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Hamilton reported back in NHL hunt

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Old
07-11-2006, 05:46 PM
  #26
JimmyD
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This is reportedly why Ottawa got the franchise in the early 90s instead of Hamilton, who if I recall, were believed to have a stronger bid than Ottawa at the time.

If there was justice in the world there would be a team in Hamilton.

When the Senators were awarded their franchise, the way it was supposed to work was one Canadian city and one American city (Tampa Bay) were going to get a franchise.

The Hamilton bid had secure ownership (Tim Horton's), an arena already built (Copps Coliseum) and more season tickets sold than the Ottawa bid.

The Ottawa bid had a piece of F***ing farmland in Kanata (a 30 minute drive downtown Ottawa) Paul Anka as the face of the ownership bid and the Leafs and Sabres to block Hamilton's bid.

When I watched the Sens not sell out playoff games and go bankrupt it made me furious. To this day I have sworn myself to hate the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Buffalo Sabres and the Ottawa Senators.

Thanks for the vent,

Sincerely,

a habs fan from Hamilton, living in Ottawa.

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07-11-2006, 08:49 PM
  #27
bodybreak
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I don't think MLSE would let Hamilton happen. Hamilton wouldn't let Toronto get an AHL team, they practically had to steal the Bulldogs away. Owners put the team up for sale and this guy who had always dreamed of bringing the Roadrunnres to Toronto bought them and changed the name. Then there was apparently an outcry among Hamilton fans over losing their team and the ownersr went out and bought the Citadelles. That's what I read in a 'Dogs program a couple years ago anyway.

MLSE might not care about that so much, because they weren't involved with the Roadrunners at all, and they are involved with the Marlies, which operate out of Toronto without a peep from Hamilton.

But the Steel City is still a part of Leaf Nation, and I don't see money-grubbing MLSE allowing a piece of Leaf Nation to be chiselled away, no matter how small. Hamilton is supposed to hate Toronto, but their store shelves are stocked with tons of blue and white merchandise, compared to one sad-sack Bulldogs shop that wasn't even open on a Saturday game day despite being right next door to Copps, operating out of a run-down downtown mall known to be frequented by drug dealers and cops.

I really hope Winnipeg gets a team!. Heck, if Hamilton wants the NHL, I hope MLSE lets em in and the team flourishes. AHL crowds and merch sales have nothing to do with it (see Minnesota Moose: average ~3,000 attendance), so game on Canada.

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07-11-2006, 10:38 PM
  #28
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hamilton would win a cup before toronto . that is what the leafs are worried about

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07-11-2006, 10:50 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybreak View Post
I don't think MLSE would let Hamilton happen. Hamilton wouldn't let Toronto get an AHL team, they practically had to steal the Bulldogs away. Owners put the team up for sale and this guy who had always dreamed of bringing the Roadrunnres to Toronto bought them and changed the name. Then there was apparently an outcry among Hamilton fans over losing their team and the ownersr went out and bought the Citadelles. That's what I read in a 'Dogs program a couple years ago anyway.

(see Manitoba Moose: average ~3,000 attendance)
I don't understand the first paragraph.

I think the Bulldogs were there before the Citadelles folded in Quebec. It was basically Edmonton's farm when we arrived, and they let us in the place after one year........to create the Toronto Roadrunners, which were their farm team for a couple years before they folded too. Then, the Leafs brought the St John's Maple Leafs closer to home, and created the Toronto Marlies, while the Oilers don't have their own farm team anymore (and that's why we accepted to share the 'Dogs with them).

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07-11-2006, 11:10 PM
  #30
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Hey Stan,

Yeh, I didn't make myself super clear on that first paragraph, I agree.

The Bulldogs were around before the Citadelles, but, one season, the 'Dogs owners decided to sell the team to this guy that wanted to bring the AHL in Toronto. Hamilton fans weren't happy about this, but didn't voice their concerns until it was too late. Luckily for them, the Citadelles were up for sale that same year, so the folks that sold the Dogs bought the Citadelles, and so Hamilton didn't have to go without hockey.

I never would have known about this had I not read it in a Bulldogs program. I don't think it was widely known outside of Hamilton.

But, in my last paragraph, where I mention AHL crowds and merchandise sales have nothing to do with getting and NHL team back, I am referring to the Minnesota Moose avg. attendance of ~ 3,000. The team was there for two years prior to it's current stint in Winnipeg, and didn't draw a lot of fans, before the NHL returned to the Twin Cities and sold out every game. The Manitoba Moose average 7,000 or so fans per game, consistently near the top of the league. Come playoff time they have attracted crowds of 15,000 and set attendance records for playoff games held before the final round.

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07-11-2006, 11:19 PM
  #31
StanAjax
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Thanks for the clearance, pretty confusing as somehow, the Oilers and Habs are mixed with both these AHL teams, before and after the sales.

About the Moose thing, it was confusing too because you ask for a come back to Canada after talking about a Minnesota team. I too consider Minnesota as a Canadian province south of the border when it comes to hockey, but it's still supposed to be in the USA.

So I just agree with you then.

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07-12-2006, 05:49 PM
  #32
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It used to be:
Citadelles-Habs
Bulldogs-Oilers

Then it went to:
Bulldogs-Habs
Roadrunners-Oilers

Then the Bulldogs were a mix of Oilers and Canadiens. Now the Bulldogs will be Canadiens only, although they will still allow a couple of Oiler prospects to play on the team. I agree... soooo confusing!

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07-12-2006, 06:01 PM
  #33
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guys guys guys you're forgetting about a lot of stuff.

I mean sure the owners have a lot of money to fund hamilton but do the fans?!?!? I mean Hamilton economy is not exactly booming right now, in fact its the opposite (and i'm not saying that in any demeaning way)

As well, the NHL hardly gains anything by having a franchise in Hamilton, because Hamilton citizens are already leafs/sabres/habs fans. A move into a KC or Portland would be more beneficial.

Television-wise. It's obvious, the only thing hte NHL gains is an already saturated HNIC. A team in the US would help more, even if they don't have as many fans as Hamilton.

Right now, I see Kansas City, Portland, Houston, Winnipeg and Quebec City all getting a team before Hamilton.

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07-12-2006, 06:06 PM
  #34
StanAjax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybreak View Post
It used to be:
Citadelles-Habs
Bulldogs-Oilers

Then it went to:
Bulldogs-Habs
Roadrunners-Oilers

Then the Bulldogs were a mix of Oilers and Canadiens. Now the Bulldogs will be Canadiens only, although they will still allow a couple of Oiler prospects to play on the team. I agree... soooo confusing!
And you forget a year between the "it used to be" and the "then it went to" when there were no more Citadelles, when the Roadrunners were not there yet, and when we already shared the Bulldogs with the Oilers. That's the year we hired Julien, and it cost us a pick that we sent to Edmonton.

By the way, the AHL wanted (still wants I guess) to be a 30-team league with a clear affilitiation one AHL team = one NHL team. I guess local economics don't make that goal easy to achieve as several teams appear or disappear each year.

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Old
07-12-2006, 10:08 PM
  #35
habs101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namso View Post
guys guys guys you're forgetting about a lot of stuff.

I mean sure the owners have a lot of money to fund hamilton but do the fans?!?!? I mean Hamilton economy is not exactly booming right now, in fact its the opposite (and i'm not saying that in any demeaning way)

As well, the NHL hardly gains anything by having a franchise in Hamilton, because Hamilton citizens are already leafs/sabres/habs fans. A move into a KC or Portland would be more beneficial.

Television-wise. It's obvious, the only thing hte NHL gains is an already saturated HNIC. A team in the US would help more, even if they don't have as many fans as Hamilton.

Right now, I see Kansas City, Portland, Houston, Winnipeg and Quebec City all getting a team before Hamilton.

Hey look, Hamilton might not be Toronto, but our economy is not that bad as you say. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, we have a lot of hockey fans in the region (12 million people from fort erie to oshawa, 1/3 of canadas population) so we don't have to rely on our city alone, and if it is true that its RIM involved in the bid, then it would make total sense for a team to move to Hamilton and the compensation to the sabres and Leafs (approx 180 million i heard at one time) will not be a problem for this type of ownership.

Another team in the States (Portland, Houston, Kansas City) will not have enough fan support regardless of the millions of people in that market. Those are not hockey markets and the NHL should realize this when approving relocations and awarding franchises. Winnipeg, QC and Ham, are all better options for running a successful franchise, especially in the new NHL. But we'll see what happens, I agree with you that they will probably go somewhere where hockey has no place.

Cheers

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