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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIV

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:45 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
i would rather use that package to get a true top line winger. i think we're paying too much for something that we don't really need, a center.

and yeah, people are saying move turris to the wing. but is he even good on the wing? who knows.
You're not getting a top line winger with that package.

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02-18-2013, 09:04 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Turris hasn't played much at wing, hedging our bets on O'Reilly and hoping Turris turns into a goal scoring winger (something he's never once been) is way too risky. We need a goal scorer. ROR is more of the same, another defensive minded player who sees the ice well. Stand pat and wait for a guy who can put the puck in net.

I'd also make a move for another top 4 D before contemplating another center. We're set at that position.

Zibanejad will be a better goal scorer than o'Reilly and actually play the wing. His ability on the flank isn't a hypothetical, it's something we've actually witnessed.
Turris has played wing and we've all witnessed it (most of us) when he played in the playoffs and "broke out". That was when he first really got noticed. Zibanejad might be a better scorer but I doubt he ends up the better player. O'Reilly is a much smarter player than Zibanejad.

I would take O'Reilly over Zibanejad always on any team.

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02-18-2013, 09:34 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Turris has played wing and we've all witnessed it (most of us) when he played in the playoffs and "broke out". That was when he first really got noticed. Zibanejad might be a better scorer but I doubt he ends up the better player. O'Reilly is a much smarter player than Zibanejad.

I would take O'Reilly over Zibanejad always on any team.
We're talking about a 6 game sample size, correct?

Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a Zibanejad vs O'Reilly debate. There's still the 5+ million we'd have to invest and I'm not fond of Wiercoich as a throw in. As it stands right now, Wier is probably Gonchar's replacement. I don't want to create holes in our lineup next year in an attempt to salvage a playoff berth.

We'd then have to spend upwards of 5M in free agency to plug Gonch's void (sounds dirty) unless we're wanting Benoit or Gryba there.

So, 10M or so added in salary plus we won't have addressed our needs. It's just not a great move for this squad. We're better off letting Zibanejad, Stone etc develop in the NHL before dealing them.

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02-18-2013, 09:49 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
We're talking about a 6 game sample size, correct?

Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a Zibanejad vs O'Reilly debate. There's still the 5+ million we'd have to invest and I'm not fond of Wiercoich as a throw in. As it stands right now, Wier is probably Gonchar's replacement. I don't want to create holes in our lineup next year in an attempt to salvage a playoff berth.

We'd then have to spend upwards of 5M in free agency to plug Gonch's void (sounds dirty) unless we're wanting Benoit or Gryba there.

So, 10M or so added in salary plus we won't have addressed our needs. It's just not a great move for this squad. We're better off letting Zibanejad, Stone etc develop in the NHL before dealing them.
Where would we be adding 10m in salary? We're at most adding about 5m for O'Reilly...if we don't re-sign Gonchar his 5.5 comes off the books. We get Cowen back next year and a bunch of the Bingo guys are a year more developed. There are a few free agents that will maybe be available, and maybe more a trade could be in the works.

You act like ROR wouldn't be a very significant part of our future. He's 22 (just turned 22 recently) years old and following a very nice trajectory in his career. He's a natural leader and a very hard worker. He would be part of the core of our franchise moving forward and if he continues to develop as he has could one day even be a #1 centre. Zibanejad is a nice player but I see his upside as a very good 2nd line winger.

Ultimately this boils down to a matter of opinion, but I don't see how that move hurts us especially with our obvious defensive depth, potential trades, and free agents (Corvo, Gonchar, Visnovsky, Whitney, Streit, etc.) that could fill Gonchar's spot. Meanwhile we have great centre depth and without having to move for an elite winger we have a potentially elite winger in Turris to play with Spezza while Silfverberg has another year under his belt and could play the 2nd line with O'Reilly. Stone, Hoffman, Prince, and Da Costa all have another year...etc.

It's a move that really anchors our team right now in allowing us to potentially compete while also bringing a lot to our future without having to rely on Zibanejad to reach his top end potential. Keep in mind...we're only talking about moving Zibanejad and Wierchioch...we still have a huge cupboard stocked full of prospects.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:52 PM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
We're talking about a 6 game sample size, correct?

Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a Zibanejad vs O'Reilly debate. There's still the 5+ million we'd have to invest and I'm not fond of Wiercoich as a throw in. As it stands right now, Wier is probably Gonchar's replacement. I don't want to create holes in our lineup next year in an attempt to salvage a playoff berth.

We'd then have to spend upwards of 5M in free agency to plug Gonch's void (sounds dirty) unless we're wanting Benoit or Gryba there.

So, 10M or so added in salary plus we won't have addressed our needs. It's just not a great move for this squad. We're better off letting Zibanejad, Stone etc develop in the NHL before dealing them.
Eh... personally, I'd say our next UFA signing will be Gonchar's replacement.

Weircioch has been ok. Seems like a "really good 5/6 NHL guy" than someone I'd want to give 20 minutes to on a consistent basis on a good team.

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02-18-2013, 10:02 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Eh... personally, I'd say our next UFA signing will be Gonchar's replacement.

Weircioch has been ok. Seems like a "really good 5/6 NHL guy" than someone I'd want to give 20 minutes to on a consistent basis on a good team.
At this point I'd agree with you. I think eventually he'll be a 3/4 guy, but last thing we want to do is throw a young Dman in a position where he isn't comfortable. Being a 5/6 guy for a couple seasons aint the worst thing in the world.

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02-18-2013, 11:01 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Eh... personally, I'd say our next UFA signing will be Gonchar's replacement.

Weircioch has been ok. Seems like a "really good 5/6 NHL guy" than someone I'd want to give 20 minutes to on a consistent basis on a good team.
I'll rephrase. Wiercioch will probably take over Gonchar's PP minutes and role as a secondary puck mover. Cowen is the guy who will take over his 20+ minute load.

We need someone to play that right point on the PP unless we're going 4 forwards. Maybe that role is taken over by an UFA but without PW the pressure to fill that hole mounts and it becomes a necessity.

Much easier to find a defensive top 4 D on July 1st than an offensive D. They get stupid money.

As for Turris on the wing, I don't want that. He's a playmaking center. That generally doesn't translate well to the wing. I'm sure he'd be alright there but to maximize his production, he's gotta be at center ice. We have playmakers at center and we have solid defensive centers from 1-4. O'Reilly is just redundant and having a 5M player on the 3rd line won't work under this harsher cap with all our other holes. We dont have a Landeskog or Downie to play with ROR on the 2nd line either let alone the 3rd.

There are literally dozens of players I'd rather target now or in the offseason. A trio of Isles come to mind in Okposo, Niño and Grabner.

And I may be out of my homer mind but realistically, how much more production is ROR gonna get out of that second line than Da Costa right now. He's creating a ton of chances right now without much to show for. O'Reilly has many talents but he's not and never will be a noted finisher. This move doesn't improve our team enough in the short term to justify sacrificing the potential of Zibanejad. In my opinion, we're a better team in three year with Zibanejad over O'Reilly without even taking into consideration what Wier might become or what Dorion and Murray could turn a 3rd into.

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:08 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Emerica View Post
You're not getting a top line winger with that package.
that's debatable.

i'm with folignoquantumleap here. even though ror is a good player, with potential to be great i don't think this is the right move right now. i don't see this guy as a number one center as was suggested. i think people are pumping up this guy to unrealistic levels.

yes we need a center this year, but moving forward i don't see it. top 6 wing is the need. and no turris on the wing.

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:13 PM
  #584
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He's having a lousy season but man id love okposo

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:15 PM
  #585
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If he were available, would you trade for Havlat? Depending on the price of course.

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02-18-2013, 11:29 PM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
We're talking about a 6 game sample size, correct?

Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a Zibanejad vs O'Reilly debate. There's still the 5+ million we'd have to invest and I'm not fond of Wiercoich as a throw in. As it stands right now, Wier is probably Gonchar's replacement. I don't want to create holes in our lineup next year in an attempt to salvage a playoff berth.

We'd then have to spend upwards of 5M in free agency to plug Gonch's void (sounds dirty) unless we're wanting Benoit or Gryba there.

So, 10M or so added in salary plus we won't have addressed our needs. It's just not a great move for this squad. We're better off letting Zibanejad, Stone etc develop in the NHL before dealing them.
Only way I would trade Zib or Silf is in a package for a legit top line winger or top flight D man. We dont need another Center. (Injuries aside)

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:37 PM
  #587
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If he were available, would you trade for Havlat? Depending on the price of course.
Depending on the price? Maybe.

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:47 PM
  #588
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I'd take him as a cap dump ie for extremely cheap.

He was my favourite player back in the day though so I really can't be objective one the matter. A second line of Havlat-Turris-Michalek could be pretty solid. Milan would have to give up #9.

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02-18-2013, 11:53 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
that's debatable.

i'm with folignoquantumleap here. even though ror is a good player, with potential to be great i don't think this is the right move right now. i don't see this guy as a number one center as was suggested. i think people are pumping up this guy to unrealistic levels.

yes we need a center this year, but moving forward i don't see it. top 6 wing is the need. and no turris on the wing.
Alright, let's debate then.

Which ''true'' first line wing do you think we could fetch for a Zibanejad, Wiercioch and 3rd round pick package?

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02-19-2013, 12:04 AM
  #590
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Alright, let's debate then.

Which ''true'' first line wing do you think we could fetch for a Zibanejad, Wiercioch and 3rd round pick package?
fleishmann, versteeg, okposo, cammaleri, voracek, etc.

you would have to add a bit obviously to get guys like perry at the deadline.

now, i'm not advocating getting the all of the above names but with some adjustments to the package suggested i believe some could be had.

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02-19-2013, 12:10 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
fleishmann, versteeg, okposo, cammaleri, voracek, etc.

you would have to add a bit obviously to get guys like perry at the deadline.

now, i'm not advocating getting the all of the above names but with some adjustments to the package suggested i believe some could be had.
How the hell are those guys true first line wingers?

None of the guys you mentioned are first line talent. They may play on the first line of their team, but that's just a testament to how bad their top 6 is. I wouldn't trade Zibby, Wiercioch and a 3rd for any of the guys you mentioned either.

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02-19-2013, 12:13 AM
  #592
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So we are in talks for O'Reilly, though it appears the price may be too high right now. Seeing as no one else is prepared to pay the price right now, we might want to consider this one as one to watch for us. The price is bound to come down.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/18...-on-sens-radar

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02-19-2013, 12:15 AM
  #593
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^ Anywhere but Toronto please. I actually like O'Reilly, would be a shame if he played for the Leafs..

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02-19-2013, 12:16 AM
  #594
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O'Brien is solid, and he's a body we could use for this season after sending Wierchioch over to Colorado. A ufa in 2015...that's still another 2 years after this season?

It would be worth it for ROR.
You are acting like ROR is the next Crosby, have you considered for one minute why the Rockies aren't all over signing him for $5M?

ROR is showing the right trajectory but please spare me he is worth $5M based on his achievements to date.

I also question his leadership when he puts himself ahead of the team, which is exactly what he is doing IMO.

Secondly O'Brien at 29 doesn't bring what Wiercoich at 22 offers and never will. He is a downgrade on PW and if you are really trying to improve the team you don't just accept a body we don't need because some fans of the Rockies agreed.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 02-19-2013 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Small correction: Rockies should read Avalanche :)
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02-19-2013, 12:20 AM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
You are acting like ROR is the next Crosby, have you considered for one minute why the Rockies aren't all over signing him for $5M?

ROR is showing the right trajectory but please spare me he is worth $5M based on his achievements to date.

I also question his leadership when he puts himself ahead of the team, which is exactly what he is doing IMO.

Secondly O'Brien at 29 doesn't bring what Wiercoich at 22 offers and never will. He is a downgrade on PW and if you are really trying to improve the team you don't just accept a body we don't need because some fans of the Rockies agreed.
Avs.

And they aren't signing him because Lacroix and Giguere have a club rule about contract length for young guys. Look at Duchene. He wanted long term but they didn't want too. They want guys to prove themselves for a couple seasons. ROR wants years. Avs wont give it to him.

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02-19-2013, 12:20 AM
  #596
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You are acting like ROR is the next Crosby, have you considered for one minute why the Rockies aren't all over signing him for $5M?
Probably because he doesn't play baseball. Just a guess, though.

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02-19-2013, 12:23 AM
  #597
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In terms of deadline deals, Anaheim is the team I'd like to deal with. Plenty of good talent ready to step into the bigs in that system.

Not that it's what they'd be looking for but how about Smith-Pelley for Gonchar? No? William Karlsson, Rackell, Etem, Friberg? I dunno, I just love their prospect pool.

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02-19-2013, 12:29 AM
  #598
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Avs.

And they aren't signing him because Lacroix and Giguere have a club rule about contract length for young guys. Look at Duchene. He wanted long term but they didn't want too. They want guys to prove themselves for a couple seasons. ROR wants years. Avs wont give it to him.
Sherman.

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02-19-2013, 12:30 AM
  #599
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Sherman.
My bad. Wishful thinking that it wasn't Sherman lol

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02-19-2013, 12:50 AM
  #600
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At this point I'd agree with you. I think eventually he'll be a 3/4 guy, but last thing we want to do is throw a young Dman in a position where he isn't comfortable. Being a 5/6 guy for a couple seasons aint the worst thing in the world.
Obviously you haven't been watching, because that is exactly what MacLean is going with both Weircoich (19:38 today) and Gryba (20:11 today). In fact both played more than Methot.

IMO people need to get over this attitude that says the prospects aren't ready until some unidentified thing occurs and turns them into NHLers.

The only way to know is to give them a chance to play, watch their play and learning curve, then make an informed decision. IMO just like what Murray & Co are doing now.

I realize the "grass is greener" and "instant gratification" syndromes are alive and well on these boards, so trades and UFA signings meet the criteria, but it isn't necessarily the best way forward.

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