if his regular linemates had more than two goals between them hed's have a few assists more.

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02-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Oh don’t get me wrong: points (results) are, especially for top line players, essential over a significant period of time. All I meant was that Desharnais, during the last 18 days or so, mostly played good games: he set up his wingers nicely, he competed hard and his line created scoring chances. He played well despite his limited production.

However, if Desharnais ends the season with 21 points (36 pts on a 82 games basis; his current pace), I would be the first to ask for an improvement.

Right now, Pacioretty, Cole and Desharnais are not producing as expected but, because they already proved that they can produce at the NHL level, I won’t start pouting if their production is subpar during a specific 7-8 game stint! Especially if they keep playing like they did in the last few games.

That said... I would gladly swap any of our players with Gros Bill or Bob Gainey!
DD has had at least 4 strong games in the last 6 or 7. He was good
against both Boston and Philly. So it's not a case of playing well against
less physical teams. ( in before someone posts that ) So it may be time
to focus on MaxPac and Cole, and leave DD out of it.

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02-18-2013, 11:37 AM
  #659
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Further to that, what was most beautiful about watching Habs in the 70's is that every single guy on the team had defined his own game, and knew his strengths perfectly. I've never seen a better collection of pro hockey players since. It was the most intelligent team in history, I think. From Dryden out.
On the habs now, the one player I've always thought of as defining his
own game, is DD. It is this understanding of what he has to do, that helped
him get from un-drafted to 60 points in the NHL. Unfortunately his ideal role
may always be offensive specialist, on a weak team.

But I think the habs have that role for him, at least this year.

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02-18-2013, 11:41 AM
  #660
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Galchenyuk is easily one of the weakest links on the team right now. He loses more battles than he wins and is being treated with kid gloves by being sheltered from the oppositions top players. He just turned 19 and this is to be expected but you really need to be far more objective before posting some of these observations.

Desharnais has been far better in the last few games than Galchenyuk has at any point this season. I am not bashing Galchenyuk at all but just trying to be unbiased and objective. Alex will improve as he gains confidence but needs to be brought along very slowly. IMO Therrien is doing a fine job with him and is handling DD very well also.

At some point you have to ask yourself why it is that you never understand why coaches make certain decisions...........
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. It's not a knock on the kid, because he's only 19 and still has 8 pts in 14 games, but Gally is not getting a lot of ice time because he's not ready to play the minutes DD, Eller and pleks can. Right now, Gally is getting used to the speed of the NHL, the phyiscal play (as seen by his awesome assist), and helps this team by creating around 3 GREAT scoring chances a game.

He will be invisible for 8 of his 9 minutes on the ice, but that minute where he is dominant, scoring chances are created and it has helped this club gain leads and keep them! Therrien is playing him the way he should be played.

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02-18-2013, 12:09 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. It's not a knock on the kid, because he's only 19 and still has 8 pts in 14 games, but Gally is not getting a lot of ice time because he's not ready to play the minutes DD, Eller and pleks can. Right now, Gally is getting used to the speed of the NHL, the phyiscal play (as seen by his awesome assist), and helps this team by creating around 3 GREAT scoring chances a game.

He will be invisible for 8 of his 9 minutes on the ice, but that minute where he is dominant, scoring chances are created and it has helped this club gain leads and keep them! Therrien is playing him the way he should be played.
Agree on all account.

The only minute Gally is visible is a good one because he has so much talent, but still, he can't play more for now. Plus, when his line is stucked in his own territory, it's always ugly. He still has a lot to learn. Despite his minus 5 stat and the difficulty he had early on, DD is playing a better overall game.

That said, it is possible Galchenyuk is so good that he may continue to improve on a regular basis to really become a #2 or #1b center by the end of the year, the way a guy like Stamkos did in his first year. If it's the case, I'm sure Therrien would give him more ice time. For now, I think Therrien is managing his forwards very well. Better than I expected.

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02-18-2013, 01:13 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Galchenyuk is easily one of the weakest links on the team right now. He loses more battles than he wins and is being treated with kid gloves by being sheltered from the oppositions top players. He just turned 19 and this is to be expected but you really need to be far more objective before posting some of these observations.

Desharnais has been far better in the last few games than Galchenyuk has at any point this season. I am not bashing Galchenyuk at all but just trying to be unbiased and objective. Alex will improve as he gains confidence but needs to be brought along very slowly. IMO Therrien is doing a fine job with him and is handling DD very well also.

At some point you have to ask yourself why it is that you never understand why coaches make certain decisions...........
One more vote for this position. Chucky is clearly just learning what
he can do at this level. So slowly and carefully is the right way to go.
Sheltered minutes, little responsibility, and PP time as a reward when
he is working hard.
B.Gally looks a lot more prepared to play Nhl hockey to me. But he
had those good exhibition games last year. Then a extra year of junior,
and half a season of Bulldogs. Also playing on a bad dogs team, at least
let him prepare for adversity.

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02-18-2013, 01:47 PM
  #663
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By the end of the season, Galchenyuk should be able to confidently play 15 minutes a game.

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02-18-2013, 02:27 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. It's not a knock on the kid, because he's only 19 and still has 8 pts in 14 games, but Gally is not getting a lot of ice time because he's not ready to play the minutes DD, Eller and pleks can. Right now, Gally is getting used to the speed of the NHL, the phyiscal play (as seen by his awesome assist), and helps this team by creating around 3 GREAT scoring chances a game.

He will be invisible for 8 of his 9 minutes on the ice, but that minute where he is dominant, scoring chances are created and it has helped this club gain leads and keep them! Therrien is playing him the way he should be played.
Technically speaking.....

Plekanec and DD plays 3m30 a game more than Galchenyuk. (Even strengh)
Don't play in PK, less PP time than the two. So it might not be too long.

But you're kind of right....depands a lot of his opposition on the ice but some game, he gaves more than 2-3 flashes.

Would like to see him get more PP Time soon.

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02-18-2013, 02:29 PM
  #665
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By the end of the season, Galchenyuk should be able to confidently play 15 minutes a game.
Perhaps. It's hard to say how quickly a player develops. But there would
be no harm in waiting till next year before giving him more responsibility.

Then he may jump out and be a monster from game one.

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02-22-2013, 05:18 PM
  #666
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“He basically taught me how to score goals by setting me up. I can admit I wasn’t a goal-scorer until probably my third year pro,” he said.

Desharnais, who will be a restricted free agent at the end of the season, topped the 60-point mark last year, yet he is often derided as too small and not dynamic enough to be a top-line centre.

Pacioretty thinks that’s nuts.

When people doubt him, I’m like ‘bite your tongue, it’s coming’. He’s so good. Only true hockey people can understand just how good he is. I’ve never seen anyone who sees the ice the way he does,” Pacioretty added. “I want people to keep doubting him because that’s what keeps him going.”
Some interesting quotes about DD from Patches.

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02-22-2013, 11:02 PM
  #667
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Some interesting quotes about DD from Patches.
And yet some keep saying that Eller should replace DD and play with Pac. David and Max complementing each other well, are still relatively young and could grow together as a solid duo for the next year. Chemisty like that between player are needed to succeed.

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02-23-2013, 12:39 AM
  #668
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And yet some keep saying that Eller should replace DD and play with Pac. David and Max complementing each other well, are still relatively young and could grow together as a solid duo for the next year. Chemisty like that between player are needed to succeed.
The question is though, can DD be effective without Pacioretty complementing him? This is a serious concern if the Habs are going to commit to him long term this summer and mold the team around him.

Pacioretty, for 3 different seasons now, has been producing points no matter who he plays with. Going back to the game he started to 'break out' on Jan 21st 2011:

2010/2011: 11 goals - 17 points / 20 games - 0.85 points/game
2011/2012: 33 goals - 65 points / 79 games - 0.82 points/game
2012/2013: 4 goals - 13 points / 13 games - 1.00 points/game (probably will go down to ~0.85 if he's done developing as a player)

There isn't really need to second guess whether he should be signed long term. He can play on any line with any center and will put pucks on net and create/be physical.

Now if Desharnais shows that he can be effective with anyone, be it Gionta, Bourque, Eller, Gallagher, Cole w/o Pacioretty then I think keeping him in the long term plans makes sense since he's flexible and won't restrict lineup. I'm just not sure we have seen that yet from DD. He has chemistry with Pacioretty and seems to know where to find HIM, but can he do the same with Gionta and Bourque on his line? How about Cole and Bourque? Gallagher and Bourque? etc.

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02-23-2013, 01:07 AM
  #669
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That's just not true he had one of his best game this year with Cole and Eller as his winger.

Last year at one time he played with Leblanc and Cammalleri and made them produce.

In his first year he played with Pouliot and White and still made them produce.

In a playoff game playing with Gomez and Gionta he was the catalyst on the line just before being injured.

The problem is his position... In 2 years he'll be our third line center... 5 mil a year for a third line center is a lot.

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02-23-2013, 07:35 AM
  #670
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The question is though, can DD be effective without Pacioretty complementing him? This is a serious concern if the Habs are going to commit to him long term this summer and mold the team around him.

Pacioretty, for 3 different seasons now, has been producing points no matter who he plays with. Going back to the game he started to 'break out' on Jan 21st 2011:

2010/2011: 11 goals - 17 points / 20 games - 0.85 points/game
2011/2012: 33 goals - 65 points / 79 games - 0.82 points/game
2012/2013: 4 goals - 13 points / 13 games - 1.00 points/game (probably will go down to ~0.85 if he's done developing as a player)

There isn't really need to second guess whether he should be signed long term. He can play on any line with any center and will put pucks on net and create/be physical.

Now if Desharnais shows that he can be effective with anyone, be it Gionta, Bourque, Eller, Gallagher, Cole w/o Pacioretty then I think keeping him in the long term plans makes sense since he's flexible and won't restrict lineup. I'm just not sure we have seen that yet from DD. He has chemistry with Pacioretty and seems to know where to find HIM, but can he do the same with Gionta and Bourque on his line? How about Cole and Bourque? Gallagher and Bourque? etc.
Chemistry doesn't happen in a game or two, usually. DD has showed chemistry with BGally and Eller at different points this year, but his chemistry with Pacioretty shines because of they've played probably 150 games together.

I'd like to see DD with Bourque, but its hard to do that considering our top-2 lines only have two guys each that are playing well (DD/Patch and Bourque/Pleks).

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The problem is his position... In 2 years he'll be our third line center... 5 mil a year for a third line center is a lot.
I see an Alex Burrows type discount. Montreal is the team that gave him a chance to make the NHL ... no other team really was stepping up to give him a chance (I think the Isles did briefly but not certain). Montreal has been very good to him.

I could see him finishing around 30-points this year; we should be able to get him for $15M/5-years which doesn't seem unreasonable. If he slumps harder, you should be able to get him dirt cheap ~$2M. If he goes on a tear, that's what worries me. I'm a huge DD fan and while I think his defensive problems are overblown, he's definitely no Plekanec. Even if he finished with 40-points, I'm not sure I'd go over $3.5M-$4M.

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02-23-2013, 10:38 AM
  #671
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The unjustified lack of appreciation for DD make me think about the Ribeiro case. Everybody wanted him out, look what's happening now.

People want Eller to take his place so bad, I wonder some time if they get pissed off when DD produce.

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02-23-2013, 10:44 AM
  #672
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The unjustified lack of appreciation for DD make me think about the Ribeiro case. Everybody wanted him out, look what's happening now.

People want Eller to take his place so bad, I wonder some time if they get pissed off when DD produce.
I wouldn't take Mike Ribeiro back no matter how many points he put up.

I would keep DD though. Long-term I would try him on wing. No reason to move DD right now or any of our centres. Centre depth is important.

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02-23-2013, 10:53 AM
  #673
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David Dasharnais' Next Contract, Cap Hit, Term & Role For Next Season

I can see MB giving him somewhere in the 2 to 2.5 range per for 2 or 3 years maybe, I can't see anything over 3 years being offered. I'm thinking maybe something like...
2.0 season one
2.5 season two
3.0 season three or

2.25 season one
2.75 season two

DD is a great little player but will we even have a spot for him in 2 seasons? And can he continue or improve upon his pace to warrent a bigger next contract?
What does every one else think? Or will we trade him?


Last edited by Pigems*: 02-23-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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02-23-2013, 11:15 AM
  #674
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The unjustified lack of appreciation for DD make me think about the Ribeiro case. Everybody wanted him out, look what's happening now.

People want Eller to take his place so bad, I wonder some time if they get pissed off when DD produce.
In an attempt to boost DD you insult him by comparing him to Riberio's case. DD is all class and character.

I'm starting to think that if someone cannot see that the lack of appreciation for DD is based heavily on him being 5'6'', perpetuating the stereotypical Habs 'smurf', they are purposely ignoring it...

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02-23-2013, 11:16 AM
  #675
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I can see MB giving him somewhere in the 2 to 2.5 range per for 2 or 3 years maybe, I can't see anything over 3 years being offered. I'm thinking maybe something like...
2.0 season one
2.5 season two
3.0 season three or

2.25 season one
2.75 season two

DD is a great little player but will we even have a spot for him in 2 seasons? And can he continue or improve upon his pace to warrent a bigger next contract?
What does every one else think? Or will we trade him?
I think Bergevin wants to see how he does this season before making up his mind on what to offer him.

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