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It's about to get real up in here: prospect rankings from 2007-08

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:49 AM
  #26
joe89
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As I said going into this season, Kindl has had his fair share of chances to get a full-time spot on this team. 100+ NHL games coming in, and 55 of them came last year. Has he been spoon-fed? Definitely not. But he's had chances.

My personal opinion of what's holding him back is his lack of special team qualities. The guy can pass the puck, but he never looks good on the PP. He sometimes makes strong physical plays, but he never plays on the PK because he's not a good shot blocker.

Want a stat? 94:23. That's Kindl's career PPTOI. In the roughly 94 minutes he's spent on the PP, he has one(1) point. An assist.

Coaches like players that are versatile and Kindl only brings 5on5 play to the table. 3rd pairing 5on5 play.

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02-18-2013, 11:56 AM
  #27
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How many of those games were anything more than bottom pairing minutes (10-14/game) and constantly being rotated in and out of the lineup for guys like Commie and Salei (RIP). Kinda hard to gain confidence when always being afraid of making a mistake and being benched and scratched, because it seems like your coach has it out for you.
Even in this injury riddled season he's still below Lashoff and Huskins both haven't been spectacular and IMO haven't been better than Kindl.
With the injuries to Smitty and Cola he's been given a chance at increased minutes and a larger role, and if he was still playing poorly then I could be convinced that he doesn't belong on this team and maybe the NHL. However that wasn't the case, he's playing the best hockey of his career and while still making some mistakes he's playing better each game and looking like our 1st round pick with only 9 games under his belt this season.
I have to agree with lash off point. Outside of his first couple games I don't know why he is still in our top pairing. And kindle has been better, like I said. And I hope I'm wrong an u guys are right about him.
But my opinion so far this year on our defense. Outside of Ericsson being good. And kronwall getting point. The rest of our defense just sorta blur together.

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02-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post

Want a stat? 94:23. That's Kindl's career PPTOI. In the roughly 94 minutes he's spent on the PP, he has one(1) point. An assist.
23:38 of those minutes came this year with our god awful 2nd unit PP

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02-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #29
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13 points in 55 games, a plus rating in his second season, and 3rd in points with a plus rating, more hits per game than other defensemen this year isn't good enough?

We all know Babcock has his favourites. For people to think that doesn't affect players chances to get in games shows some extreme ignorance.
Eh, I think it's safe to say Babs wasn't Jiri Hudler's biggest fan. But it didn't keep Babs from playing Hudler. Hudler had 400 NHL games and 66 playoff games as a Red Wing. Babs is not going to sacrifice winning by keeping a guy out of the lineup if he can actually contribute. He pulled Hasek in the 2008 playoffs and replaced him with Osgood. He replaced Osgood with Howard during Howard's rookie season.

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02-18-2013, 11:58 AM
  #30
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As i said. He's definitely been better this year. But he is still prone to turnovers and getting caught out of position. ****. Quincey leads our team in +\- Stats can be very misleading when talking about how a player really plays.

All I'm saying is this year. He's been average. Along with the rest if our defenseman other than Ericsson kronner and maybe white. So I see no reason why he shouldn't be included in the healthy scratch rotation.
Then what else does he have to do to earn a roster spot?

These young guys (Tatar, Nyquist, Kindl, etc.) aren't going to come into Detroit and be amazing, albeit Tats has been pretty good. And most of our defenseman, even Kronwall have not been average. Being young and average is enough to get you on any team not named the Red Wings at least in a minor role. That's because:

1. You can still develop and take on an even larger role or just stay average at the worst.
2. Your cheaper than "proven" depth players who are not much, if at all, better than you.
3. If it doesn't work out then your not stuck with a terrible multi-year contract (Quincey).

There's no reason why Kindl shouldn't be playing every night on at least the third-pairing.

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02-18-2013, 12:00 PM
  #31
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Eh, I think it's safe to say Babs wasn't Jiri Hudler's biggest fan. But it didn't keep Babs from playing Hudler. Hudler had 400 NHL games and 66 playoff games as a Red Wing. Babs is not going to sacrifice winning by keeping a guy out of the lineup if he can actually contribute. He pulled Hasek in the 2008 playoffs and replaced him with Osgood. He replaced Osgood with Howard during Howard's rookie season.
Hudler was a better player than Kindl though so its not really a fair comparison.

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02-18-2013, 12:00 PM
  #32
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What I like about that list, is that those 8 guys on the top 10 prospects list from five years ago, is on the team today. Somebody is doing something right!
But why oh why do they hate Kuba so much!?!?!?




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02-18-2013, 12:01 PM
  #33
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Hudler was a better player than Kindl though so its not really a fair comparison.
Ah, the light seems to be going on.

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02-18-2013, 12:32 PM
  #34
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What I like about that list, is that those 8 guys on the top 10 prospects list from five years ago, is on the team today. Somebody is doing something right!
The current team with 8 former top 10 propsects ain't exactly tearing up the league.

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02-18-2013, 12:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Eh, I think it's safe to say Babs wasn't Jiri Hudler's biggest fan. But it didn't keep Babs from playing Hudler. Hudler had 400 NHL games and 66 playoff games as a Red Wing. Babs is not going to sacrifice winning by keeping a guy out of the lineup if he can actually contribute. He pulled Hasek in the 2008 playoffs and replaced him with Osgood. He replaced Osgood with Howard during Howard's rookie season.
Rightttt... Hudler was always used to the best of his abilities and never the victim of Babcock's arbitrary likes and dislikes.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:41 PM
  #36
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Kindl has been fine. No reason he shouldn't be in the line up consistently right now.

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02-18-2013, 12:41 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Ah, the light seems to be going on.
Isn't that obvious though? I mean they're two totally different teams depth-wise. Kindl hasn't given Babcock any reason to scratch him over some of the other players on the team.

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02-18-2013, 12:42 PM
  #38
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Babcock's description of Lashoff is a major problem -- if he really believes that.

I don't see physical play from Lashoff. I don't see "ruggedness." I see lots of falling down and passes in skates and out-of-position defending -- and worst, I see a lot of Red Light reflecting off the Red Wings goal posts.

Babcock must like the way he works in practice or something. Because in game, he's awful. He's a younger, faster, but way more inexperienced Kent Huskins.

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02-18-2013, 12:44 PM
  #39
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I'm more worried about Kronwall's play. Kindl has been fine for the role he has been given.

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02-18-2013, 12:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Babcock's description of Lashoff is a major problem -- if he really believes that.

I don't see physical play from Lashoff. I don't see "ruggedness." I see lots of falling down and passes in skates and out-of-position defending -- and worst, I see a lot of Red Light reflecting off the Red Wings goal posts.

Babcock must like the way he works in practice or something. Because in game, he's awful. He's a younger, faster, but way more inexperienced Kent Huskins.
There must be a ton of stuff that we're missing out on during practice.

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02-18-2013, 12:49 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
As I said going into this season, Kindl has had his fair share of chances to get a full-time spot on this team. 100+ NHL games coming in, and 55 of them came last year. Has he been spoon-fed? Definitely not. But he's had chances.

My personal opinion of what's holding him back is his lack of special team qualities. The guy can pass the puck, but he never looks good on the PP. He sometimes makes strong physical plays, but he never plays on the PK because he's not a good shot blocker.

Want a stat? 94:23. That's Kindl's career PPTOI. In the roughly 94 minutes he's spent on the PP, he has one(1) point. An assist.

Coaches like players that are versatile and Kindl only brings 5on5 play to the table. 3rd pairing 5on5 play.
Wow. 94 wholes minutes of PP TOI? Most of that last year when Datsyuk and Lidstrom were hurt and our PP sucked?


Kindl made a beauty of a pass to Andersson for Joakim's goal the other day. And he got benched for it.

It's funny to here people trying to make the case that Kindl -- a PUCK MOVING DEFENSEMAN - has had plenty of time to show what he's got.

Kindl's entire career has been spent with Abdelkaders and Millers of the world.
Yet his even strength production per minute is as good or better than just about anyone over the last two years.

And you people try to make the case that JK has gotten a fair shake at the same time as Lashoff gets called to the NHL and gets time with Kronwall, Zetterberg, Brunner and Datsyuk...

While our puck moving defenseman gets a bunch of forwards with stone hands.

It's really a stupid argument you're making.

You people made the same stupid argument with Hudler, when he came back from Russia and sucked on lines 3 and 4. He gets bumped up to Datsyuk and he scores a point a game for the month.

If Kindl was Swedish, you'd be singing a different tune

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02-18-2013, 12:52 PM
  #42
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I'm more worried about Kronwall's play. Kindl has been fine for the role he has been given.
I'd love to see a Kronwall Kindl pairing for 10 games...


Or at least
Kindl Ericsson.

The Red Wings are completely wasting an opportunity to see what he's about once and for all.

And that's on Babcock. Because Babcock thinks Huskins and Lashoff give this team a better chance to win....

Good one Babs.

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02-18-2013, 01:12 PM
  #43
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Kindl is better than Quincey, Huskins and Lashoff. I feel terrible for this kid the way Babcock and Holland have treated him.

This needed to be the year that we allowed him to play in every game in order to make a conclusive assessment of what we have in him.

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02-18-2013, 01:19 PM
  #44
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Or at least
Kindl Ericsson.
for sure. its like everyone seems to forget how solid that pair was for us in the past when they have had some time together.

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02-18-2013, 01:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I'd love to see a Kronwall Kindl pairing for 10 games...


Or at least
Kindl Ericsson.

The Red Wings are completely wasting an opportunity to see what he's about once and for all.

And that's on Babcock. Because Babcock thinks Huskins and Lashoff give this team a better chance to win....

Good one Babs.
I agree with your statements here about kindl. He's looked good this year. Granted, there's not a whole lot to compare to, but he's done well for as injured and clustered as this team's been. I've been saying for a year or two now that kindl will break out, but I doubt it happens with the wings.

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:21 PM
  #46
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Rightttt... Hudler was always used to the best of his abilities and never the victim of Babcock's arbitrary likes and dislikes.
Hudler was used to the best of his abilities. He largely played on a line with Filppula who is a playmaker. Hudler was expected to score goals. Hudler got top 6 time last season and was utilized mostly as a middle six offensive forward. His minutes got cut when you were ahead and grew when you were behind. Hudler also got lots of time on the power play.

Are you suggesting Huds should have been on the PK as well?

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02-18-2013, 01:33 PM
  #47
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The success the Red Wings have had masked the organization's inability to handle prospects. Let's just hope they don't put off getting Jarnkrok, Jurco, Ouellet and Sproul in the AHL. All should be playing on the Griffins next year, I'm aware Jurco already is.


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Old
02-18-2013, 01:45 PM
  #48
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02-18-2013, 01:47 PM
  #49
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Babcock's description of Lashoff is a major problem -- if he really believes that.

I don't see physical play from Lashoff. I don't see "ruggedness." I see lots of falling down and passes in skates and out-of-position defending -- and worst, I see a lot of Red Light reflecting off the Red Wings goal posts.

Babcock must like the way he works in practice or something. Because in game, he's awful. He's a younger, faster, but way more inexperienced Kent Huskins.
He is probably just trying to build his confidence.

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02-18-2013, 02:04 PM
  #50
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Maybe he just doesn't work in our system. Some players don't flourish in certain systems. He may simply may not be a good fit.

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