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Tyler Seguin

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Old
02-17-2013, 04:46 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Except the JVR-Kessel duo is lacking a centreman; the same problem the Leafs have had since Sundin left.

Seguin is a potential number 1 centre; a player you can build your team around. Don't be ridiculous.
Know what the JVR-Seguin duo is also missing? A center. News flash for the people who have not paid attention for the last 2 and a half years. Seguin is a RW, and there is currently no proof that he can play center to the same level at the NHL level.

He has also done nothing close to what Kessel has done, so I am not sure what makes him a franchise player if Kessel is not.

Seguin may have 1RW potential, but Kessel is already there and has been there for many years, currently one of the best at that position.

Don't be ridiculous.

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02-17-2013, 05:51 PM
  #27
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Stop........just stop. It's time for HFBoards to require new posters to pass some sort of IQ test.
No kidding lol

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02-17-2013, 06:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cashman rules View Post
No kidding lol
They need it for older posters too then.

Get off the HF bandwagon and look at reality.

Heck, Boston fans even know it better than some in here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1348565

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02-17-2013, 06:06 PM
  #29
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Islanders can offer their 1st Rounder (top 5), Nino Niederreiter and Okposo or Brock Nelson

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02-17-2013, 08:36 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
Islanders can offer their 1st Rounder (top 5), Nino Niederreiter and Okposo or Brock Nelson
How about we will keep our young budding superstar and the rest of you can keep your own players. Tyler is going to be great two way player he was a beast on the back check all game long today and he will only be getting better with age.

I wont even speak of the leaf player,

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02-17-2013, 09:23 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Know what the JVR-Seguin duo is also missing? A center. News flash for the people who have not paid attention for the last 2 and a half years. Seguin is a RW, and there is currently no proof that he can play center to the same level at the NHL level.

He has also done nothing close to what Kessel has done, so I am not sure what makes him a franchise player if Kessel is not.

Seguin may have 1RW potential, but Kessel is already there and has been there for many years, currently one of the best at that position.

Don't be ridiculous.
I would agree with you that Kessel is better than Seguin (atleast for the time being) but disagree with the bolded. Last year he put up 67 points, that's more than Kessel has put up in any season except 1. If you are going to say he is a winger than surely he is a first line winger not a potential first line winger, 67 points is 1st line wing production.

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02-17-2013, 09:25 PM
  #32
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Would something along the lines of Matt Duchene, David Jones and Tyson Barrie/2nd rnd pick be close for Seguin?

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02-17-2013, 09:40 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipShow View Post
Would something along the lines of Matt Duchene, David Jones and Tyson Barrie/2nd rnd pick be close for Seguin?
Why would the Avs trade Duchene+ for Seguin?

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02-17-2013, 09:50 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Except the JVR-Kessel duo is lacking a centreman; the same problem the Leafs have had since Sundin left.

Yes, the Leafs aren't trading Kessel for Seguin because the Bruins wouldn't do that. They know all about Kessel and traded him for draft picks which turned out to be better then most would have projected.


It's not a knock on Kessel, he's a good player and one of the top snipers in the world, but he isn't a player you build your team around. He doesn't bring enough to the table.

Seguin is a potential number 1 centre; a player you can build your team around. Don't be ridiculous.
What exactly do you think Seguin is? He's a winger... nice try though. If we want to move Kessel to center we could - and there has been much talk about it but most feel he's better suited on the wing. He's succeeding there... so don't screw around with it.

Sniper? Honestly this alone proves how little you no about Kessel. Maybe early on his career yes but he's completely changed his style. Kessel is more of a playmaker and makes those around him better. If you want examples - look at Lupul's career. If you want a second example look at JVR so far.

Seguin can only hope to be an 80 + point player. So why in the hell would leaf fans want to trade for Seguin to only hope he will be as good as Kessel? Your points are ridiculous - and extremely flawed.

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02-17-2013, 09:53 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
Why would the Avs trade Duchene+ for Seguin?
because Seguin is a franchise proven center remember

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02-17-2013, 09:57 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
Why would the Avs trade Duchene+ for Seguin?

Why not? I value Seguin more than Duchene. I believe Seguin is and will be the better overall player in the NHL

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02-17-2013, 10:13 PM
  #37
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I think it's incredible how much people are beating on him this season like he is invisible. He isn't putting up gaudy numbers like some forwards are early in the year; but he has 8 points in 13 games; and he looks far more defensively responsible than in the past few years.

I expect him to have a breakout game sooner rather than later.

Not that I wouldn't consider some of the overpayments being offered here!!

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02-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
I would agree with you that Kessel is better than Seguin (atleast for the time being) but disagree with the bolded. Last year he put up 67 points, that's more than Kessel has put up in any season except 1. If you are going to say he is a winger than surely he is a first line winger not a potential first line winger, 67 points is 1st line wing production.
Kessel has 2 seasons that pace better, and 2 that pace about the same, out of 4 seasons in a tougher position than Seguin was in. Seguin also has the benefit of playing on a Stanley-Cup contending team, with a Selke-calibur center and good teammates, while Kessel has been on a struggling team with junk linemates for half of the time.

Seguin has also not looked great so far this year. It is very possible that Seguin's career high will be 67 points. You could argue he was a 1B RW last year (Maybe low 1st-liner in points, but not in matchup), but he also only has 1 year at that level, while Kessel has 4 in a row (plus 2 playoffs FWIW), and is working on his 5th.

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02-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #39
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Old
02-17-2013, 11:22 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Kessel has 2 seasons that pace better, and 2 that pace about the same, out of 4 seasons in a tougher position than Seguin was in. Seguin also has the benefit of playing on a Stanley-Cup contending team, with a Selke-calibur center and good teammates, while Kessel has been on a struggling team with junk linemates for half of the time.

Seguin has also not looked great so far this year. It is very possible that Seguin's career high will be 67 points. You could argue he was a 1B RW last year (Maybe low 1st-liner in points, but not in matchup), but he also only has 1 year at that level, while Kessel has 4 in a row (plus 2 playoffs FWIW), and is working on his 5th.
To play along since you are changing the parameters Kessel has had a higher pace twice out of 6 years than 67 points and a lower pace 4 times. One of those times by the way was narrowly when Kessel played with Marc Savard as his center, a better offensive center than Seguin has ever played with. And matchup? Often you put your selke winner against the other team top line so it isn't soft matchups.

Kessel does have lesser linemates but also gets more icetime/pp time so that helps as mitigating factor.

And I even said Kessel is better, for now. It is unlikely that Seguins point total at age 20will be his carear high.

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02-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
To play along since you are changing the parameters Kessel has had a higher pace twice out of 6 years than 67 points and a lower pace 4 times. One of those times by the way was narrowly when Kessel played with Marc Savard as his center, a better offensive center than Seguin has ever played with. And matchup? Often you put your selke winner against the other team top line so it isn't soft matchups.

Kessel does have lesser linemates but also gets more icetime/pp time so that helps as mitigating factor.

And I even said Kessel is better, for now. It is unlikely that Seguins point total at age 20will be his carear high.
I am changing no parameters. The first two years, Kessel didn't get put in a scoring role, much like Seguin in his first year. Comparing both in a scoring role, Kessel has paced more in 2 years (one, the most recent, significantly more, with Bozak as his center), and has paced 3 points less (but more goals) in the other 2 years.

The biggest difference is that Kessel faces the top shutdown players, and is often double-teamed, and Seguin faces top offensive players, who are mainly shut down by Bergeron.

Usually, a player does not hit his career high at 20. When that 20-year old is on a Stanley Cup contending, high scoring team, getting prime offensive opportunities and top minutes with good players while not even facing the shutdown units, it is a little more likely.

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02-18-2013, 12:31 AM
  #42
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02-18-2013, 01:30 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
I am changing no parameters. The first two years, Kessel didn't get put in a scoring role, much like Seguin in his first year. Comparing both in a scoring role, Kessel has paced more in 2 years (one, the most recent, significantly more, with Bozak as his center), and has paced 3 points less (but more goals) in the other 2 years.

The biggest difference is that Kessel faces the top shutdown players, and is often double-teamed, and Seguin faces top offensive players, who are mainly shut down by Bergeron.

Usually, a player does not hit his career high at 20. When that 20-year old is on a Stanley Cup contending, high scoring team, getting prime offensive opportunities and top minutes with good players while not even facing the shutdown units, it is a little more likely.
It is a myth that playing on the Bruins optimizes point totals. Julien is fond of rolling 4 lines and spreads out the minutes. He'd get that many points in lots of situations as with most teams he would get more icetime and more power play time and of course Segiun is likely to play with good players because he is a first line winger himself as I have said. So many Leaf fans can never admit that he is a talented player, like he somehow got drafted #2 overall by total accident.

What do you think the percentage of players who score their career high in points at age 20 or earlier is? 1? You'd probably have to round up.

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02-18-2013, 01:36 AM
  #44
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21 year old 2nd Overall Pick stumbles after a 67 point season. What is his trade value?

Evander Kane and a pick.

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02-18-2013, 04:17 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
It is a myth that playing on the Bruins optimizes point totals. Julien is fond of rolling 4 lines and spreads out the minutes. He'd get that many points in lots of situations as with most teams he would get more icetime and more power play time and of course Segiun is likely to play with good players because he is a first line winger himself as I have said. So many Leaf fans can never admit that he is a talented player, like he somehow got drafted #2 overall by total accident.
It is not a myth that playing on winning teams inflates point totals. Gives much more opportunity for easy points. Also not a myth that playing with superior linemates inflates point totals and makes things easier on the player. Also not a myth that it is harder to score against shutdown lines than offensive players, especially when your linemate already does all the shutting down for you.

I'm sure he's really hurting with only 18 minutes of ice time (more than any other 2nd-liner), 3 of which is on the PP.

He is a talented player. Nobody is denying that. He is also incredibly overrated, and his style is so similar to Kessel that is is actually a little creepy. He just doesn't have the same shot. Or speed. Or passing ability for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
What do you think the percentage of players who score their career high in points at age 20 or earlier is? 1? You'd probably have to round up.
Perhaps, but that percentage likely changes counting only top picks. Also, what do you think the percentage of players being given such favourable conditions at that age is?

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02-18-2013, 06:15 AM
  #46
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No, it is not bad. Know what is better than JVR-Seguin, Kadri-Frattin?

JVR-Kessel, Kadri-Frattin.

Leafs are not trading Kessel, especially not for Seguin (who is essentially the exact same player, except less talented). Let it go.
If you think they are even close to the same player you don't watch one of them play.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:12 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
It is not a myth that playing on winning teams inflates point totals. Gives much more opportunity for easy points. Also not a myth that playing with superior linemates inflates point totals and makes things easier on the player. Also not a myth that it is harder to score against shutdown lines than offensive players, especially when your linemate already does all the shutting down for you.

I'm sure he's really hurting with only 18 minutes of ice time (more than any other 2nd-liner), 3 of which is on the PP.

He is a talented player. Nobody is denying that. He is also incredibly overrated, and his style is so similar to Kessel that is is actually a little creepy. He just doesn't have the same shot. Or speed. Or passing ability for that matter.


Perhaps, but that percentage likely changes counting only top picks. Also, what do you think the percentage of players being given such favourable conditions at that age is?
It isn't a myth that more ice time helps you get more production. Kessel gets more ice time so that is a big mitigating factor.

As I said it's a myth that playing for the Bruins optimizes your point total. Ryder's point totals went up playing in Dallas last year and were higher in Montreal, Wheerler's went up playing in Winnipeg. Peverley produced at a higher clip in Atlanta. Horton produced more in Florida. All on weaker teams.

So who are all of these top picks whose career high was at age 20 or before? Can you name some? Certainly not Kessel when he was 20 he got 37 points.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:32 AM
  #48
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Maybe package up Seguin for Kessel

Hamilton+Seguin+Knight for Kessel....seems fair
as a leafs fan i do this, we may need to add a 7th but looks pretty fair to me,







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02-18-2013, 10:52 AM
  #49
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because Seguin is a franchise proven center remember
And got a ring pretty quick,remember??

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02-18-2013, 12:53 PM
  #50
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And got a ring pretty quick,remember??
So did Tomas Kaberle...

4 years later and Kessel is still the best player in the trade.

Kessel got less on his second contract than Seguin to boot.

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