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Old
02-18-2013, 04:14 AM
  #226
ProPAIN
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Someone spam Ansar Khan/Helen St. James on twitter to ask Holland/Babcock about Cleary. I want to see what they genuinely think of him this season.

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02-18-2013, 07:06 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by aar000n View Post
if they send him down I hope they dont send him to Toledo, we are winning here.
Haha, good to start my morning off with a laugh, thanks.

This team is much better without Cleary anywhere near a scoring line. 1 bloody goal in 15 games, I mean, come on!

I think this team is also much better keeping Datsyuk and Zetterberg split up, adds a lot to the depth. I think this is a year to put Filppula back on the third line as well, to add to the depth. He's not scoring like last year, and having him on the third line would help with the resigning process.

Samuelsson looked awfully slow, along with Cleary and Eaves I think they should be gone.

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Franzen - Zetterberg - Brunner
Tatar - Filppula - Tootoo
Abdelkater - Helm - Miller

For me, that's personally the line up I'd like to see. Give Nyquist prime time minutes if that's what everyone says he needs. They are available when guys like Cleary are getting them.

Each of the top three lines has skill, tenacity, and some size, and the fourth line is an energy line, like it should be. Miller, in my opinion is the best of the rest and is a good PKer.

Tootoo I believe is being under utilized. He's tough as nails, hits like a truck, can fight, and has career highs in points that are higher than Miller, Emmerton, Abdelkater, and almost as high as Eaves one year(32 vs 30). He had 24 assists last year, that's something to think about.

I know it's a pipe dream and will never happen with Cleary, Samuelsson, Eaves, Emmerton, etc kicking around. This team(and a lot of fans too) seem to value grinders who have little offense over skilled players throughout the line up... The thing that's always led the Wings to be successful.

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02-18-2013, 09:17 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Someone spam Ansar Khan/Helen St. James on twitter to ask Holland/Babcock about Cleary. I want to see what they genuinely think of him this season.
Mike Babcock on Danny Cleary:

"Well he's been working hard and doing what he needs to do, he's just been snakebitten. You know ehhh he's a big body who works hard every shift that we can use in any situation. He is a great locker room guy and works hard out there, aye."


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02-18-2013, 11:19 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Mike Babcock on Danny Cleary:

"Well he's been working hard and doing what he needs to do, he's just been snakebitten. You know ehhh he's a big body who works hard every shift that we can use in any situation. He is a great locker room guy and works hard out there, aye."

When did he become Mike McBabcock?

And that's probably almost exactly what he'd say.

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02-18-2013, 11:39 AM
  #230
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I hate when he says "real good". I hate when anyone says that.

Such a pet peeve.

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02-18-2013, 11:40 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
I think this team is also much better keeping Datsyuk and Zetterberg split up, adds a lot to the depth. I think this is a year to put Filppula back on the third line as well, to add to the depth. He's not scoring like last year, and having him on the third line would help with the resigning process.

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Franzen - Zetterberg - Brunner
Tatar - Filppula - Tootoo
Abdelkater - Helm - Miller
You know, you could keep Dats/Zetterberg together. They did show moments of the old magic last night. Emmerton is developing into an adequate centerman, and Anderson hasn't been terrible either.

Z-Dats-Brunner
Franzen-Filppula-Nyquist
Tatar-Helm-Tootoo << I would love to see this line iced. Three little balls of fury.
Emmerton + any combo of Miller/Eaves/Abby/Bert

imo, that's 3 really strong lines, if Nyquist is who we think he is. I am kinda drooling over that third line right now. The speed, the skill, the grinding power. You could roll those lines. The fourth line isn't too bad either. You put Bert and Miller on there and that's a decent bit of skill with some speed.

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02-18-2013, 11:45 AM
  #232
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We have to accept the fact that Cleary will be in the lineup every game this year unless he gets hurt. As sad as that sounds.

The only thing we can realistically hope for is that Holland isn't stupid enough to re-sign him after the season.

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02-18-2013, 11:46 AM
  #233
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We need to have a rule that every theoretical lineup has to have Cleary in the top-nine.

Let's be realistic guys.

EDIT: What BPP said^^

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02-18-2013, 12:07 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
You know, you could keep Dats/Zetterberg together. They did show moments of the old magic last night. Emmerton is developing into an adequate centerman, and Anderson hasn't been terrible either.

Z-Dats-Brunner
Franzen-Filppula-Nyquist
Tatar-Helm-Tootoo << I would love to see this line iced. Three little balls of fury.
Emmerton + any combo of Miller/Eaves/Abby/Bert

imo, that's 3 really strong lines, if Nyquist is who we think he is. I am kinda drooling over that third line right now. The speed, the skill, the grinding power. You could roll those lines. The fourth line isn't too bad either. You put Bert and Miller on there and that's a decent bit of skill with some speed.
I do like that third line, but I disagree about Emmerton. His offense is non existent. I really don't see what you see in him. 2 points in 15 games? He's a plug, plain and simple. Filppula is so much better in that scoring center role than either Helm or Emmerton.

Bert is useless on the fourth line, he has good chemistry with Datsyuk and with Nyquist, that line could be a good puck possession line.

I think my issue is, this teams just simply better with D and Z anchoring their own lines. They are so much better and make the players around them better. You need to share that wealth when this roster has no other such players. Harder to match up against as well, why keep both PPG players on the same line?

If Filppula is in the top six, it seems like he should be a winger, otherwise, 3rd line center.

I think we are thinking along the same lines though.

Hell, with sheltered minutes around 12 a night I think Cleary could be a great fourth liner, to be honest.

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02-18-2013, 12:09 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
We have to accept the fact that Cleary will be in the lineup every game this year unless he gets hurt. As sad as that sounds.

The only thing we can realistically hope for is that Holland isn't stupid enough to re-sign him after the season.
Quote:
We need to have a rule that every theoretical lineup has to have Cleary in the top-nine.

Let's be realistic guys.

EDIT: What BPP said^^


It's true but I can dream. I don't wish injury on anybody but he'd still be making money with a pulled groin and the team would be much better...

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02-18-2013, 03:49 PM
  #236
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His offense is non existent. I really don't see what you see in him. 2 points in 15 games?
To be fair to him, until recently our bottom 6 as a whole was pretty crap. That can't be all on him. And you have to use a different metric for bottom 6 guys. They rarely get PP time, a lot of Emmerton's minutes come from PK, where he's not exactly a threat to score. And with the Wings being down as much as they are, Babcock's been unable to roll 4 lines. Has to keep the scoring lines out there, less ice time for Emmerton. If he's not on the ice, he has no chance to score. I'd be interested in seeing ES production per minute of the entire team of forwards.

But they've turned it up lately. They got some goals, putting on some pressure. Emmerton doesn't have much that he's shown in the way of offensive flair, but he's a solid all around guy for now. And I really think Miller has more goals in him. He's been getting chances for the past few games now, they're going to start going in. Bert's a big body with a scoring touch and with Miller/Emmerton digging pucks out, he could pot a few.

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02-18-2013, 05:21 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Someone spam Ansar Khan/Helen St. James on twitter to ask Holland/Babcock about Cleary. I want to see what they genuinely think of him this season.

St James loved cleary, she will defend him regardless of play. she probably has to dictate her twtter and articles with the pom poms on her hands

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02-18-2013, 06:50 PM
  #238
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I hope Cleary gets a non-threatening, non-painful, non-significant injury that only allows him to play a max of 10 minutes per game.

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02-18-2013, 06:53 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I hope Cleary gets a non-threatening, non-painful, non-significant injury that only allows him to play a max of 10 minutes per game.
And at the same time, he develops a severe allergy to Z, D and Helm, and thus he is only physically capable of playing on the 4th line and PK.

Better yet, let him get completely healthy by hanging out in the press box for the rest of the season, assuming he couldn't be dealt for virtually anything.

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02-18-2013, 08:36 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I hope Cleary gets a non-threatening, non-painful, non-significant injury that only allows him to play a max of 10 minutes per game.
He already has it, problem is the coaches haven't taken notice. He needs to play the role of Maltby late in his career, a 4th line penalty killer

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02-18-2013, 09:53 PM
  #241
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He already has it, problem is the coaches haven't taken notice. He needs to play the role of Maltby late in his career, a 4th line penalty killer
The worst was Cleary's 26 goal season. It made Babcock think he is much better than he actually is, and he is still riding that reputation out today.

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02-18-2013, 10:38 PM
  #242
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The worst was Cleary's 26 goal season. It made Babcock think he is much better than he actually is, and he is still riding that reputation out today.
Really? Before his 26 goal season, discounting 09-10 when his knees imploded on him, he had 3 straight years of at least 40 points. He isn't riding the reputation of a 26 goal scorer 2 years ago. He's riding the reputation of a solid two-way player who can chip in on offense when healthy. Perhaps that's why he has a long leash and mysteriously gets minutes we don't think he deserves. Coaches like Babcock who like to assign a certain role to certain player(s) can be stubborn as well as very patient when it comes to players like Cleary who play a certain role Babcock wants filled. They can be patient perhaps to a fault. 15 games of poor play without an excuse is usually not enough to warrant benching in their eyes.

Who knows. It's all weird, really. Filppula is playing hurt and gets criticized. Cleary could be playing hurt and doesn't get criticized... Questions that are probably left unanswered. Until I actually know what's going on... It's hard to criticize when you have no reasoning presented by the staff for such moves.

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02-18-2013, 10:46 PM
  #243
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Really? Before his 26 goal season, discounting 09-10 when his knees imploded on him, he had 3 straight years of at least 40 points.
Yeah, on an absolutely stacked roster.

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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
It's hard to criticize when you have no reasoning presented by the staff for such moves.
I agree with you 100%, I would actually like to know as well. That is fair.

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02-18-2013, 10:57 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Really? Before his 26 goal season, discounting 09-10 when his knees imploded on him, he had 3 straight years of at least 40 points. He isn't riding the reputation of a 26 goal scorer 2 years ago. He's riding the reputation of a solid two-way player who can chip in on offense when healthy. Perhaps that's why he has a long leash and mysteriously gets minutes we don't think he deserves. Coaches like Babcock who like to assign a certain role to certain player(s) can be stubborn as well as very patient when it comes to players like Cleary who play a certain role Babcock wants filled. They can be patient perhaps to a fault. 15 games of poor play without an excuse is usually not enough to warrant benching in their eyes.
If you add in last year's ineffective performance, it's actually up to 90 games at this point. I know where you're going here, that Cleary's productive seasons should buy him time to turn it around. But when there are better scoring options on the roster and the team is struggling to hit the back of the net, you gotta demote the guy who's playing with elite centers but not producing offense.

Quote:
Who knows. It's all weird, really. Filppula is playing hurt and gets criticized. Cleary could be playing hurt and doesn't get criticized... Questions that are probably left unanswered. Until I actually know what's going on... It's hard to criticize when you have no reasoning presented by the staff for such moves.
Apart from reports on season ending injuries or the generic upper/lower body injury report on a guy, you almost never get anything from a coach or organization about a player. I almost feel like Babs mentioned that Flip was hurt when he criticized him to provide some sort of excuse for him, but he usually keeps the injury cards close to the vest.

Coaches make wrong decisions, or take gambles that don't work out, all the time... if they were never wrong, they'd never get fired. It's totally fine if you don't feel comfortable critiquing a coach or player b/c you don't have 100% of the information on hand. IMO, fans rarely, if ever, get to know 100% of the info about any team situation or decision. Because of that, I don't have an issue with criticizing lineup or personnel decisions using the info at my disposal b/c I know that I'll never have the behind-the-scenes info anyway, and coaches and GM's to a point are hired to be fired- even the best of them are not perfect in their roles.

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02-19-2013, 08:34 AM
  #245
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Yeah, on an absolutely stacked roster.
Yeah... And Kris Draper put up 29, 17, and 17 points in the same span on an absolutely stacked roster. Your point?

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02-19-2013, 02:54 PM
  #246
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Call up Callahan to replace Cleary.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=2H8kx6J9puY

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02-19-2013, 03:35 PM
  #247
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Call up Callahan to replace Cleary.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=2H8kx6J9puY
I want that bear to replace our Bear. (I remember that was Cleary's nickname?)

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02-19-2013, 03:40 PM
  #248
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Call up Callahan to replace Cleary.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=2H8kx6J9puY
wtf was that

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02-19-2013, 07:39 PM
  #249
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Yeah... And Kris Draper put up 29, 17, and 17 points in the same span on an absolutely stacked roster. Your point?
Hahaha here's one for you bud.

Kris Draper at age 34- 32 points.
Dan Cleary at age 34- 33 points.

That 29 point season was Draper at age 35. Which looks pretty good to the season Dan Cleary is currently putting up at age 34/35.

The way Cleary is rapdily declining he'll probably do worse than draper the next 3 years in point totals, if he can stay in the league that long. I'm going to bet he can't. Draper also played center and was great at draws.

Hudler put up 57 points in those years to show what an actually talented offensive forward could do on that stacked roster in a similar role and similar minutes.

Your point?

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02-19-2013, 07:48 PM
  #250
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Hahaha here's one for you bud.

Kris Draper at age 34- 32 points.
Dan Cleary at age 34- 33 points.

That 29 point season was Draper at age 35. Which looks pretty good to the season Dan Cleary is currently putting up at age 34/35.

The way Cleary is rapdily declining he'll probably do worse than draper the next 3 years in point totals, if he can stay in the league that long. I'm going to bet he can't. Draper also played center and was great at draws.

Hudler put up 57 points in those years to show what an actually talented offensive forward could do on that stacked roster in a similar role and similar minutes.

Your point?
Nice Red Herring. You wasted your time typing up. My point is bringing up the "stacked roster" argument is crap. He scored 26 goals on an arguably thinner roster. A stacked roster has little to do with his production.

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