HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jake Gardiner

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2013, 01:59 PM
  #76
Marco Esquandolas
Registered Abuser
 
Marco Esquandolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,556
vCash: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
D'agostini is a quality player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Elliott had one good year and Gardiner had one good year. And Elliott's year was way more stellar than the one of Gardiner. So where is the problem? And you also get Schmaltz (recent 1st rnd pick) and a great 3rd liner in D'Agostino.
Leafs fans
It's not about value, it's that the Leafs have absolutely no need for a player like D'Agostini, nor for another question mark in net, nor another defensive prospect.


Last edited by Marco Esquandolas: 02-18-2013 at 02:05 PM.
Marco Esquandolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:01 PM
  #77
Alflives
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Gardiner would be playing in the NHL but you know, Mike Kostka took his spot and minutes and is never giving them back
That's because Kastka plays with an 'edge' that Gardiner refuses to.

Alflives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:03 PM
  #78
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,540
vCash: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
It's not about value, it's that the Leafs have absolutely no need for a player like D'Agostini, nor for another question mark in net.
So need wise it does not work, but in terms of value, it is pretty fair.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:08 PM
  #79
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Elliott had one good year and Gardiner had one good year. And Elliott's year was way more stellar than the one of Gardiner. So where is the problem? And you also get Schmaltz (recent 1st rnd pick) and a great 3rd liner in D'Agostino.
Leafs fans
Gardiner is a 22 year old offensive D while Elliot is a 27 year old goaltender on his third team. If we were talking about Gardiner being 26, you wouldnt have a problem in logic. Schmaltz would simply be a step backwards, with more development to wait for, and really, D'Agostini is a scratch these days. Sure, he can play in the bottom six, but that's what he is.

So logically, where in the world is the sense in Toronto making anywhere near this type of a deal? Taking two problems and a prospect for a legitimate top 4 prospect who's still on his entry level is just ridiculous.

Petes2424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:16 PM
  #80
stlblues9
Registered User
 
stlblues9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,658
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Gardiner is a 22 year old offensive D while Elliot is a 27 year old goaltender on his third team. If we were talking about Gardiner being 26, you wouldnt have a problem in logic. Schmaltz would simply be a step backwards, with more development to wait for, and really, D'Agostini is a scratch these days. Sure, he can play in the bottom six, but that's what he is.

So logically, where in the world is the sense in Toronto making anywhere near this type of a deal? Taking two problems and a prospect for a legitimate top 4 prospect who's still on his entry level is just ridiculous.
You're really underrating D'agostini here. He's a sniper and is probably best suited on the second line, but the fact is St. Louis is just loaded with depth on the wing. He's not a scratch on Toronto. He scored 20 goals on a defensive Blues team. He could do well elsewhere. MacArthur might even be a scratch on St. Louis.

stlblues9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:19 PM
  #81
Alflives
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Gardiner is a 22 year old offensive D while Elliot is a 27 year old goaltender on his third team. If we were talking about Gardiner being 26, you wouldnt have a problem in logic. Schmaltz would simply be a step backwards, with more development to wait for, and really, D'Agostini is a scratch these days. Sure, he can play in the bottom six, but that's what he is.

So logically, where in the world is the sense in Toronto making anywhere near this type of a deal? Taking two problems and a prospect for a legitimate top 4 prospect who's still on his entry level is just ridiculous.
We need to remember that Gardiner took the route of playing US college hockey instead of the more physical, and NHL realistic CHL. He missed out on the style of play that makes for top end defense-men. Look at Schultz in Edmonton. He has good offensive numbers, but is a horror show on the defensive side of the puck. The Oilers are a developing team, and not so pressured into making the playoffs, so they are okay with those defensive issues, and will let Schultz learn on the big team. The Leafs are a playoff (and maybe Cup) contending team. They can't afford to let Gardiner 'learn on the job'.

Alflives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:19 PM
  #82
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 24,221
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Is Gardiner a Carlyle type of player? Carlyle like his D to play physically, and Gardiner does not play that way.
Gardiner is exactly the type of player Carlyle would want. Niedermayer, Visnovsky, Fowler... Carlyle knows what kind of impact a skilled puck mover can have. Sure, Carlyle will want him to even out his game, and become a more complete player, but RC knows how to use a PMD like that.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:22 PM
  #83
Zonk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 181
vCash: 500
It is very difficult to project the value of a young defenseman at the best of times.

To complicate matters further, Gardiner is returning from a concussion. Anyone who has been following hockey must know that even after a player is medically cleared to play, he often underperforms for months.

Sam Pollock, (who has his name on the Stanley Cup 12 times), said that a GM will not always be sure what he will be getting back in a trade, but he had better be certain that he knows what he is trading away.

No player is untouchable, but the chances of the Leafs trading Gardiner at this point in his development are slim to none.

Zonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:47 PM
  #84
topchowda
Registered User
 
topchowda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,956
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
We need to remember that Gardiner took the route of playing US college hockey instead of the more physical, and NHL realistic CHL. He missed out on the style of play that makes for top end defense-men. Look at Schultz in Edmonton. He has good offensive numbers, but is a horror show on the defensive side of the puck. The Oilers are a developing team, and not so pressured into making the playoffs, so they are okay with those defensive issues, and will let Schultz learn on the big team. The Leafs are a playoff (and maybe Cup) contending team. They can't afford to let Gardiner 'learn on the job'.
Schultz is actaully amazing in his own end, so calm its impressive

topchowda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:54 PM
  #85
FlowNoMo
GO MARLIES!!!
 
FlowNoMo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Are you comparing Gardiner to Neidermayer and Fowler? Those are two players who were (are in Fowler's case) very effective without needing to be overly physical. Gardiner is not a physical player, and has yet to prove to Carlyle that he can be effective on skill alone. Consequently, he is in the AHL. He will certainly get another chance, but if he again is not able to be trusted with ice-time, he will be demoted again, or traded.
Gardiner proved to be effective on skill alone all of last year, and specifically when Carlyle came in.

He was out for a month with a concussion, came back a few games into the NHL regular season after DOMINATING the AHL, and just didn't look right. He's been in the AHL to get him back up to speed, and is slowly coming back. Had a great game today for the Marlies. He is not in the AHL because he is bad or not good enough or being shunned by Carlyle. He is in the AHL because he is coming off of an injury, combined with the NHL team doing well without him, and waiver implications.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Being asked a lot about Jake Gardiner. One of considerations is if he plays three more NHL games, he becomes eligible for waivers.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Basically once they bring Gardiner back, he's staying. This stretch of games with the Marlies will be his last as they'll never waive him.


Last edited by FlowNoMo: 02-18-2013 at 03:01 PM.
FlowNoMo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:59 PM
  #86
Andre Benoit Bawls
What, Me Worry?
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 50
I'd do Michalek I think.

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:00 PM
  #87
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dangley One View Post
Not as much a leaf fans think.

But really there isn't any way to value potential
Yea there is. Take a look at all the contracts being given out based on potential.

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:04 PM
  #88
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
You're really underrating D'agostini here. He's a sniper and is probably best suited on the second line, but the fact is St. Louis is just loaded with depth on the wing. He's not a scratch on Toronto. He scored 20 goals on a defensive Blues team. He could do well elsewhere. MacArthur might even be a scratch on St. Louis.
I think we're closer than you think about D'Agostini. The fact is, he's a bottom six guy. To be fair, his 20 goal season was under Payne, not Hitchcock's system. Can he play top 6 minutes in a pinch? Sure but that's who he is. He has no real value right now being scratched the way he's been.

Petes2424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:10 PM
  #89
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowzie View Post

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Being asked a lot about Jake Gardiner. One of considerations is if he plays three more NHL games, he becomes eligible for waivers.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Basically once they bring Gardiner back, he's staying. This stretch of games with the Marlies will be his last as they'll never waive him.
Not to mention the guys currently playing with the roster, Fraser and Kostka, are no longer waiver exempt. They've both been playing really well so we're guaranteed to lose them for nothing, like we lost Aucoin to the Islanders, if we demote them. I suspect the Leafs will trade a d-man before bringing Gardiner back up, and then he'll be up for good, but there is no reason to rush him back at the moment. Likely casualties are Liles or Gunnarsson (imo)

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:13 PM
  #90
iPunch
Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,983
vCash: 133
In other words, if Gardiner is traded for anything other than scratches, backup goalies and bottom line forwards, a fanbase is going to be mad.

That's HFboards.

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:16 PM
  #91
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
We need to remember that Gardiner took the route of playing US college hockey instead of the more physical, and NHL realistic CHL. He missed out on the style of play that makes for top end defense-men. Look at Schultz in Edmonton. He has good offensive numbers, but is a horror show on the defensive side of the puck. The Oilers are a developing team, and not so pressured into making the playoffs, so they are okay with those defensive issues, and will let Schultz learn on the big team. The Leafs are a playoff (and maybe Cup) contending team. They can't afford to let Gardiner 'learn on the job'.
Not really relevant anymore. The US College system has come full fold the last ten years. In fact, in comparison who's the most effective OHL guys these days? Hamilton, Sproul, etc. The WHL is still pretty rough compared to, but the college system is not inferior as it used to be. Especially guys coming out of Wisconsin recently. Eaves is a great coach and the talent level is legitimate. The list is becoming endless of college D guys playing in the NHL now. It's why your seeing CHL teams offering educational packages to players over the last few years. They're losing top talent to the college ranks.

Petes2424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:20 PM
  #92
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
That was not his point at all.


I'm sorry you could not understand it.
Lol that you couldn't figure out what my point was.

You're arguing that Brian Elliot deserves the same benefit of the doubt that Kessel does. Meanwhile one is maybe the worst player in hockey right now while the other is still his teams leading scorer despite not scoring.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 04:33 PM
  #93
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Lol that you couldn't figure out what my point was.

You're arguing that Brian Elliot deserves the same benefit of the doubt that Kessel does. Meanwhile one is maybe the worst player in hockey right now while the other is still his teams leading scorer despite not scoring.
His argument makes no sense. Kessel has consistently been a top goal producer, Eliiot has been hot garbage besides one year in which he played on one of the best teams in the league with one of the best defensive systems in place.

You don't even have to whip out your thinking cap for this one.

7even is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 05:07 PM
  #94
Avec Fromage*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
He has a good point. You cannot simply look at this year to evaluate a player. You have to look at previous years as well. Leaf fans simply seem to be looking at Elliot's performance this year, while entirely ignoring last year.


What stlblues9 did is do the same thing for Kessel/Stewart. Ignore last year, look at this year. Look how ridiculous it looks. That is what Leaf fans look like doing that for Elliot.
Phil Kessel's last four seasons:
36 goals
30 goals
32 goals
37 goals

Brian Elliott's last four seasons:
.909
.894
.891
.940

One of these is not like the other. Do you really think Elliott will put up numbers even remotely close to those of last year or are you just trolling? Seems like the latter.

Avec Fromage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 05:16 PM
  #95
Avec Fromage*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
So need wise it does not work, but in terms of value, it is pretty fair.
No, it's not.

Value wise, it's: a career mediocre backup who had one elite season playing behind a strong defensive team and a third liner who is a healthy scratch for a blue-chip defensive prospect that lead rookie D-scoring last year, only playing in the minors because of a log-jam at defense and, previously, a concussion (which he has already recovered from).

Elliott would not displace Reimer or Scrivens.

D'Agostini would not displace Kessel, Lupul, JvR, Frattin, Kulemin, Komarov or MacArthur.

And if the Leafs wouldn't trade Gardiner for Luongo, they won't be trading him for a bunch of mediocre players.

/thread.

Avec Fromage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 05:18 PM
  #96
KesselLooksLikeRadar*
The People's Champ
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
He has a good point. You cannot simply look at this year to evaluate a player. You have to look at previous years as well. Leaf fans simply seem to be looking at Elliot's performance this year, while entirely ignoring last year.


What stlblues9 did is do the same thing for Kessel/Stewart. Ignore last year, look at this year. Look how ridiculous it looks. That is what Leaf fans look like doing that for Elliot.


I don't have to tell you how spectacularly off base you are, right?

KesselLooksLikeRadar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 05:52 PM
  #97
Badger Mayhew
Registered User
 
Badger Mayhew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,630
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Elliott had one good year and Gardiner had one good year. And Elliott's year was way more stellar than the one of Gardiner. So where is the problem? And you also get Schmaltz (recent 1st rnd pick) and a great 3rd liner in D'Agostino.
Leafs fans
Leafs would rather have Gardiner. We don't need a questionable backup goalie, already have half a dozen quality defensive prospects and don't have any room on our third line for D'Agostino.

Avs fans

Badger Mayhew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 06:47 PM
  #98
1972
Registered User
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Absolutely brutal.

Just terrible.

Garbage + garbage + garbage.
ya because Schmaltz is garbage

I agree it makes no sense for the Leafs, but this is a "value of" thread

1972 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:41 PM
  #99
Avec Fromage*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
ya because Schmaltz is garbage

I agree it makes no sense for the Leafs, but this is a "value of" thread
Schmaltz is a B-prospect who was just drafted and at least a few years away. The other two have very little value.

Avec Fromage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.