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Old
02-18-2013, 12:34 PM
  #126
Nsjohnson
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Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
Are you f-in kidding me?

The first line has been lackluster to say the least, they get most of their points on PP, but other than that they have been quite bad. Even last game, the firstline goal was good work by Pärisee and Koivu, but Heatley more or less faned on a shot which luckely found its way into the goal.

2nd line looked great? One good rush due to the Red Wings defence ******** the bed. Zucker looked like he had alot of speed and jump, but other than his awesome goal I saw nothing to proclaime that 2nd line to be anything other than "decent".

Larsson looekd great? What game were you watching? He did more or less nothing the whole game.

Look, I do not mind them on the team, but if you want to make a case for them over Granlund on the 2nd and 3rd line, you should have an argument more grounded in reality.
I think you were watching that local high school game, not the Wild game bc all of this is so wrong IMO. You really need to watch more closely, specially Larsson's play. You are the only one on these boards that didn't think he had a good game without getting on the scoresheet.

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02-18-2013, 12:51 PM
  #127
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You're putting an awful lot of stock on a single game. I think it's way too early to tell if the 2nd/3rd lines used last night should stick or not. I don't think they'll stick, because PMB will most likely be able to play again on Thursday and I don't see them leaving him in the press box. Like I've already said multiple times, if there's no use for Granlund in the top lines, send him down for both his own and for the team's sake. The difference between you and me here is that I'm not nearly as convinced as you are that those lines should stick.
But isn't that the trick question?

Reason why Granlund is on the 4th line is because Yeo was experimenting with Zucker and Larsson, which seemed to pay off.

So it is only logical to stick with the winning formula, correct? But we won't know if its actually a winning formula, or just, as you say, a single game.

Its an audition period, but when does an audition become fulltime? 2, 3 more games? And what if the Wild win all those games with Zucker and Larsson pushing out Granlund?

My point is, this team has struggled this season, and finally against the Red Wings, we looked like we had some life. I say, try it out again, See if it works. If it doesn't reshuffle the lines and trying to find a winning combination, maybe Granlund with Parise-Koivu. But if the winning lineup means Granlund has to be on the 4th line, I say send him down.

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02-18-2013, 01:10 PM
  #128
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Granlund needs more time in the minors. He's being rushed a bit and I think it's a mistake.

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02-18-2013, 01:31 PM
  #129
Henri M
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Okay...so if everyone on the first line is lackluster
Zucker is nothing special
Larsson did nothing
I'm guessing your not a fan on Cullen or Setoguchi either...

Now who the hell plays with Granlund now?
I did not say that. I said the firstline has been lackluster, not that everyone on it is.

Neither did I say Zucker is nothing special, but I said his performance was good, but outside his goal I did not see anything that great.

Yes, Larsson did nothing, more or less.

I would love to see Granlund on the firstline, I do not think he would be a bigger defensive liability than Heatley based on his game.

There seems to be a huge amount of bi-polarisme on these boards; we lose everyone is screaming bloody murder (not litteraly everyone), and when we win then we should "not change what works".
Last nights game did IMO not work. Did no one notice that the Wild sucked for atleast half of the game?

Had it not been for the Red Wings having a major collapse, and Mrazek not being able to cover his five hole, we would not have won, maybe not even gotten one single goal.

I'm not saying that every aspect of the last game was bad, but it had enough of the bad and the ugly to warrent changes.

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02-18-2013, 01:33 PM
  #130
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Have to laugh at saying Larsson did nothing. At least, from the X, he was very noticeable on the ice; in a very good way.

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02-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by PariseSuterKoivu View Post
Granlund needs more time in the minors. He's being rushed a bit and I think it's a mistake.
From my point of view, Granlund has already spent too much time outside the NHL. I agree he should have been introduced slowly, preferably last season, but everyone forgot he was not and so instead they threw him right in this season with 2nd line C responsability and great expectations. I think that what he needs is a bit of patience and confidence from Yeo to build some self-confidence and he'll settle in fine.

There are just so many examples of great players who didn't produce at all for a lot of games in their rookie season.


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02-18-2013, 02:03 PM
  #132
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From my point of view, Granlund has already spent too much time outside the NHL. I agree he should have been introduced slowly, preferably last season, but everyone forgot he was not and so instead they threw him right in this season with 2nd line C responsability and great expectations. I think that what he needs is a bit of patience and confidence from Yeo to build some self-confidence and he'll settle in fine.

There are just so many examples of great players who didn't produce at all for a lot of games in their rookie season.
Exactly. If you move him to the AHL, he will dominate and may re-learn bad habits that work against lesser competition. The NHL is really the only place he will learn.

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02-18-2013, 02:06 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Granlund should be in Houston right now. If it's a situation that we can't find room for him in the lineup and he's on the fourth line...he should be getting 20+ minutes down in Houston.
No, he should be centering the 2nd line and Cullen centering the 3rd line, Brodziak needs to play wing.

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02-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
I did not say that. I said the firstline has been lackluster, not that everyone on it is.

Neither did I say Zucker is nothing special, but I said his performance was good, but outside his goal I did not see anything that great.

Yes, Larsson did nothing, more or less.

I would love to see Granlund on the firstline, I do not think he would be a bigger defensive liability than Heatley based on his game.

There seems to be a huge amount of bi-polarisme on these boards; we lose everyone is screaming bloody murder (not litteraly everyone), and when we win then we should "not change what works".
Last nights game did IMO not work. Did no one notice that the Wild sucked for atleast half of the game?

Had it not been for the Red Wings having a major collapse, and Mrazek not being able to cover his five hole, we would not have won, maybe not even gotten one single goal.

I'm not saying that every aspect of the last game was bad, but it had enough of the bad and the ugly to warrent changes.
Larsson did so much nothing that Yeo put him out there in the final 2 minutes to protect a lead.

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02-18-2013, 02:38 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by RxDangles19 View Post
Faceoffs? He just won about 80% of his draws the previous game so that's ludicrous. He needs good players around him that can anticipate and finish amazing passes, not fourth liners. Yeo is losing it
Good linemates would make difference for sure, but yeos style doesn't fit at all for MiG no matter with whom or what is he playing. I believe many of people wondering if they should this or do that doesn't realize this point at all, from game one MiG has been looked totally out of place and still does. He is not there not even close, it's not just adjusting his playing, he has to learn the game again from point zero.


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02-18-2013, 02:42 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by behemolari View Post
Good linemates would make difference for sure, but yeos style doesn't fit at all for MiG no matter with whom or what is he playing. I believe many of people wondering if they should this or do that doesn't realize this point at all, from game one MiG has been looked totally out of place and still does. He is not there not even close..
Granlund hasn't looked out of place for more than a week now! He looks better at center now than both Cullen and Brodziak IMO.

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02-18-2013, 04:51 PM
  #137
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I was a little confused with Granlund going down to the 4th line after he has been playing much better as of late. I mean giving the kid 8 minutes of ice after playing his best hockey of the season the 3 games before??

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Zucker is here to stay though I think thats evident. Larsson played well in a checking role and maybe its Granlund who goes down with a Bouchard return.

I sure don't want that with his recent step up in play and abilities starting to show. He sets up 3 good chances for line mates every single game and has been shooting more. Also he has his feet going nonstop which has been opening up opportunities for him lately.

While sending him down will only help his development I'd rather have him up with the Wild right now...its just with Zucker likely staying and PMB coming back..Granlund might be the odd man out I'm afraid.

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02-18-2013, 04:54 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by behemolari View Post
Good linemates would make difference for sure, but yeos style doesn't fit at all for MiG no matter with whom or what is he playing. I believe many of people wondering if they should this or do that doesn't realize this point at all, from game one MiG has been looked totally out of place and still does. He is not there not even close, it's not just adjusting his playing, he has to learn the game again from point zero.

apparently you haven't watched the last 4 games?? Granlund looks every bit like he belongs and each and every game he is getting better and building confidence. The last 3 games especially we have seen bursts of speed and tremendous passing that he is known for. His skills are already translating and he continues to get better every game.

You must of been watching something else?

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02-18-2013, 05:10 PM
  #139
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I'd just like to point out that "molari" translates to "goalie", making your names rather similar. Coincidence? I think not.

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02-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #140
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Exactly. If you move him to the AHL, he will dominate and may re-learn bad habits that work against lesser competition. The NHL is really the only place he will learn.
This.

Granlund was beyond dominate in the AHL before he was injured. Sending him back to Houston now, when there's less talent there, is not going to improve his play. If anything, it's going to make him worse because he will be able to get away with things in the AHL that he won't be able to get away with here.

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02-18-2013, 05:15 PM
  #141
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I'd just like to point out that "molari" translates to "goalie", making your names rather similar. Coincidence? I think not.
Hmm, "coincidental" join dates as well...

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02-18-2013, 05:30 PM
  #142
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Hmm, "coincidental" join dates as well...
GopherState, at least put some effort in when trying to make it look like we're not all clones. This is just getting lazy.

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02-18-2013, 05:54 PM
  #143
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Granlund and Koivu have the same number of assists through their first 14 NHL games. One of Koivu's games was a 3 point game. It was the tribute game to Sergei Zohltok. Koivu had assists in only 12 of his first 14 games. At least Granlund is a little more consistent. Not to mention hes on a 3 game point streak. Doesn't score as much as Koivu's first 14, though. 1 goal compared to 4. But Koivu was also playing with Bouchard and Rolston. At least one was on all 4 goals. Not quite the talent Granlund is stuck waddling around with.

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02-18-2013, 06:31 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
I did not say that. I said the firstline has been lackluster, not that everyone on it is.
... so you mean Heatley? You could just say that instead of being so dramatic.

Anyways, I agree that Heatley isn't the best first liner, but Granlund has yet to show me that he can survive the bigger and stronger defensemen.

Parise's and Koivu's game is all about the board play, the grind, and the tenacity. I personally think Granlund will slow those guys down because he is having trouble along the boards. He is getting better, but not ready to play against opposing top pairings.

I wouldn't mind seeing Granlund a bit of taste, but will definitely not scream for it be a concrete decision.

I honestly wish Granlund would solidify his 2nd line position. But the introduction of Zucker has that in jeopardy. I want to see if Zucker can keep it up, because if he can, I think Granlund's best bet is in the AHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
Neither did I say Zucker is nothing special, but I said his performance was good, but outside his goal I did not see anything that great.
... can someone be special but do nothing great outside a goal? I'm confused.

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Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
Yes, Larsson did nothing, more or less.
Larsson was very solid, broke up numerous plays along the boards by tying up opponents or battling for the puck. Very reliable, strong all-round skater. Still need works in the offensive zone but made several great defensive plays.

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Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
I would love to see Granlund on the firstline, I do not think he would be a bigger defensive liability than Heatley based on his game.
Like I said earlier, Granlund is still adjusting, slowly but surely.

But he is anything but ready for a consistent pairing with the Koivu-Parise duo. Again, he is still adjusting to the smaller rinks. His main problems is about board play, quick feet, drive hard. All of these problems will be present whether his winger be Parise or Rupp.

The only problem is, if he played on the first line, he'll play against top defensive pairings, and top offensive forwards. At this point of his career, I don't trust him nearly enough to be comfortable with him being a regular 1st line player.

At least on the 2nd line, he'll have less talented defenseman matched up against him, but he still struggled. He is getting better, but not there yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
There seems to be a huge amount of bi-polarisme on these boards; we lose everyone is screaming bloody murder (not litteraly everyone), and when we win then we should "not change what works".
Last nights game did IMO not work. Did no one notice that the Wild sucked for atleast half of the game?
I don't think majority screamed bloody murder. I think most of us were frustrated because after all the linetinkering (Coyle auditioning for 1st line, Granlund to the 4th line etc.), we still will look dead and we relied only on the 1st line.

The 2nd line wouldn't click. Our bottom six players were as energetic as we wanted them to be. We were a one line team, with a struggling one line.

But even against the Red Wings, when we were trailing 2-0, there was a noticeable jump in their play. Zucker really gave that 2nd line some speed and tenacity on the forecheck and the 3rd line had numerous chances.

We started to look like a team with four lines. That is what is so promising.

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Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
Had it not been for the Red Wings having a major collapse, and Mrazek not being able to cover his five hole, we would not have won, maybe not even gotten one single goal.
Yes, because our win was all, 100% Red Wings fault. Not because of a good battle by Parise to create a rebound for Heatley. Not because Zucker skated with all he could to create his own scoring chance. Not because Granlund and Mitchell fought for the puck.

Yes, teams do collapse. But they collapse because the other team is outworking them. They collapse under pressure and during puck battles. They collapse because the other team is doing something that forces them to adjust their play, sometimes for the worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M View Post
I'm not saying that every aspect of the last game was bad, but it had enough of the bad and the ugly to warrent changes.
If that is your opinion, I don't think I can say anything else. But I thought the 2nd line was great, fast and tenacious. 3rd line look very solid defensively with a number of scoring opportunities; can't really ask for anything more.

1st line starting to click and produce again. Granlund looks like he's picking up the physical part of the game nicely.

Just a game that is full of great signs.

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02-18-2013, 07:17 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
There's no reward punishment factor IMO...if he's not a good fit in the top six, that's fine, but don't stick him on the fourth line like we did with James Sheppard and Benoit Pouliot.
Are you really comparing Granlund's situation with Pouliot and Sheppard? I like you Jarick, but this is a little off base.

Pouliot's biggest issue was he had the tools but no toolbox. Playing in the top 6 helped diminish these deficiencies due to the players playing around him. But the kid had no drive, no intelligence at all. That's why he failed.

Sheppard's biggest problem wasn't really his problem. It was the organization. Sheppard should have never been on the team. His skating was an issue and he had a lot of development to make. It would be like throwing Phillips on the team now. Plus as much as we revere Lemaire, he was kind of a dick to a lot of players and if you ended up in his doghouse, it wasn't pretty, which Sheppard ended up in. Could Sheppard have done better? Definitely but he was a kid and still learning the ropes. Plus we jerked him around.

Granlund isn't like Pouliot or Sheppard. He definitely deserves to be in the NHL. And he definitely has the intelligence and skill to play. He just need to continue moving his feet and bulking up a bit. He needs to learn to be quicker (not necessarily skating but avoiding hits and keep his feet moving). Throwing him on the 4th line is a way to help his development, not hinder it. We need Granlund to get used to NA and to the NHL. We don't need to have him burdened by the fact he isn't producing any offense or generating goals. We just need him to get better at the small things in the NHL before we ask him to get better at the big things.

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02-18-2013, 07:29 PM
  #146
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The idea that Grandlund can't develop and learn while wearing a Wild uni has already been proven to be crap.

He has improved since game 1 and will continue to.

Hey Mikael we want you to skate on the 4th line today and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael today you will play wing and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael today we want you to just watch the game and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael we want you back on the 2nd line at center and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael you get to be a wing again and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael we want you back on the 4th line as a center and Mikael says "ok"

All the while that is going on what has Mikael done? Improve, contribute and work on his game.

Enough with the Granlund needs to play in Houston nonsense already.

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02-18-2013, 08:15 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Granlund isn't like Pouliot or Sheppard. He definitely deserves to be in the NHL. And he definitely has the intelligence and skill to play. He just need to continue moving his feet and bulking up a bit. He needs to learn to be quicker (not necessarily skating but avoiding hits and keep his feet moving). Throwing him on the 4th line is a way to help his development, not hinder it. We need Granlund to get used to NA and to the NHL. We don't need to have him burdened by the fact he isn't producing any offense or generating goals. We just need him to get better at the small things in the NHL before we ask him to get better at the big things.
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
The idea that Grandlund can't develop and learn while wearing a Wild uni has already been proven to be crap.

He has improved since game 1 and will continue to.

Hey Mikael we want you to skate on the 4th line today and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael today you will play wing and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael today we want you to just watch the game and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael we want you back on the 2nd line at center and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael you get to be a wing again and Mikael says "ok"
Hey Mikael we want you back on the 4th line as a center and Mikael says "ok"

All the while that is going on what has Mikael done? Improve, contribute and work on his game.

Enough with the Granlund needs to play in Houston nonsense already.
You two have made my venture to HF worthwhile. Thank you.

Almost half the people here want him sent back to Houston, almost half want him on the top line/***** and moan about him being on the 4th line. Barely anyone is taking the time to understand that this KID, who can't even go to the bars here, is trying to adjust his game to a much bigger/faster/stronger/take no prisoners style of play. Find the middle ground and stop swinging back and forth between "OMG SEND HIM TO HOUSTON" and "OMG FIRE YEO CAUSE HE'S NOT ON THE FIRST LINE"

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02-18-2013, 08:42 PM
  #148
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You two have made my venture to HF worthwhile. Thank you.

Almost half the people here want him sent back to Houston, almost half want him on the top line/***** and moan about him being on the 4th line. Barely anyone is taking the time to understand that this KID, who can't even go to the bars here, is trying to adjust his game to a much bigger/faster/stronger/take no prisoners style of play. Find the middle ground and stop swinging back and forth between "OMG SEND HIM TO HOUSTON" and "OMG FIRE YEO CAUSE HE'S NOT ON THE FIRST LINE"
Don't get me wrong, i am not happy about his being on the fourth line yesterday but i am sure Yeo had his reasons and he won't be on the 4th line on a regular basis. Hell maybe Yeo decided on Mikael playing their because he knew he wouldn't pout about it and if he asked someone else to center the 4th line they would have gotten a case of the ass over it. IMHO i think it should have been Brodziak if it was to based off of performance which it clearly was not the reason why MG played on the 4th line yesterday.

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02-18-2013, 08:57 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
Don't get me wrong, i am not happy about his being on the fourth line yesterday but i am sure Yeo had his reasons and he won't be on the 4th line on a regular basis. Hell maybe Yeo decided on Mikael playing their because he knew he wouldn't pout about it and if he asked someone else to center the 4th line they would have gotten a case of the ass over it. IMHO i think it should have been Brodziak if it was to based off of performance which it clearly was not the reason why MG played on the 4th line yesterday.
Oh I agree completely (especially on the brodzy part). I was a little ticked that he was on the 4th line as well. But as fans, we don't know everything, or even a majority, of things that go on in the locker room and why decisions are made. Pretty much that whole team has the flu, so it could be that Granlund was on the tail end of it and didn't have the energy to play as many minutes. Or Yeo knew Granlund wouldn't pout about it. Or a million other things that no one would even think to consider.

Fans need to move away from expecting someone in their rookie year to start the season off spectacularly. It's great when it happens, but it doesn't happen often. Be pleasantly surprised when it does instead of saying the kid is a bust because he's not on the top line by the 15th or whatever game.

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02-18-2013, 09:34 PM
  #150
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I am somewhat happy that I got my wish of a 4th line that could actually chip in offensively because good teams have that kind of depth. I never imagined it would be FBJ though

Too many spare parts. We need to trade some underperforming veterans and let the kids play. The Johan can take Cullen or Brodziak's spot for all I care. Both havent been good this year. Time for Cullen to be run out of town like Zids. I can't watch another Cully shift. Just brutal.

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