HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Edm-Ott

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2013, 01:49 PM
  #101
sansabri
#blocktheboat
 
sansabri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montréal, QC
Posts: 8,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozesmadness View Post
The Oilers will get a 2nd rounder and a C level prospect for Whitney.
from whom??

sansabri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 01:58 PM
  #102
Mozesmadness
MEMORIAL CUP CHAMPS!
 
Mozesmadness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,866
vCash: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
from whom??
Whomever needs a top four d-man

Mozesmadness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:05 PM
  #103
sansabri
#blocktheboat
 
sansabri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montréal, QC
Posts: 8,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozesmadness View Post
Whomever needs a top four d-man
if he could play like a top-4 dman... ok. but he hasn't.

sansabri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:07 PM
  #104
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
i'm surprised Whitney is still even playing in the NHL after all the injuries he's had.

anyway, i can't imagine the Oilers getting anything back for him - not even a late pick. they'll most likely just let him walk this summer.
This is just being silly.

He's had a slow start coming off short camp, not playing during the lockout, and recovering from a major injury. However to say he has zero trade value maybe says more about your ability to gage NHL ability. Pure hyperbole I hope ...

I'm not sure Whitney is long for the Oilers. But an in prime years dman with size, experience, and offensive abilities on an expiring contract will always find a buyer. To think otherwise is a joke.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:08 PM
  #105
Mozesmadness
MEMORIAL CUP CHAMPS!
 
Mozesmadness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,866
vCash: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
if he could play like a top-4 dman... ok. but he hasn't.
That does not mean he can't, he has shown in the past he can be #1 pairing defenceman

Mozesmadness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:13 PM
  #106
sansabri
#blocktheboat
 
sansabri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montréal, QC
Posts: 8,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
This is just being silly.

He's had a slow start coming off short camp, not playing during the lockout, and recovering from a major injury. However to say he has zero trade value maybe says more about your ability to gage NHL ability. Pure hyperbole I hope ...

I'm not sure Whitney is long for the Oilers. But an in prime years dman with size, experience, and offensive abilities on an expiring contract will always find a buyer. To think otherwise is a joke.
first off, it's never a good sign when your own team is sitting you out for your atrocious play.

you nailed it when you mentioned he had a major injury. some players can take 2 years before they're back to their old selves. Whitney has had numerous injuries to his ankles and knees.

hey, if the Oilers can get a 2nd round pick for a guy who's gonna end up being on their 3rd pair - good for them. otherwise, it's a rare instance that a team gets good value just because a player has experience.

sansabri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:16 PM
  #107
sansabri
#blocktheboat
 
sansabri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montréal, QC
Posts: 8,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozesmadness View Post
That does not mean he can't, he has shown in the past he can be #1 pairing defenceman
yeah, in the past. even Whitney himself has said that in the past he used to get by off his athleticism itself.

he's not the same player anymore.

sansabri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:31 PM
  #108
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
first off, it's never a good sign when your own team is sitting you out for your atrocious play.

you nailed it when you mentioned he had a major injury. some players can take 2 years before they're back to their old selves. Whitney has had numerous injuries to his ankles and knees.

hey, if the Oilers can get a 2nd round pick for a guy who's gonna end up being on their 3rd pair - good for them. otherwise, it's a rare instance that a team gets good value just because a player has experience.
Glad to see you've moved off quickly off the bold hyperbole of 'no value.' The guy has 450 NHL games and 250 points from the backend.

The Oil are making a statement to veteran players inclusive of Whitney, Smyth, and Horcoff. Whitney may no longer fit on this team - remains to be seen - and multiple healthy scratches are a bad sign. But if he goes on the block, he will have value based on NHL results, size and some ability to move the puck, along with an expiring contract that minimizes risk.

Given his age, a pro-active team making a Cup run could grab a quality depth or better defenseman and all the while auditioning for resigning.

450 NHL games, 250 points and a peak year dman at age 30 for a lottery ticket is hardly outrageous. The likelihood of a second round pick or lower covering that bet in terms of NHL production is beating substantial odds of the NHL draft results.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:40 PM
  #109
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
... if he goes on the block, he will have value based on NHL results, size and some ability to move the puck, along with an expiring contract that minimizes risk ...
What did the Oil get for Sheldon Souray, currently 728 games, 290 points?

officeglen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:45 PM
  #110
sansabri
#blocktheboat
 
sansabri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montréal, QC
Posts: 8,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
Glad to see you've moved off quickly off the bold hyperbole of 'no value.' The guy has 450 NHL games and 250 points from the backend.

The Oil are making a statement to veteran players inclusive of Whitney, Smyth, and Horcoff. Whitney may no longer fit on this team - remains to be seen - and multiple healthy scratches are a bad sign. But if he goes on the block, he will have value based on NHL results, size and some ability to move the puck, along with an expiring contract that minimizes risk.

Given his age, a pro-active team making a Cup run could grab a quality depth or better defenseman and all the while auditioning for resigning.

450 NHL games, 250 points and a peak year dman at age 30 for a lottery ticket is hardly outrageous. The likelihood of a second round pick or lower covering that bet in terms of NHL production is beating substantial odds of the NHL draft results.
you make a lot of good arguments - but you're forgetting that this is a shortened season. we're almost half-way through and if Whitney keeps getting benched; he won't have much of a chance to audition.

teams are very high on the upcoming draft and while Whitney had a very good career going back a few years ago; he's simply not that same player this year. maybe next year he'll be better. maybe he won't. but to assume a player has value just because of what he's done in the past doesn't always get other teams to open up their wallet.

someone like Kaberle - who's had a very solid career - won't fetch much. no one cares what he's done in the past. people have seen how he plays now and it's not going to get teams to pay good value for his services.

sansabri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:54 PM
  #111
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
What did the Oil get for Sheldon Souray, currently 728 games, 290 points?
Very different scenario. Souray had multiple year 5 million dollars remaining on his contract. Closer comparison is Redden. No one wanted big money with multiple years.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:56 PM
  #112
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
Very different scenario. Souray had multiple year 5 million dollars remaining on his contract. Closer comparison is Redden. No one wanted big money with multiple years.
Thus "NHL results, size and some ability to move the puck", not important relative to "expiring contract"

officeglen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 02:59 PM
  #113
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
you make a lot of good arguments - but you're forgetting that this is a shortened season. we're almost half-way through and if Whitney keeps getting benched; he won't have much of a chance to audition.

teams are very high on the upcoming draft and while Whitney had a very good career going back a few years ago; he's simply not that same player this year. maybe next year he'll be better. maybe he won't. but to assume a player has value just because of what he's done in the past doesn't always get other teams to open up their wallet.

someone like Kaberle - who's had a very solid career - won't fetch much. no one cares what he's done in the past. people have seen how he plays now and it's not going to get teams to pay good value for his services.
First, we're not at the half way mark and the trade deadline is not until April. There is a full month and a half to showcase - both to the Oilers coaching staff and to other management teams. To use your new market value of a second round pick, a mid to late second round pick for defensive depth will be reasonable and teams will look for the edge to win now. The draft is hyped every year and the yet the projections over time suggest a crap shoot for second round and later.

There is sufficient time for Whitney to get into condition and either make the Oil defensive depth better or find a new home for a reasonable return given all the NHL results I've already mentioned.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:02 PM
  #114
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
Thus "NHL results, size and some ability to move the puck", not important relative to "expiring contract"
Expiring contract is critical. Freedom to utilize a player now to win without big money at the back end. Why else do you think Souray went unclaimed at half price to all NHL takers? Pretty obvious to anyone that they didn't want to pay the money. We've seen that with Souray, Redden, Gomez. Same thing for all players.

Whitney is different in that he is UFA after this year. Pretty simple premise.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:07 PM
  #115
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
Expiring contract is critical. Freedom to utilize a player now to win without big money at the back end. Why else do you think Souray went unclaimed at half price to all NHL takers? Pretty obvious to anyone that they didn't want to pay the money. We've seen that with Souray, Redden, Gomez. Same thing for all players.

Whitney is different in that he is UFA after this year. Pretty simple premise.
Currently Redden has an expiring contact. He is 6.2, 210lbs, 1003 games, 452 points, so that meets all your criteria. Using your pretty simple premise, what's his trade value?

officeglen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:18 PM
  #116
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
Currently Redden has an expiring contact. He is 6.2, 210lbs, 1003 games, 452 points, so that meets all your criteria. Using your pretty simple premise, what's his trade value?
Well let's see. Oh ya, he got an NHL contract after two years in the minors on a potential Cup contender to boot. Alleged to have more than 1 suitor.

Seems NHL GM's have a sense for market value for dmen. And clear from history value rises toward the trade deadline. Just have a look - history is a pretty good teacher.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:19 PM
  #117
Selanne138
Registered User
 
Selanne138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
have they tried surgery to make it right?
I see what you did there.

Selanne138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:26 PM
  #118
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,133
vCash: 137
Whitney is as much of a top-4 dman as Redden is.

Benny FTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 03:34 PM
  #119
Trafalgar Law
Waive Dallas Eakins
 
Trafalgar Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiled up* View Post
Whitney > Ottawa 1st and stone.

Imho Whitney is more proven and is in a slump that I'm sure he will fix.

You just don't trade players in a slump for things of lesser value. That's why Edmonton doesn't make this trade.
You can't seriously believe Ryan Whitney is worth a 1st round pick... See, this is why other fanbases hate us.

Trafalgar Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:08 PM
  #120
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
Thus "NHL results, size and some ability to move the puck", not important relative to "expiring contract"
You're neglecting the fact that Souray was coming off of two major injuries and a bad attitude as well. Plus, Souray isn't much of a puck mover, just a shooter and hitter.

zeus3007* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:53 PM
  #121
cpsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,046
vCash: 500
Oilers fan here..

I can't believe how much of my fellow oiler fans are overvaluing Whitney here. You can't badmouth him on the Oilers board and ask him to be scratched every game, then come over here on the main boards and say he's a top 4 D-man.

Also you can't call this a slump. The guy has NOT been the same since his ankle injury. Whether or not he returns to form, or comes out of a "slump", or if he on the other hand stays at his current level of play is a gamble for ANY team. A gamble on a player who currently an NHL #5 to #7 defenseman is something that TREMENDOUSLY lowers their value. You value the player based on what you know. Whitney WAS a top pairing defenseman but since injury has not even showed a glimpse of returning to that form. Until he shows that with the oilers, he will not have any increase in his value, which is currently minimal.

Now, I'm not saying that he won't return to form and elevate his value (this is possible but unlikely IMO), but you have to place the value based on current circumstances. If you think the price for Whitney is too low, you simply don't trade him. It's kind of like the stock market. Buy low, sell high.

cpsman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:58 PM
  #122
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
You're neglecting the fact that Souray was coming off of two major injuries and a bad attitude as well. Plus, Souray isn't much of a puck mover, just a shooter and hitter.
I was just discussing his premise, which I don't agree with, but was willing to debate.

My premise is pretty simple too. If a vet is playing like poop, and has been sat multiple games, and has a large contract, he has low trade value. The league is so competitive now, so many one goal games, that teams can't take on vets as projects. They can bring up young players, because they have to develop cheap talent due to the cap, and they can get many years of play when they do develop them. But to bring a vet in who is playing like poop is too risky. First the owner says, why am I paying millions for poop? Then the GM has to tell the coach to put the poop on the ice. Then the poop causes the team to miss the playoffs, and the owner says "where's the money from the playoffs?".

Compare if a trade is made for a vet that is playing well. The owner says great, now we make the playoffs and I get my money back. The GM doesn't have to tell the coach to play the vet. The coach looks smart, as he can insert the vet into the lineup and not rely as much on less talented players. Vets that are playing well have good trading value.

Is Whitney playing well right now?

officeglen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 10:25 PM
  #123
IranCondraAffair
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,167
vCash: 500
This thread needs a bump in a few years

IranCondraAffair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 10:32 PM
  #124
Pekka Rinne
Registered User
 
Pekka Rinne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IranCondraAffair View Post
This thread needs a bump in a few years
When Stone still isnt in the NHL?

Pekka Rinne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 10:37 PM
  #125
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekka Rinne View Post
When Stone still isnt in the NHL?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray
Mark Stone: “He’s going to be a candidate to play in the NHL very quickly,” Murray said. “His skating has improved, he’s big and strong, he’s got a head for the game. He had a great junior career, it’s time for him to get to the next level, develop his game at that level, and we know he’ll be a top six forward down the road.”
You do know who is saying that?

officeglen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.