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Columbus signs Hainsey to a 2 yr contract

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Old
07-11-2006, 09:03 PM
  #26
znk
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Yes, he needed a defenseman but ended up losing even him...of course it was a mistake...at the worst time...
Explain.

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07-11-2006, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
That's right. We didn't give up on Hainsey.

Someone (aka Gainey) was asleep at the wheel and let him get taken off the waivers unintentionally when he shouldn't have been going through the waivers at that time...and this came at the worst possible time when CH were riddled with injuries to their D.

Bob made a mistake and Doug capitized on it. Gainey needs to be a little sharper...I mean Doug MacLean did this to him...tsk, tsk...
How was Gainey asleep at the wheel? How was it a mistake? He was trying to put together a full lineup for a game. Sure he could have left Hainsey in Hamilton all year but what good would that have done. They likely would have just let him go this offseason. Simply put Hainsey had numerous chances to make the team and could never stick. That was not Bob Gainey's fault, it was Ron Hainsey's fault.

Building a hockey team is not about hoarding away marginal players in the minor leagues.

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07-11-2006, 09:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NewGuy View Post
How was Gainey asleep at the wheel? How was it a mistake? He was trying to put together a full lineup for a game. Sure he could have left Hainsey in Hamilton all year but what good would that have done. They likely would have just let him go this offseason. Simply put Hainsey had numerous chances to make the team and could never stick. That was not Bob Gainey's fault, it was Ron Hainsey's fault.

Building a hockey team is not about hoarding away marginal players in the minor leagues.
Building a team is all about managing your assets.

You can develop your asset or you can get asset back for your asset.

Bob did neither.

On top of that, had Bob been awake to realize that Columbus had a number of their defensemen go down, including Adam Foote at the time, and were in need of a defenseman to plug their hole like Montreal did at the same time, he wouldn't have tried to recall him at that time.

Rather, Bob would have tried to recall another, lesser prospect to sit on the bench as the 6th or 7th defenseman for a game or two and then send him back down...all of which may have pissed off Hainsey enough to try a little harder...either for next year or to be used as trade bait.

Bob has made a number of mistakes. To deny it is just unexplainable. The biggest of which being Beauchmin...boy how we could have use a hard nosed, agile defender this past spring in the playoffs...!!!

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07-11-2006, 09:46 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Building a team is all about managing your assets.

You can develop your asset or you can get asset back for your asset.

Bob did neither.

On top of that, had Bob been awake to realize that Columbus had a number of their defensemen go down, including Adam Foote at the time, and were in need of a defenseman to plug their hole like Montreal did at the same time, he wouldn't have tried to recall him at that time.

Rather, Bob would have tried to recall another, lesser prospect to sit on the bench as the 6th or 7th defenseman for a game or two and then send him back down...all of which may have pissed off Hainsey enough to try a little harder...either for next year or to be used as trade bait.

Bob has made a number of mistakes. To deny it is just unexplainable. The biggest of which being Beauchmin...boy how we could have use a hard nosed, agile defender this past spring in the playoffs...!!!
How did bob get Begin? I forgot.

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07-11-2006, 10:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej View Post
Cote never been near Hainsey in the depth charts and the 1st year Hainsey got a look and got sent down he knew what he had to work on. The 2nd year he was much better and played better than Quintal or Bouillon , it's just that as a rookie and offensive d-men he was prone to turning the puck over and the Habs wanted to play it safe. Same could be said about Bauchemin , but he never got a real chance in MTL . And im not blaming anyone i just said the team was looking for Vets to take them to the playoffs.
I don't know why you say that he was much better than Quintal or Bouillon .Everybody expected Hainsey to makes the team , but he was doing so risky plays everytime he touched the puck , that he was sending down . I think that you just look at his stats to say that he was better than the other two .

I remember how Quintal was always in trouble , because he had to cover bothe his side and the one of Hainsey . Nobody were considering Bouillon to be there , so if Hainsey was send down , it was because he didn't play well .

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07-11-2006, 10:08 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Building a team is all about managing your assets.

You can develop your asset or you can get asset back for your asset.

Bob did neither.

On top of that, had Bob been awake to realize that Columbus had a number of their defensemen go down, including Adam Foote at the time, and were in need of a defenseman to plug their hole like Montreal did at the same time, he wouldn't have tried to recall him at that time.

Rather, Bob would have tried to recall another, lesser prospect to sit on the bench as the 6th or 7th defenseman for a game or two and then send him back down...all of which may have pissed off Hainsey enough to try a little harder...either for next year or to be used as trade bait.

Bob has made a number of mistakes. To deny it is just unexplainable. The biggest of which being Beauchmin...boy how we could have use a hard nosed, agile defender this past spring in the playoffs...!!!
Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to development. You were probably one of the guys that wanted to lynch Gainey over trading Hossa last year. Well, you know what, that ended up being a good move. Look at Ryder, noboby thought he would become anything, and he's a key piece of the Montreal organisation.

When it comes to prospects you're doing great when you're right 50% of the time. Think about it, if even every first and second rounder lived up to the hype and played to their potential the ENTIRE league would be filled with incredible players. I mean look at Alexandre Daigle...This guy should be tearing it up and competing for records...as it is he's barely making the roster of a borderline team. Its too easy to critisize after the fact...I trust Gainey to make more good moves than bad ones.

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07-11-2006, 10:11 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Building a team is all about managing your assets.

You can develop your asset or you can get asset back for your asset.

Bob did neither.

On top of that, had Bob been awake to realize that Columbus had a number of their defensemen go down, including Adam Foote at the time, and were in need of a defenseman to plug their hole like Montreal did at the same time, he wouldn't have tried to recall him at that time.

Rather, Bob would have tried to recall another, lesser prospect to sit on the bench as the 6th or 7th defenseman for a game or two and then send him back down...all of which may have pissed off Hainsey enough to try a little harder...either for next year or to be used as trade bait.

Bob has made a number of mistakes. To deny it is just unexplainable. The biggest of which being Beauchmin...boy how we could have use a hard nosed, agile defender this past spring in the playoffs...!!!
kind of thing easy to say 1-2 years after . I was hight about Beauchemin , but i never read a lot of enthusuastic posts about him , on this forum . I know that Dan ( Montreal ) was also high about him , but most of the fans were all on Hainsey and Komisarek . Beauchemin was an outsider .

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07-11-2006, 10:24 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Moester View Post
Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to development. You were probably one of the guys that wanted to lynch Gainey over trading Hossa last year. Well, you know what, that ended up being a good move. Look at Ryder, noboby thought he would become anything, and he's a key piece of the Montreal organisation.

When it comes to prospects you're doing great when you're right 50% of the time. Think about it, if even every first and second rounder lived up to the hype and played to their potential the ENTIRE league would be filled with incredible players. I mean look at Alexandre Daigle...This guy should be tearing it up and competing for records...as it is he's barely making the roster of a borderline team. Its too easy to critisize after the fact...I trust Gainey to make more good moves than bad ones.
You're talking like you know me...which is your first mistake.

I was not one of those who wanted to lynch Gainey over trading Hossa. I was one of those who wanted to lynch Houle for not selecting the other Hossa and then trying to make up for it with the younger Hossa.

And this thread is about how Gainey was asleep at the wheel when he should have been doing his home work...not about recognizing talent. That's another thread altogether.

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07-11-2006, 10:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mark0v View Post
kind of thing easy to say 1-2 years after . I was hight about Beauchemin , but i never read a lot of enthusuastic posts about him , on this forum . I know that Dan ( Montreal ) was also high about him , but most of the fans were all on Hainsey and Komisarek . Beauchemin was an outsider .
What's HF posters have to do with Bob making mistakes? You're not saying that Bob bases all his decisions on what guys like you have to say, are you?

If you are, that is truly sad...first for you... and second, for Bob...

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07-11-2006, 10:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by mark0v View Post
I don't know why you say that he was much better than Quintal or Bouillon .Everybody expected Hainsey to makes the team , but he was doing so risky plays everytime he touched the puck , that he was sending down . I think that you just look at his stats to say that he was better than the other two .

I remember how Quintal was always in trouble , because he had to cover bothe his side and the one of Hainsey . Nobody were considering Bouillon to be there , so if Hainsey was send down , it was because he didn't play well .
I was one of the few that liked him enough back then , he even made comments he didn't really know why he was sent down. That was not well recived among the fans and he's been bashed for it because his reputation was already weak. And Quintal was pretty much always in trouble.

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07-11-2006, 10:33 PM
  #36
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I always thought Hainsey had the talent. As mentioned to me before this month, It's too bad we lost him through waivers. The Habs pretty much lost him and lost their first pick Would have been nice to get something in return!

But I agree that his talent will come in handy when he feels like playing. I like CUBE more...

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07-11-2006, 10:38 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by David View Post
You're talking like you know me...which is your first mistake.

I was not one of those who wanted to lynch Gainey over trading Hossa. I was one of those who wanted to lynch Houle for not selecting the other Hossa and then trying to make up for it with the younger Hossa.

And this thread is about how Gainey was asleep at the wheel when he should have been doing his home work...not about recognizing talent. That's another thread altogether.
I agree with u on some of your points about the timing hainsey was brought up. Columbus was waiting for it.

But this thread is not about how gainey was asleep at the wheel.etc.


It is about how hainsey signed a new 2 yr contract.

He was a better player for columbus than he was in Montreal and hamilton....

He needed a change... Maybe gainey could have recognized this and traded him, but the guy was 25, he took a really long time to pan out, he even needed a demotion to hamilton again and then a waiver pickup by columbus and a spot in their lineup.

As for beauchemin i barely knew about him, let alone be high on his upside. Which is pretty high now.

So far gainey has been pretty good at picking out talent in the forward and goaltending positions, but maybe a questionable record in sizeing up defencemen.

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07-11-2006, 10:49 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
It is about how hainsey signed a new 2 yr contract.

He was a better player for columbus than he was in Montreal and hamilton....

He needed a change... Maybe gainey could have recognized this and traded him, but the guy was 25, he took a really long time to pan out, he even needed a demotion to hamilton again and then a waiver pickup by columbus and a spot in their lineup.
Granted. This thread is about Hollywood signing a 2 year deal...but that's only because Bob was asleep at the wheel.

Yes he needed a change...which implies that there was something wrong with him being being a part of the CH organization. Something was not working until he got to Columbus. It may be true that Bob's final act was what woke him up but the sad part is that Bob's act didn't benefit CH but another club...who got our first round pick and 7 years of development time and effort that was invested into the young man by CH.

Also, as a last point, a defenseman who is 25 years old is JUST coming into his own. Just as goalies don't usually hit their stride until 27 or 28 years old. Someone managing the greatest hockey team in history should recognize that...and I believe that Bob does...it was just that he happened to be asleep at the wheel when he was bushwhacked by that MacLean!!!

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07-11-2006, 11:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Building a team is all about managing your assets.

You can develop your asset or you can get asset back for your asset.

Bob did neither.
It would have been nice to get something for Hainsey, but he almost no value at that time. No NHL team could have traded for him and called him up without the risk of losing him on waivers. What team is going to give a significant asset to get a guy who has to play with their minor league team for the rest of the year at an NHL salary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
On top of that, had Bob been awake to realize that Columbus had a number of their defensemen go down, including Adam Foote at the time, and were in need of a defenseman to plug their hole like Montreal did at the same time, he wouldn't have tried to recall him at that time.

Rather, Bob would have tried to recall another, lesser prospect to sit on the bench as the 6th or 7th defenseman for a game or two and then send him back down...all of which may have pissed off Hainsey enough to try a little harder...either for next year or to be used as trade bait.
Why keep Hainsey in the minors if you aren't going to try to use him when you need another defencemen? If Hainsey was left in the minors until the end of the year I highly doubt that Gainey would have even qualified him. It would be nice to always get an asset for a player but sometimes a team just has to cut their losses when it becomes clear that a player will not make it with the organization. All Ron Hainsey has proved to this point is that he can play on the sixth-worse team in the league. He would not have made the Habs again this year even if they had kept him around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Bob has made a number of mistakes. To deny it is just unexplainable. The biggest of which being Beauchmin...boy how we could have use a hard nosed, agile defender this past spring in the playoffs...!!!
Letting Beauchemin go was a mistake by Gainey no doubt. He has also made some wise moves like moving very little for Alex Kovalev and turning Marcel Hossa into Garth Murray, a player who can contribute to the team.

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07-11-2006, 11:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Granted. This thread is about Hollywood signing a 2 year deal...but that's only because Bob was asleep at the wheel.

Yes he needed a change...which implies that there was something wrong with him being being a part of the CH organization. Something was not working until he got to Columbus. It may be true that Bob's final act was what woke him up but the sad part is that Bob's act didn't benefit CH but another club...who got our first round pick and 7 years of development time and effort that was invested into the young man by CH.

Also, as a last point, a defenseman who is 25 years old is JUST coming into his own. Just as goalies don't usually hit their stride until 27 or 28 years old. Someone managing the greatest hockey team in history should recognize that...and I believe that Bob does...it was just that he happened to be asleep at the wheel when he was bushwhacked by that MacLean!!!
Hainsey is so good he accepted 1.45 millions over 2 years.

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07-12-2006, 12:10 PM
  #41
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There was no "Hainsey versus Bouillon."

It was Hainsey versus Streit. One was a 24 year old prospect, the other was a 27 year old overager.

Compare Hainsey and Streit's stats, and tell me which is better. THAT'S where Gainey's mistake came, in thinking that Streit would be better player not only in the short term, but in the long run as well. Right now it looks like neither is the case.

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07-12-2006, 12:14 PM
  #42
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Hainsey is still soft, so we didnt loose much ... Beauchemin was a big lost, but hey what u gonna do ? can't always make the right choice !

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07-12-2006, 01:55 PM
  #43
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And this thread is about how Gainey was asleep at the wheel when he should have been doing his home work...
What's that talk about Gainey not doing his homework ?

We needed a D, Gainey recalled from Hamilton the first D on the list. It was Hainsey.

Sure, there was a risk to lose him with that "up" waiver garbage. But it would have been stupid to call #2 first. Then, we would have lost Cote, if Columbus was so desperate to get a D. And you would complain over Gainey not doing his homework and losing Cote.

So what, we play a bunch of NHL games with 5 D ?

It's not like Hainsey could have been traded for something valuable either...

You just doesn't make sense.

That type of thing happens. What was a problem is we were short on D and that stuff made it a mess for a couple hours, but that's it.

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07-12-2006, 02:01 PM
  #44
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Anyway he did Hainsey a favor. If you asked him if he'd rather be 7th D in montreal or play regularly in Columbus you know the answer you'd get.

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07-12-2006, 02:05 PM
  #45
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I always wanted to hang on onto him, kept hope that he would turn things around and reach his potential, probably false hope but wish him the best of luck in Columbus.

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07-12-2006, 02:15 PM
  #46
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If Hainsey was so good, why was he not able to get a spot in our lineup and keep it???

The other 6 D-Man outplay him and he was not able to retain is spot, so we lose him on the waiver, if Gainey would have try to trade him, what would have been the return? Almost nothing, so Gainey took a gamble and try to reenter him trough the waiver but it did not work.

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07-12-2006, 03:02 PM
  #47
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If Hainsey was so good, why was he not able to get a spot in our lineup and keep it???

The other 6 D-Man outplay him and he was not able to retain is spot, so we lose him on the waiver, if Gainey would have try to trade him, what would have been the return? Almost nothing, so Gainey took a gamble and try to reenter him trough the waiver but it did not work.
Why did the Habs keep Pierre Dagenais to start the season?

Sometimes, as is being pointed out, teams make mistakes. I believe they made a mistake with regards to Hainsey. They thought Mark Streit would be better. They were wrong.

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07-12-2006, 03:47 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hainsey go through waivers to go down to Hamiltion in the first place?
If he was that hot of a commodity, wouldn't anyone have picked him up? Who do you expect BG to get in return for Hainsey if no one is interested in picking him up off waivers?

Gainey had to call someone up and Hainsey had to be called up some time. This was his time. Unfortunately, he was snagged by CBJ.

I blame this on the rule. I think having to put a player through waivers to bring him up is ridiculous. It just encourages GMs to let their players rot on the farm team.

Does anyone see the logic in that rule?

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07-12-2006, 08:01 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
You're talking like you know me...which is your first mistake.

I was not one of those who wanted to lynch Gainey over trading Hossa. I was one of those who wanted to lynch Houle for not selecting the other Hossa and then trying to make up for it with the younger Hossa.

And this thread is about how Gainey was asleep at the wheel when he should have been doing his home work...not about recognizing talent. That's another thread altogether.
Wow, you're kinda touchy aren't you. You probably read one line of my post and went off on a rampage. You know what, there's no rules as to what we can or can't talk about on a thread. Just because I want to make a point on something that YOU don't think is related that's my business. Chill out dude, this is an opinion blog, people say things that you don't like every once in a while. And you have to expect to get a little flack when you put a series of negative posts out like that.

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07-12-2006, 08:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej View Post
We gave ice time Bouillon instead of Hainsey , that's why Gainey had to keep him. That's also why the Habs can't rebuild and hit the bottom , there always some sort of quick fix that can do the job better than a prospect and give the team a chance to compete for a playoff spot.

All eyes are on Gainey now , will he go for the quick fix with a guy like Sykora or give ice time to Perezhogin ?
Wrong ! Gainey signed Streit and Dandenault instead of keeping both Hainsey and Beauchemin - two guys we lost for a sweet nothing !

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