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ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:54 AM
  #226
Hobnobs
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Eskimos picks Odie Cleghorn, RW

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02-18-2013, 12:05 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Eskimos picks Odie Cleghorn, RW
Harry Broadbent and Odie Cleghorn should be taken about 50 picks apart. Odie Cleghorn should rise at least a full round in these drafts.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:08 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Harry Broadbent and Odie Cleghorn should be taken about 50 picks apart. Odie Cleghorn should rise at least a full round in these drafts.
Which means Broadbent should fall how many rounds?

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:10 PM
  #229
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Im an honest person thats all
That'll get you nowhere nowadays....

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:10 PM
  #230
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Red Wings select Nick Metz, LW. Can someone please PM the next GM? I am in a hurry. Thank you!

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:25 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Red Wings select Nick Metz, LW. Can someone please PM the next GM? I am in a hurry. Thank you!
done

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:29 PM
  #232
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Which means Broadbent should fall how many rounds?
I don't see what makes Harry Broadbent a Top-200 all-time player, just like I don't see how Odie Cleghorn is not a top-300 all-time player. I would need to study his opposition more carefully to pinpoint a position for both of them, but 128 vs. 330 is absolutely ludicrous IMO.

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Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Red Wings select Nick Metz, LW. Can someone please PM the next GM? I am in a hurry. Thank you!
I had him last draft, and was pleasantly surprise with his goalscoring abilities. A great playoff performer. There's not that much info out there of defensive minded players of the O6 era and earlier, but I think I've made a good biography on him.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=112

PS: he can definitely play both wings with ease.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:36 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Colville was the third player I decided to research, and I have basically concluded my research on him. There's not a ton of information, but I found some good bits which should add more to our knowledge of this player. I think he has been rather underrated in the ATD to this point. His consolidated AST voting finishes are:

Center: 2, 2, 3
Defense: 4, 7

That's quite an extravagant voting record for this point in the draft, actually. How are you planning to use him, BBS? He was mostly a center, but seems to get used mostly on defense in the ATD. I think he can play both, but would be most interesting at center.
I definitely hope to have him at third line center, but the fact that he's versatile sort of keeps my options open with my next few picks.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:51 PM
  #234
tony d
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I'm at work and don't have time to update the OP but will do so when I get home in 2-3 hours, here's a look at where we stand right now:

323 Velociraptor - Trail Smoke Eaters- Mike Gartner, RW
324 Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs- Shea Weber, D
325 Nalyd Psycho & Mike Farkas - Minnesota Fighting Saints- Dave Burrows, D
326 Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Athletic Club - Neil Colville, C/D
327. jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds- Brian Rafalski, D
328 DoMakc - HC Donbass- Don Mckenney, C
329 Jafar - Montreal Canadiens - Joe Klukay, LW
330 Hobnobs - Seattle Eskimos- Odie Cleghorn, RW
331 Reds4Life - Detroit Red Wings- Nick Metz, LW
332 MadArcand - Hartford Whalers- OTC until 9:10 PM EST

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:56 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
btw.....thanks for taking Rafalski (grumble.....grumble.....mutter.....grumble)

Right handed PMD....I could've used him on a PP unit.
You're welcome

Rafalski fits with Salming on the first PP unit to give us a LH shot and a RH one as well. If we do pair him with Ramage then Rafalski's speed will help counter for Ramage's slowness.

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Old
02-18-2013, 02:04 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I'm at work and don't have time to update the OP but will do so when I get home in 2-3 hours, here's a look at where we stand right now:

323 Velociraptor - Trail Smoke Eaters- Mike Gartner, RW
324 Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs- Shea Weber, D
325 Nalyd Psycho & Mike Farkas - Minnesota Fighting Saints- Dave Burrows, D
326 Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Athletic Club - Neil Colville, C/D
327. jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds- Brian Rafalski, D
328 DoMakc - HC Donbass- Don Mckenney, C
329 Jafar - Montreal Canadiens - Joe Klukay, LW
330 Hobnobs - Seattle Eskimos- Odie Cleghorn, RW
331 Reds4Life - Detroit Red Wings- Nick Metz, LW
332 MadArcand - Hartford Whalers- OTC until 9:10 PM EST
Thanks....

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Old
02-18-2013, 02:30 PM
  #237
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The Whalers select Al Arbour, coach.


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Old
02-18-2013, 03:31 PM
  #238
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The Edmonton Mercurys are proud to select C Pit Lepine.



Quote:
Pit Lepine was a tall and rangy player who broke in with the Montreal Canadiens 1925 and played his whole 13 year career with the Habitants. He was a good-looking man whose premature gray hair gave him a distinguished appearance and he was an idol of many fans.

Lepine was a very competent center who, in addition to his playmaking ability, was very adept with a sweeping poke-check. However, he was destined to play for many years under the shadow of the great Howie Morenz who centered the first line.

Canadiens manager Frank Selke Sr. was a big fan of Lepine's. "Lepine brought to the game a polish seldom seen before. On any other team Pit would have been a blazing meteor, but he was doomed to play all his hockey in the shadow of the truculent Morenz, who at the time, was the fiercest competitor in all of hockey."
http://habslegends.blogspot.com/2008/07/pit-lepine.html next pmed.

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:39 PM
  #239
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The Edmonton Mercurys are proud to select C Pit Lepine.



http://habslegends.blogspot.com/2008/07/pit-lepine.html next pmed.
It would be a very good study to try and figure out just how much Howie Morenz hurts Pit Lepine offensive production. I think he's a very good pick and an excellent #3 centreman at this point in the draft.

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Old
02-18-2013, 04:52 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I would definitely rank Boyle above Gonchar as far as defense goes though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
I disagree , I think Boyle has proven he could be decent in his own end in San Jose.

I'm not saying he's better than Gonchar overall , but he's a little bit more reliable defensively imo.
Agree. I would definitely take Boyle in his own zone over Gonchar. Gonchar was pretty good in his own zone for a few years in Pittsburgh, but that was a small portion of his career.

That said, I would definitely rank Gonchar above Boyle on an "all-time" list based on his offense. In the ATD, Gonchar has a lot of value as a guy capable of being the main QB for a powerplay - Boyle is more of a support player on the PP at this level. As for even strength, they are probably pretty similar in value with Gonchar better offensively and Boyle better defensively.

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I remember that play lol.

To be honest I was embarrassed for him even though I was happy that we won.



Looking at it now it's even worst than my memories.
Gonchar has a few doozies from his time in Washington too.

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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I'll take C/D, Neil Colville


Two-time second all-star at center in 1939 and 1940. He finished third in voting in 1938 behind Apps and Cowley as well.

Following the war Colville moved back to defense making the second all-star team once and finishing tied for 6th in all-star voting another year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Colville was the third player I decided to research, and I have basically concluded my research on him. There's not a ton of information, but I found some good bits which should add more to our knowledge of this player. I think he has been rather underrated in the ATD to this point. His consolidated AST voting finishes are:

Center: 2, 2, 3
Defense: 4, 7

That's quite an extravagant voting record for this point in the draft, actually. How are you planning to use him, BBS? He was mostly a center, but seems to get used mostly on defense in the ATD. I think he can play both, but would be most interesting at center.
I would very much be interested in knowing if the center version of Colville provides anyting but offense.

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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
The Whalers select Al Arbour, coach.

Great coach, but is he a great coach for a team built around Bobby Hull and Pavel Bure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
It would be a very good study to try and figure out just how much Howie Morenz hurts Pit Lepine offensive production. I think he's a very good pick and an excellent #3 centreman at this point in the draft.
Pit Lepine is a fantastic defensive center, IMO the best defensive forward of the 1930s. But his offensive numbers are pretty bad for a center at this level - a single top 20 finish in points and that was 19th.

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Old
02-18-2013, 04:57 PM
  #241
TheDevilMadeMe
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I've been basically off hfboards for a couple of days, so I'm not sure if this is accurate, but the OP says under deductions:

jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds (243) -4 hours

That should read

jkrx & KingForsberg - Philadelphia Firebirds (243, 327) -2 hours

? They couldn't have possibly missed 4 picks by now, right?

Also, great job in keeping the OP updated almost singlehandedly over the last couple of days, tony. I'll be able to help more now, I think.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Great coach, but is he a great coach for a team built around Bobby Hull and Pavel Bure?
A great coach for Bossy & Trottier isn't a great coach for Hull & Fedorov and Bure & Datsyuk?

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:05 PM
  #243
tony d
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I just made the changes to the OP. My apologies to jkrx and KingForsberg. I thought that you counted missing picks by the hrs. they missed, not the # of picks they missed.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:25 PM
  #244
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pit Lepine is a fantastic defensive center, IMO the best defensive forward of the 1930s. But his offensive numbers are pretty bad for a center at this level - a single top 20 finish in points and that was 19th.
That's it. I wanna know how much Morenz hurt is offensive abilites. I drafted him long ago, and I remember reading he was a capable offensive player, but his stats surely don't show that.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:37 PM
  #245
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
A great coach for Bossy & Trottier isn't a great coach for Hull & Fedorov and Bure & Datsyuk?
I'm not an authority on Arbour, but my impression is that he was very big on team play and discipline. And the end-to-end rushes and sometimes puck hogging by Hull and Bure and cherrypicking by Bure are the opposite of disciplined team-oriented play.

I dunno. Would a guy like Arbour cut down on their bad habits and make them more team-oriented? Or would he just not use them to their potential?

I think Sturminator was a hockey fan living on Long Island during their dynasty years, so I'm interested in his view on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
That's it. I wanna know how much Morenz hurt is offensive abilites. I drafted him long ago, and I remember reading he was a capable offensive player, but his stats surely don't show that.
Yeah, Pelletier mentions Lepine's playmaking ability, but his assist numbers are atrocious for a center - only his goal scoring seems to keep his overall offense respectable from a statistical standpoint.

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:05 PM
  #246
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The Edmonton Mercurys are proud to select C Pit Lepine

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:09 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'm not an authority on Arbour, but my impression is that he was very big on team play and discipline. And the end-to-end rushes and sometimes puck hogging by Hull and Bure and cherrypicking by Bure are the opposite of disciplined team-oriented play.

I dunno. Would a guy like Arbour cut down on their bad habits and make them more team-oriented? Or would he just not use them to their potential?
I don't want to weigh in on specifics about Arbour, but in general I feel like player/coach style contrasts detract from effectiveness more than they make up for shortfalls. An authoritarian, drill sergeant coach isn't going to make an egomaniac humble, and a blueline trap coach isn't going to teach defensive awareness to Pavel Bure. Maybe one Bure could fit Arbor's scheme with some two-way linemates, but insofar as it affects the ATD game, I consider it a minus.

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:14 PM
  #248
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I thought Cleghorn should go earlier as well. Five years top-10 in goals or assists, three cups and a edgy battling spirit. He's got second line all-time great written all over him. We took HHOFer Bauer instead because his peak was more significant, having four 2nd team all-stars to Odie's zero, not to mention a few other factors.

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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I don't see what makes Harry Broadbent a Top-200 all-time player, just like I don't see how Odie Cleghorn is not a top-300 all-time player. I would need to study his opposition more carefully to pinpoint a position for both of them, but 128 vs. 330 is absolutely ludicrous IMO.
Indeed. As is the gap between 34, 166 and 314 for Schmidt, Porky Dumart and Bauer.

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:19 PM
  #249
MadArcand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
I don't want to weigh in on specifics about Arbour, but in general I feel like player/coach style contrasts detract from effectiveness more than they make up for shortfalls. An authoritarian, drill sergeant coach isn't going to make an egomaniac humble, and a blueline trap coach isn't going to teach defensive awareness to Pavel Bure. Maybe one Bure could fit Arbor's scheme with some two-way linemates, but insofar as it affects the ATD game, I consider it a minus.
What? Bure isn't egomaniac and Arbour isn't a trap coach.

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:28 PM
  #250
Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'm not an authority on Arbour, but my impression is that he was very big on team play and discipline. And the end-to-end rushes and sometimes puck hogging by Hull and Bure and cherrypicking by Bure are the opposite of disciplined team-oriented play.

I dunno. Would a guy like Arbour cut down on their bad habits and make them more team-oriented? Or would he just not use them to their potential?
One note about Arbour's Islanders is the spacing and puck support on the breakouts and in D-zone coverage. One hand helped the other. The Isles lacked a ton of foot speed (relative to the Oilers, at least) which was fine for Arbour's system. Controlled breakouts. Short passes to maneuver past forecheckers. Not necessarily having a designated player just barrel down the ice with it and hope he can make it to the promised land, or no hail mary passes to players waiting at the red line. That wasn't really in the game plan as far as I can tell for the Isles.

Maybe someone that lived through the Isles dynasty (which I always say, there's never enough support for that Isles dynasty on HoH - tons of Wings and Habs and Bruins homers, but no Isles homers to prop up some of their players, it's a shame in this context) could correct me if I'm wrong. But the tactics employed by the successful Islanders teams didn't really utilize team speed all that much...in fact, I would suggest that it would slow speed down, especially in transition behind center.

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