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Wii U: Nintendo's Next Generation Console Part 2

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02-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
The Wii U has sold 55k units (tentative) in the month of January.

By contrast, 360 sold 281k units.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513443

Come on Nintendo, get your head out of your butt
Dat supply shortage...

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02-17-2013, 09:29 AM
  #102
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Meh, I'm still going through Skyward Sword and getting all the coins in Mario U...but I definitely do miss my broken 360. It would be tough to have the Wii U as your only console (I'm waiting for the 720) but it would be even tougher to not play all of the Nintendo classics that I've grown up with since the NES. Things will pick up, the 360 also sucked in the beginning. I remember playing Perfect Dark and King Kong.

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02-17-2013, 01:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Bizarro Bandwagoner View Post
Meh, I'm still going through Skyward Sword and getting all the coins in Mario U...but I definitely do miss my broken 360. It would be tough to have the Wii U as your only console (I'm waiting for the 720) but it would be even tougher to not play all of the Nintendo classics that I've grown up with since the NES. Things will pick up, the 360 also sucked in the beginning. I remember playing Perfect Dark and King Kong.
I'm interested to see if the silly rumours about the 720 having a built in Kinect and requiring mandatory internet connection are true...

Worried about this gen of consoles...

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02-17-2013, 01:33 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
I'm interested to see if the silly rumours about the 720 having a built in Kinect and requiring mandatory internet connection are true...

Worried about this gen of consoles...
Yeah with all the rumors going around I think I might just stick with my pc.

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02-17-2013, 02:07 PM
  #105
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The WiiU is overpriced at $300 and $350. If it was Sony, they would have priced it at $200 at launch. They take massive losses to get the product to the consumer cheap while Nintendo swims in profits at the same time, price gouging developers with excessive licensing fees which is where they make a lot of their profits. Why do developers skip out on WiiU ports? Because they can't profit on it.

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02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #106
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The WiiU is overpriced at $300 and $350. If it was Sony, they would have priced it at $200 at launch. They take massive losses to get the product to the consumer cheap while Nintendo swims in profits at the same time, price gouging developers with excessive licensing fees which is where they make a lot of their profits. Why do developers skip out on WiiU ports? Because they can't profit on it.
Sony makes money on their hardware, has for awhile now.

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02-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  #107
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Sony makes money on their hardware, has for awhile now.
[Mod] They sell at a loss at launch. In fact its common Japanese business practice to do so if you can make the profit back. Nintendo can sell at a loss and make it back through liscensing and accessories, yet they continue to overcharge on their systems and their liscensings rates to developers are significantly higher than Sonys or Microsoft. Why else do small developers like NISA and Falcom flock to Sony?

Sony's running total in their gaming division is a negative 6 billion, Microsofts is a negative 8 billion. Yet people bash these companies saying their products are overpriced and that MS is trying to steal from their bank account because they charge for online. These aren't the companies trying to overcharge, it's Nintendo.

The PS3 sold for $600, expensive right? In comparison a stand alone Samsung BlueRay player sold for over $1000. The PS3 cost Sony $850 on the hardware and an estimated $70 other other expenses
850+70=$920. Then the store cut will usually be half so 600-300 = $300. The PS3 sold for $600 yet Sony was willing to take around a $620 loss yet the PS3 is still overpriced by many consumers.

If you ask most Japanese, Nintendo is one of the least respected there is because of how underhanded they are and the horrible things they did in the 80's and 90's to developers.


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02-17-2013, 06:35 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
They sell at a loss at launch. In fact its common Japanese business practice to do so if you can make the profit back. Nintendo can sell at a loss and make it back through liscensing and accessories, yet they continue to overcharge on their systems and their liscensings rates to developers are significantly higher than Sonys or Microsoft. Why else do small developers like NISA and Falcom flock to Sony?

Sony's running total in their gaming division is a negative 6 billion, Microsofts is a negative 8 billion. Yet people bash these companies saying their products are overpriced and that MS is trying to steal from their bank account because they charge for online. These aren't the companies trying to overcharge, it's Nintendo.

The PS3 sold for $600, expensive right? In comparison a stand alone Samsung BlueRay player sold for over $1000. The PS3 cost Sony $850 on the hardware and an estimated $70 other other expenses
850+70=$920. Then the store cut will usually be half so 600-300 = $300. The PS3 sold for $600 yet Sony was willing to take around a $620 loss yet the PS3 is still overpriced by many consumers.

If you ask most Japanese, Nintendo is one of the least respected there is because of how underhanded they are and the horrible things they did in the 80's and 90's to developers.
But see, the problem with your whole theory is that Nintendo is ALREADY losing money on consoles, and you are asking them to lose an even bigger chunk. But that's the entire problem with the Wii U, the Ps3 and 360 are about to price drop cause of the new consoles and Nintendo will have to price drop to keep up, causing them to lose even more money.

Nintendo's problem is an appalling lack of foresight. They should have waited for the PS4 and 720 to come out and then came out with a new console, or brought out the Wii U 2-4 years ago. They waited far, far too long to enter the HD era and isolated their core at the same time, which is why they are suffering such a major backlash.

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02-18-2013, 12:47 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
But see, the problem with your whole theory is that Nintendo is ALREADY losing money on consoles, and you are asking them to lose an even bigger chunk. But that's the entire problem with the Wii U, the Ps3 and 360 are about to price drop cause of the new consoles and Nintendo will have to price drop to keep up, causing them to lose even more money.

Nintendo's problem is an appalling lack of foresight. They should have waited for the PS4 and 720 to come out and then came out with a new console, or brought out the Wii U 2-4 years ago. They waited far, far too long to enter the HD era and isolated their core at the same time, which is why they are suffering such a major backlash.
Also incredibly stupid to try to target the "hardcore" market by trying to get out similar technology to the last gen competition a year before new tech (hopefully) comes out.

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02-18-2013, 06:00 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Also incredibly stupid to try to target the "hardcore" market by trying to get out similar technology to the last gen competition a year before new tech (hopefully) comes out.
So they're already selling at a loss with the Wii U as it is now and you want them to bump the specs more and sell at an even bigger loss?

People get to hung up on specs. The sales winner of each console generation is rarely (if ever) the system with the best specs.

It's the games that matter.

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02-18-2013, 09:04 AM
  #111
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So they're already selling at a loss with the Wii U as it is now and you want them to bump the specs more and sell at an even bigger loss?

People get to hung up on specs. The sales winner of each console generation is rarely (if ever) the system with the best specs.

It's the games that matter.
And the devs are trying to move on and develop for the next systems @ higher specs...

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02-18-2013, 09:21 AM
  #112
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And the devs are trying to move on and develop for the next systems @ higher specs...
Not to mention if you compare the Wii U to the PS3 and 360 in amount of games, its not even close. And that's the problem, comparing both quantity AND quality, the Wii U isn't even in the same stratosphere to consoles that have been out for 8 years.

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02-18-2013, 09:46 AM
  #113
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And the devs are trying to move on and develop for the next systems @ higher specs...
That doesn't mean games developed for sony & MS next system won't also be ported to the U, though. Right now, games that have been in development for quite awhile for the current gen aren't being ported - I'm guessing there's too much work involved and devs figure that by the time ports could be done, folks who want the games would likely already have them on one of the other two systems. And the releases for these titles can't be delayed, because the next systems would then be out and likely kill the sales anyway. It would be great if some of these games would be ported, but I think it's more likely that whatever cross-party titles come out for next gen will be ported instead.

What Nintendo needed to do was have more of their own titles lined up to come in during January, February, and March to help differentiate it from the Wii and bridge the gap to E3 announcements. Instead, these months are deader than Dillinger.

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02-18-2013, 09:57 AM
  #114
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That doesn't mean games developed for sony & MS next system won't also be ported to the U, though. Right now, games that have been in development for quite awhile for the current gen aren't being ported - I'm guessing there's too much work involved and devs figure that by the time ports could be done, folks who want the games would likely already have them on one of the other two systems. And the releases for these titles can't be delayed, because the next systems would then be out and likely kill the sales anyway. It would be great if some of these games would be ported, but I think it's more likely that whatever cross-party titles come out for next gen will be ported instead.

What Nintendo needed to do was have more of their own titles lined up to come in during January, February, and March to help differentiate it from the Wii and bridge the gap to E3 announcements. Instead, these months are deader than Dillinger.
I'm not entirely sure if we will see a lot of downports. Our best indication of this would be this gen, and while the Wii did get quite a few ports at first, particularly in genres like music games and such, developers did eventually give up because their games were not selling.

Will this happen again? Not sure but it definitely could.

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02-18-2013, 10:00 AM
  #115
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That doesn't mean games developed for sony & MS next system won't also be ported to the U, though. Right now, games that have been in development for quite awhile for the current gen aren't being ported - I'm guessing there's too much work involved and devs figure that by the time ports could be done, folks who want the games would likely already have them on one of the other two systems. And the releases for these titles can't be delayed, because the next systems would then be out and likely kill the sales anyway. It would be great if some of these games would be ported, but I think it's more likely that whatever cross-party titles come out for next gen will be ported instead.

What Nintendo needed to do was have more of their own titles lined up to come in during January, February, and March to help differentiate it from the Wii and bridge the gap to E3 announcements. Instead, these months are deader than Dillinger.
Maybe, maybe not.

That is why some of the recent developer talks of a 3rd party, top game, selling way under expectations on the Wii U is concerning.

There's this odd year gap in between where Nintendo should be stealing users before the next gen... but they kinda aren't.

Of course they have their own dedicated fans for the various Nintendo game series' but 3rd party games seem to be having a tough time.

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02-18-2013, 12:51 PM
  #116
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And the devs are trying to move on and develop for the next systems @ higher specs...
And most of the next generation game engines are scalable. If they can scale games to run on an iPhone they can scale them to run on the Wii U.

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02-18-2013, 01:54 PM
  #117
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And most of the next generation game engines are scalable. If they can scale games to run on an iPhone they can scale them to run on the Wii U.
Of course, but if its not going to sell (because the visuals are so much worse or just because a Wii effect is happening again) why would they?

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02-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
I'm not entirely sure if we will see a lot of downports. Our best indication of this would be this gen, and while the Wii did get quite a few ports at first, particularly in genres like music games and such, developers did eventually give up because their games were not selling.

Will this happen again? Not sure but it definitely could.
I think it depends how easily games can be ported. The wii was so graphically inferior, that ports seemed more like building entirely new games, and even then they were typically a shadow of what was on the other two consoles. I don't think weak sales of inferior ports should have been surprising.

However, I think developers may have overstated the inability to sell titles on the Wii. I don't recall ports selling very well, unless it was Tiger Woods, but good games didn't sell badly. I look at Lollipop Chainsaw and see it sold 430K and 340K on PS3 and 360. At the same time, they sold 520K copies of No More Heroes on the Wii, and 360K copies of No More Heroes 2.

Madworld, a title that I don't remember getting pushed much, sold 700K copies.

Even Dead Space Extraction did decently on the Wii, selling 430K copies - though, admittedly, that lags behind Dead Space 1&2 on either of the other platforms.

So, with the ports, I think it's entirely about how easily they can do it. If they don't have to jump through hoops to do it, I think we'll see it just because there are sales to be made. But if it's really time/work intensive, they won't bother. However, quality titles could sell well.

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Maybe, maybe not.

That is why some of the recent developer talks of a 3rd party, top game, selling way under expectations on the Wii U is concerning.

There's this odd year gap in between where Nintendo should be stealing users before the next gen... but they kinda aren't.

Of course they have their own dedicated fans for the various Nintendo game series' but 3rd party games seem to be having a tough time.
I still think that 3rd party had crazy expectations for a game at this point in the U's life. I'm going out on a limb and guessing that most early adopters also had at least one of of the 360 or PS3. And given that such a person will have already invested in one of those systems, and that the game was likely to be better on one of them, they were not going to buy it on the U. It would have been stupid to when they could grab something like Nintendoland or NSMBU - something they couldn't get elsewhere. It's the same reason I think sales of things like Batman AC, Mass Effect 3, and Darksiders 2 never took off on the U - a lot of the people buying the U already have them.

I think the game you have to look at is ZombiU. It got killed in early reviews, but it's still the best selling 3rd party game on the system with 350K sales. That's not a great number (obviously), but it's not a bad number - especially considering its early reviews that had to dampen enthusiasm for it.

What Nintendo desperately needed was to have another big title or two of their own to really push the system early, and I think that's where they've screwed up bad not having Pikmin 3 and whatever else ready for the beginning of this year. They needed games right now that weren't going to be anywhere else, just to maintain enthusiasm and give people a reason to buy the system, and then buy something like ZombiU (or Lego City Undercover, or Wonderful 101, etc.) to go with it.

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02-18-2013, 06:58 PM
  #119
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Of course, but if its not going to sell (because the visuals are so much worse or just because a Wii effect is happening again) why would they?
Because it's an easy port with the new game engines, they have very little to lose and profit to gain.

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02-19-2013, 12:11 AM
  #120
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Because it's an easy port with the new game engines, they have very little to lose and profit to gain.
But as Wingman stated just above:
Quote:
I'm going out on a limb and guessing that most early adopters also had at least one of of the 360 or PS3. And given that such a person will have already invested in one of those systems, and that the game was likely to be better on one of them, they were not going to buy it on the U. It would have been stupid to when they could grab something like Nintendoland or NSMBU - something they couldn't get elsewhere. It's the same reason I think sales of things like Batman AC, Mass Effect 3, and Darksiders 2 never took off on the U - a lot of the people buying the U already have them.
I completely agree... however what is the incentive for a developer, right now, to develop for the Wii U as a 3rd party if there is such a big overlap?

Say i'm developing a game and started 6 months ago on a 12 - 15 month timeline. I am building for the 360 and the PS3 but can delay for the 720 and the PS4, possibly. I can also develop for the Wii U... but, as stated, the time required to port could be put into other areas of development and it's incredibly likely that the same people who would buy my game already have the 360 or the PS3.

That's what I would see as a developer, that the Wii U doesn't represent a large amount of new customers just an overlap with the existing generation owners.

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02-19-2013, 05:53 AM
  #121
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I think it depends how easily games can be ported. The wii was so graphically inferior, that ports seemed more like building entirely new games, and even then they were typically a shadow of what was on the other two consoles. I don't think weak sales of inferior ports should have been surprising.

However, I think developers may have overstated the inability to sell titles on the Wii. I don't recall ports selling very well, unless it was Tiger Woods, but good games didn't sell badly. I look at Lollipop Chainsaw and see it sold 430K and 340K on PS3 and 360. At the same time, they sold 520K copies of No More Heroes on the Wii, and 360K copies of No More Heroes 2.

Madworld, a title that I don't remember getting pushed much, sold 700K copies.

Even Dead Space Extraction did decently on the Wii, selling 430K copies - though, admittedly, that lags behind Dead Space 1&2 on either of the other platforms.

So, with the ports, I think it's entirely about how easily they can do it. If they don't have to jump through hoops to do it, I think we'll see it just because there are sales to be made. But if it's really time/work intensive, they won't bother. However, quality titles could sell well.



I still think that 3rd party had crazy expectations for a game at this point in the U's life. I'm going out on a limb and guessing that most early adopters also had at least one of of the 360 or PS3. And given that such a person will have already invested in one of those systems, and that the game was likely to be better on one of them, they were not going to buy it on the U. It would have been stupid to when they could grab something like Nintendoland or NSMBU - something they couldn't get elsewhere. It's the same reason I think sales of things like Batman AC, Mass Effect 3, and Darksiders 2 never took off on the U - a lot of the people buying the U already have them.

I think the game you have to look at is ZombiU. It got killed in early reviews, but it's still the best selling 3rd party game on the system with 350K sales. That's not a great number (obviously), but it's not a bad number - especially considering its early reviews that had to dampen enthusiasm for it.

What Nintendo desperately needed was to have another big title or two of their own to really push the system early, and I think that's where they've screwed up bad not having Pikmin 3 and whatever else ready for the beginning of this year. They needed games right now that weren't going to be anywhere else, just to maintain enthusiasm and give people a reason to buy the system, and then buy something like ZombiU (or Lego City Undercover, or Wonderful 101, etc.) to go with it.
I remember Nintendo saying that they wanted to avoid the mistakes that they made with the lack of games after the 3DS launch. Nintendo had Wii U games scheduled to launch during this time period but unfortunately they've all been delayed.

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02-19-2013, 05:57 AM
  #122
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But as Wingman stated just above:


I completely agree... however what is the incentive for a developer, right now, to develop for the Wii U as a 3rd party if there is such a big overlap?

Say i'm developing a game and started 6 months ago on a 12 - 15 month timeline. I am building for the 360 and the PS3 but can delay for the 720 and the PS4, possibly. I can also develop for the Wii U... but, as stated, the time required to port could be put into other areas of development and it's incredibly likely that the same people who would buy my game already have the 360 or the PS3.

That's what I would see as a developer, that the Wii U doesn't represent a large amount of new customers just an overlap with the existing generation owners.
Because there's a big difference between porting games that are already out on other systems and games that aren't out on any system.

Why would I buy another copy of a game that I already own?

However if I'm given the choice of buying a new game on the Wii U or the PS3 then I'll buy the Wii U version.

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02-19-2013, 09:07 AM
  #123
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I remember Nintendo saying that they wanted to avoid the mistakes that they made with the lack of games after the 3DS launch. Nintendo had Wii U games scheduled to launch during this time period but unfortunately they've all been delayed.
Yeah, I think Pikmin was supposed to be out around launch, then got pushed back to "launch window" and has been pushed back again. The Lego City may have been backed up once. this is part of what gets me, though. They knew this was a problem from the 3DS launch, and the last year of the wii was just a wasted year with few titles coming out. they should have had something more in the pipeline, but they just dropped the ball on it.

I'm a fan of Nintendo, I liked the Wii (and loved the mote/nunchuck control scheme - I don't think it gets nearly the love it deserves), and I like the U. They have to up their game, though. I'm hoping they bring something big to E3.

This has no basis in reality, any sort of rumor or anything,but I'd love to see an open world Professor Layton game. The U seems like a perfect fit for it, it'd have a built in audience from the handhelds, and I just enjoy what I've played of the series. I can't get my kid into it, though.

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02-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #124
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Because there's a big difference between porting games that are already out on other systems and games that aren't out on any system.

Why would I buy another copy of a game that I already own?

However if I'm given the choice of buying a new game on the Wii U or the PS3 then I'll buy the Wii U version.
While this is legitimate there are two things to counter what you said:

1) Why waste development money on the Wii U version since you have to program special code and resources for the game pad and such

2) Your average gamer doesn't own a Wii U but does own one of the other two. While the option for people like you is Wii U vs PS3 version, for others it's PS3 version vs having to buy a Wii U and the game too. Completely different investment. Never mind that the Wii U tends to have inferior ports to begin with (if it had superior ports, people would buy the console to play them) and you can see how niche the Wii U market is.

If the PS4 price is announced at 399 and the PS3 and 360 are dropped below 200 bucks before Nintendo can drive down production costs, they are completely screwed.

Nintendo's chance to announce stuff is before the 20th of this month, after that they will lose sole focus of "new shiny object" and have to begin competing with 6 consoles in the market, not four. They basically missed their chance to have the entire market to themself as the new kid on the block and I don't know how they blew it so badly.

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02-19-2013, 09:31 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Yeah, I think Pikmin was supposed to be out around launch, then got pushed back to "launch window" and has been pushed back again. The Lego City may have been backed up once. this is part of what gets me, though. They knew this was a problem from the 3DS launch, and the last year of the wii was just a wasted year with few titles coming out. they should have had something more in the pipeline, but they just dropped the ball on it.

I'm a fan of Nintendo, I liked the Wii (and loved the mote/nunchuck control scheme - I don't think it gets nearly the love it deserves), and I like the U. They have to up their game, though. I'm hoping they bring something big to E3.

This has no basis in reality, any sort of rumor or anything,but I'd love to see an open world Professor Layton game. The U seems like a perfect fit for it, it'd have a built in audience from the handhelds, and I just enjoy what I've played of the series. I can't get my kid into it, though.
I think that The Wonderful 101 was supposed to be available too, but it also got delayed. Nintendo definitely dropped the ball.

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