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Six years, $18M to Colin White?!

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Old
07-11-2006, 12:34 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic View Post
Trolling? Hardly
Alot of stiffs get cup rings, the roster has to be filled out doesnt it?
Just because Chara doesnt have a ring means absolutely nothing, you should really think things out before you click "submit reply".

How many elite Dmen currently playing dont have rings?
How many retired top end Dmen don not have a ring?

Bottonline is sure maybe C.White is an nhl dmen, a #5-6 Dmen in the mold of maybe a slightly better John Erksine but 6yrs 18$ is simply retarded PERIOD
Omg, this is possibly the worst post I have ever seen at HF.

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07-11-2006, 12:55 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic View Post
Trolling? Hardly
Alot of stiffs get cup rings, the roster has to be filled out doesnt it?
Just because Chara doesnt have a ring means absolutely nothing, you should really think things out before you click "submit reply".

How many elite Dmen currently playing dont have rings?
How many retired top end Dmen don not have a ring?

Bottonline is sure maybe C.White is an nhl dmen, a #5-6 Dmen in the mold of maybe a slightly better John Erksine but 6yrs 18$ is simply retarded PERIOD
Holy crap...how early in the morning do you start drinking?

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07-11-2006, 01:12 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by HBK27 View Post
Holy crap...how early in the morning do you start drinking?
White doesn't get the respect he deserves because he's never had the media's help in being a guy available at the deadline (Mitchell, I call this Sean O'Donnell syndrome...when we traded for Sean O'Donnell at the deadline in '01 everyone was hyping him as some top 4 defenseman) or a guy who's reached UFA, at that point everyone starts drooling over the most marginal of players. Is White going to set the world on fire and make an all-star team? No. Is he making less money now than he would next summer if he signed a one-year deal...you bet your ***. Six years isn't that long for a guy who's 28, guys who are 29 sign five year deals and nobody gives it a second thought.

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07-11-2006, 01:51 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashlanding View Post
White doesn't get the respect he deserves because he's never had the media's help in being a guy available at the deadline (Mitchell, I call this Sean O'Donnell syndrome...when we traded for Sean O'Donnell at the deadline in '01 everyone was hyping him as some top 4 defenseman) or a guy who's reached UFA, at that point everyone starts drooling over the most marginal of players. Is White going to set the world on fire and make an all-star team? No. Is he making less money now than he would next summer if he signed a one-year deal...you bet your ***. Six years isn't that long for a guy who's 28, guys who are 29 sign five year deals and nobody gives it a second thought.
Before this year Elias was very underrated by many people. Once he became an impending UFA he suddenly became the top left wing in the NHL.

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07-11-2006, 02:17 PM
  #180
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Before this year Elias was very underrated by many people. Once he became an impending UFA he suddenly became the top left wing in the NHL.
Nah, it's because this board has no long term memory. It's very much a "what have you done for us lately" type thing.

Elias came back and NJ went on a tear, then he started scoring goals like crazy in the playoffs including that one huge game. It's fresh in peoples minds thus he becomes one of the top in the league. UFA might help, but I think that has a larger impact.

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07-11-2006, 02:57 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brylin18 View Post
Obviously you didn't follow the free agent market this summer for defensemen. Guys like Mitchell, Mckee, and Kuba were all paid between $3-4M. White is bargain at $3M now, but will not be so much of a bargain at $3M when he's 34. Lou did what he had to to keep his player.
Actually, I have followed it very closely. The problem is that you assumed that I apporved of those signing and they weren't overpaid. They were and many of those deals in fact were to long for salary cap hit.

None of those you mentioned signed for 6 years which is the main point of contention.

While the Devils will likely get extra value because they've locked in a fixed price they lose out on flexibility.

It's up to Lou to balance out his long term contracts with short term contracts because you have to have flexibility to move your money so to speak.

Very similar to asset allocation principle in money management. Locking in a faxed rate provides stability but you also risk capital devaluation and being locked into a rate of return which may not be suitable for the market structure.

I.e White's locked into a 6 year deal but he gets a little worse every year and then say in year 3 there's a trend in the Eastern division where there's a run on speedy little skill guys. Let's pretend for a moment that White has extreme difficulty defending these types of guys and he's no longer a 2 or a 3. Plus he's lost a little bit not much but a little his intrinsic value is now more of a 3rd pairing d-man because his strength on defense no longer measure up with the current trends in the NHL. you're still locked into the contract for 4 more years and you're paying a former #2,#3 guy 3 million when he's only giving you #5 or #6 type performance. His trade value is clearly down and he still has a huge contract for 4 years.

Conversely the opposite is true.

He may be better suited and he gets better each year and the game changes in such a way where's he's now a solid top pairing D-man and he's locked in at a low rate.

Yes I know Lou has thought about all this and of course they factor all of that in but it's still a risk for 6 years. 9 million dollars are tied up between white and Elias for 6 years. No one knows if 9 million now will be the same greater or less than 9 million in 6 years.

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Old
07-11-2006, 03:03 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittel16 View Post
Omg, this is possibly the worst post I have ever seen at HF.
Guy, your 16 years old....isnt there a sand box you should be playing in

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07-11-2006, 03:26 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bruinaholic View Post
Guy, your 16 years old....isnt there a sand box you should be playing in

Uh, how many 16 year olds do you know who play in a sand box?

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07-11-2006, 03:29 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PattyLafontaine View Post
Actually, I have followed it very closely. The problem is that you assumed that I apporved of those signing and they weren't overpaid. They were and many of those deals in fact were to long for salary cap hit.

None of those you mentioned signed for 6 years which is the main point of contention.
Whether they were overpaid or not is not really relevant. That was the market price for a defenseman of White's caliber. White, at $3M, at his current playing ability is a bargain. When he is 34, he may not still be a bargain, but that is the price Lou has to pay in order to not pay as much to White now. The principle is exactly the same as with Elias.

White would not have signed a 3 year deal for $3M, not with the market being what it was. To say that that is what Lou should have done is not being realistic. So Lou did the next best thing by extending the years. We won't see the negative repercussions of this deal, if there are any, for another 4-5 years, by which time many things can change.

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07-11-2006, 04:16 PM
  #185
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If White signed for 3.5M for five years everyone would be telling us how that would screw us with the cap instead of laughing at the length. Since nobody else has been given a 6 year deal this is terribly irresponsible. While other GMs bringing in guys for five year deals are getting a pass. Is that one year really that scary?

Had Lou signed McKee or some other mercenary to a 6 year deal that would be way more questionable than signing a guy who we already know works well in our system.

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07-11-2006, 04:19 PM
  #186
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I like how I consistently get flamed by Devils fans for offering differing opinions.

I understand I'm a very opinonated person, but it doesn't just open the door for all of the posters to just flame because of it.

It's just getting to the point where it's hysterical.



But there definately are some great posters like crashlanding and Lou is God who are, more or less, fun to debate with and very polite even if things get heated.

Props to the posters like those two afformentioned ones.

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07-11-2006, 04:23 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
If the Rangers signed him for this much he'd be drooling and calling Sather a genius.......don't pay any attention to that guy.
I highly doubt it because I don't think many Rangers fans would really want White on our team.

Maybe I am speaking from my own standpoint, but I am just not a fan of the guy. Of course I'd welcome a player like Martin or Rafalski any day, but I'm just not a big fan of White -- a player who I've seen exploited so many times the past few seasons because of his overall foot speed and hotheadedness.

I also doubt that ANYONE would ever call Sather a genius... Especially a Ranger fan!

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07-11-2006, 07:01 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic View Post
Trolling? Hardly
Alot of stiffs get cup rings, the roster has to be filled out doesnt it?
Just because Chara doesnt have a ring means absolutely nothing, you should really think things out before you click "submit reply".

How many elite Dmen currently playing dont have rings?
How many retired top end Dmen don not have a ring?

Bottonline is sure maybe C.White is an nhl dmen, a #5-6 Dmen in the mold of maybe a slightly better John Erksine but 6yrs 18$ is simply retarded PERIOD

My point is that Boston overpaid for a guy who can't cut it in the big games. He played on some great Ottawa teams that came up short, while White "CONTRIBUTED" to winning two cups.

Chara is not the same defensemen in the new NHL, that's why the Sens went with Redden. Even the Rangers decided he wasn't worth the money.


Last edited by Brooklyndevil: 07-11-2006 at 07:09 PM.
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Old
07-11-2006, 07:07 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I highly doubt it because I don't think many Rangers fans would really want White on our team.

Maybe I am speaking from my own standpoint, but I am just not a fan of the guy. Of course I'd welcome a player like Martin or Rafalski any day, but I'm just not a big fan of White -- a player who I've seen exploited so many times the past few seasons because of his overall foot speed and hotheadedness.

I also doubt that ANYONE would ever call Sather a genius... Especially a Ranger fan!
What any of us think is unimportant, because Lamoriello must think highly of White and considers him to be one of his core players. I'm not the biggest Colin White fan, but he did play quite well last season. Even his dumb penalties were down.

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07-11-2006, 07:28 PM
  #190
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The lengths of the Elias and White deals is the tradeoff Lou has to make, in part, as a result of his mistakes of last summer. The annual $$$ being given these players is not out of whack with the rest of the NHL this off-season, IMO, whatseover. White and Elias are instead demanding longer security, and Lou has to give it, in order to retain them. Negotiations 101.

In a perfect world, one supposes, Elias would be inked for 5 years and White for maybe 3-4. But it's an imperfect world.

Ultimately, these are tough decisions, and the correct ones, IMO. Better to retain your own, known commodities than go fishing for a core from other teams' UFA pool. It's pretty obvious that Lou is operating the cap differently than most (all) other NHL GMs currently. And the results last year back him up. Only four other team had more successful years, and played longer into the spring. That point - on-ice results - is often overlooked (or disregarded disingenuously) by critics.

We'll see what 2006-07 brings. But its clear the Lou gets it: Under the new CBA, you cultivate and maintain a small core of severals players (only) and grow no attachment whatsoever to the rest of your roster...for they will be rotated in and out like bit actors in a movie, with regularity.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-11-2006 at 11:16 PM.
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07-11-2006, 10:21 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
What any of us think is unimportant, because Lamoriello must think highly of White and considers him to be one of his core players. I'm not the biggest Colin White fan, but he did play quite well last season. Even his dumb penalties were down.
That should be noted as well.

While I certainly think he's hit his "peak" as a player, I still do recognize him as a tangible asset.

I just am not a fan is all.

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07-11-2006, 10:35 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic View Post
Guy, your 16 years old....isnt there a sand box you should be playing in
I see, and my age somehow makes me less qualified to comment on the situation than you? From your posts, it's clearly evident that you are totally ignorant of the situation the Devils are in, as well the type of defenseman Colin White is.


Last edited by Feed Me A Stray Cat: 07-11-2006 at 10:44 PM.
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07-11-2006, 10:36 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I like how I consistently get flamed by Devils fans for offering differing opinions.

I understand I'm a very opinonated person, but it doesn't just open the door for all of the posters to just flame because of it.

It's just getting to the point where it's hysterical.


Its because you do it on the Devils board and you make very derogatory statements very frequently.

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07-11-2006, 10:58 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Its because you do it on the Devils board and you make very derogatory statements very frequently.
Where do I make all of these "very derogatory statements"?

I come on and give a mostly objective opinion, get flamed, defend myself, and somehow I'm the bad guy?

OKAY.

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07-11-2006, 11:07 PM
  #195
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Just curious, what the heck are Gionta and Gomez going to get? White at 3 mil per Elias at 6, 4.5-5.5 per?

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07-11-2006, 11:17 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Where do I make all of these "very derogatory statements"?

I come on and give a mostly objective opinion, get flamed, defend myself, and somehow I'm the bad guy?

OKAY.
See Below



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription

1/06/2006 3:05AM

I watched a big portion of the Lil' Debbies game and was NOT impressed at all. I've been watching them all season long, also. They are not a playoff team and the only way they get in is if someone seriously ****s up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription

The Devils defense is very, very mediocre. I would rank them in the lower to lower middle in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I'd rather have Tom Poti than Colin White.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I'd still say that Colin White takes WAYYYY too many bonehead penalties for his own good.


You are a trouble maker......You act like you want to conversation and drop in these bombs that you know will only provoke the fans on their own board.


EDIT:
Should I get more cause that is mostly from 1 thread

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Old
07-12-2006, 12:18 AM
  #197
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So saying a defense is mediocre, making a sarcastic statement (which I CLEARLY clarified a post or so later -- post the whole ****ing thing instead of trying to lie), and making an objective opinion on a players penalty amounts is all of a sudden TROUBLE MAKING?

What planet are you from?

And at that January time, I WASN'T impressed with your team and didn't think highly of them at all. They changed completely, though. But who outside your fan base expected that?

Please, come up with some better material. All you've posted are objective opinions of mine which differ from yours and one small shot at the team when I called them the Little Debbies (Devils fans call the Rangers the Rags all the time so it's only fair).

Again, your material sucks and you lose.

Sorry.

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Old
07-12-2006, 03:10 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
So saying a defense is mediocre, making a sarcastic statement (which I CLEARLY clarified a post or so later -- post the whole ****ing thing instead of trying to lie), and making an objective opinion on a players penalty amounts is all of a sudden TROUBLE MAKING?

What planet are you from?

And at that January time, I WASN'T impressed with your team and didn't think highly of them at all. They changed completely, though. But who outside your fan base expected that?

Please, come up with some better material. All you've posted are objective opinions of mine which differ from yours and one small shot at the team when I called them the Little Debbies (Devils fans call the Rangers the Rags all the time so it's only fair).

Again, your material sucks and you lose.

Sorry.

You aren't objective. You hate the Devils. Stop pretending otherwise.

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07-12-2006, 05:30 AM
  #199
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That's enough guys.

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