HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2013, 08:17 PM
  #376
BackGroundMusic
rebuildingeverywhere
 
BackGroundMusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Have My Baby Pierre View Post
Honestly, I think it would take Grigorenko to land O'Reilly from Colorado.
And to that I say, eff that noise.

BackGroundMusic is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:20 PM
  #377
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,024
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...-to-him/12593/



So, what is the Sabres equivalent to Del Z + Kreider or Miller?
Always tough to gauge with the NYC hype machine and the fact that their young players are constantly pimped on NBC Sports broadcasts. I'd say Ennis + 2013 1st might be viewed similarly by Colorado, especially if we might be picking in the top-8.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:31 PM
  #378
Fire Lindy
Trust the System
 
Fire Lindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Always tough to gauge with the NYC hype machine and the fact that their young players are constantly pimped on NBC Sports broadcasts. I'd say Ennis + 2013 1st might be viewed similarly by Colorado, especially if we might be picking in the top-8.
I would agree with that, think that is similar value. I'd take a potential top 8 pick in the 2013 draft over Kreider.

Fire Lindy is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:37 PM
  #379
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,520
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
Ennis, Sekera, Armia, 1st is likely what Colorado is asking for right now for ROR.....

They are asking for a ton and seeing if a team bites.
There's no way they're asking for that much. That's beyond the realm of what one GM would bother saying to another even to start the proceedings at a high price. Top 4 defenseman on a very good contract, young top 6 forward, recent high draft pick, and what's projecting right now to be a top 5 pick for a player who is basically holding his team hostage for a trade. You can consider that more than what Mike Richards fetched, though I don't want to argue if anyone disagrees. Richards and ROR are comparable types of players, with Richards being far more proven and having achieved with certainty better offensive output. He's also on a favorable long-term contract that's locked up with certainty. ROR provides none of these certainties.

Now, there's a lot of interest in ROR I'm sure and teams may outbid each other to a high price, but Colorado itself has no leverage outside of this bidding as it basically has to move ROR or give in to his demands, which they seem hellbent against.

Rob Paxon is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:39 PM
  #380
Have My Baby Pierre
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Always tough to gauge with the NYC hype machine and the fact that their young players are constantly pimped on NBC Sports broadcasts. I'd say Ennis + 2013 1st might be viewed similarly by Colorado, especially if we might be picking in the top-8.
Darcy doesn't have the balls to offer a deal like that.

Have My Baby Pierre is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:42 PM
  #381
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,024
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foligno and Barnes View Post
I would agree with that, think that is similar value. I'd take a potential top 8 pick in the 2013 draft over Kreider.
One has to wonder just how much Kreider's value has taken a hit. He's quietly had a putrid season in the AHL, scoring 5-7-12 in 34 games with the Whale. At a similar age, Luke Adam even put up 13 pts in 27 games last year in Rochester. The guy's reputation is essentially living off one good season at BC, and a single very good playoff series for the Rangers.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:43 PM
  #382
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,520
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Have My Baby Pierre View Post
Darcy doesn't have the balls to offer a deal like that.
I doubt that's true, it's not very ballsy after all. He traded our most prized prospect last season. I guess you could say it'd be ballsy to trade our 1st overall considering it might well get us a shot at a franchise player at the rate things are going, but I think our team's front office and coaching staff are eternal optimists with a true "win now" mindset, so they (probably rightfully) likely think that pick will end up being a lot lower than it currently projects.

It all comes down to how they view Ennis. Indications from rumors over the summer or going back to last season seemed to indicate Ennis was fairly untouchable but afaik those were rumors. Even if true the bloom could easily be off that rose by now, especially in return for such a young, proven player who fits our needs. I'm not saying they would or even should do this, but I do think Darcy has the balls for it.

Rob Paxon is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:50 PM
  #383
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,024
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackGroundMusic View Post
And to that I say, eff that noise.
Building of RP's comparison of ROR and Mike Richards, keep in mind LA gave up Brayden Schenn at the time he was widely considered to be the #1 prospect in hockey. In addition to Schenn, they gave up a 2nd rounder and a big, third-line forward with second-line upside in Simmonds. Richards is more proven than ROR, and that package reflects that.

Would Colorado really be out of bounds by asking for Grigorenko? I don't think so. While some may perceive him to be a top-5 talent, others--I believe it was the Caps--didn't even rank him in the top-20. There's no guarantee that the guy is a 1C. Heck, he may even bust. I'd think long and hard if Grigorenko was the asking price for Colorado.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:57 PM
  #384
Have My Baby Pierre
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Building of RP's comparison of ROR and Mike Richards, keep in mind LA gave up Brayden Schenn at the time he was widely considered to be the #1 prospect in hockey. In addition to Schenn, they gave up a 2nd rounder and a big, third-line forward with second-line upside in Simmonds. Richards is more proven than ROR, and that package reflects that.

Would Colorado really be out of bounds by asking for Grigorenko? I don't think so. While some may perceive him to be a top-5 talent, others--I believe it was the Caps--didn't even rank him in the top-20. There's no guarantee that the guy is a 1C. Heck, he may even bust. I'd think long and hard if Grigorenko was the asking price for Colorado.
It's also a possibility that they ask for Grigorenko + roster player. Grigorenko is an unproven prospect that had a lot of criticism and ended up dropping in the draft. O'Reilly led his team in points as a 21 year old and was also the best defensive forward on the team. Even if he only has one good year in the NHL, that's enough to make him considerably more valuable than Grigorenko.

And I'm not trying to bash Grigorenko at all, I have very high hopes for the kid but I'm just trying to be realistic about his value, since most Hfboard posters tend to overrate the value of prospects compared to proven NHL players. This is understandable though, it is natural to grow attached to the young players your team drafts and develops.

Have My Baby Pierre is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:59 PM
  #385
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
in response to the mdz and kreider proposal:

Sekera Adam, 2nd

Ennis Mcnabb 4th

Kreider has fallen off the face, Adam has outperformed him. I may be In the very small minority but I would take adam over kreider.

SundherDome is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:03 PM
  #386
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
in response to the mdz and kreider proposal:

Sekera Adam, 2nd

Ennis Mcnabb 4th

Kreider has fallen off the face, Adam has outperformed him. I may be In the very small minority but I would take adam over kreider.
Lol. Please explain why you would take Adam over Kreider.

If Kreider doesn't pan out, he will be a good NHL bottom sixer, if Adam doesn't pan out he will be an AHL'er for the remainder of his career.

Stop Winnin is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:05 PM
  #387
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
in response to the mdz and kreider proposal:

Sekera Adam, 2nd

Ennis Mcnabb 4th

Kreider has fallen off the face, Adam has outperformed him. I may be In the very small minority but I would take adam over kreider.
you would probably be a solo minority

Jame is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:14 PM
  #388
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
Both players are still going on potential as they are 22 and 21 respectively. Adam has put up very good numbers in each level, juniors 15, 66, 49, 90 and the A in his first year 62 before being mishandled by our coaching staff and currently is now at 10 goals, 13 assists in 43 games on a bad team.
Kreider has never put up more than 45 on any level unless you count high school. Kreider is a better skater and better defensively, but as a pure scorer im taking adam. Neither has proven anything at the NHL level and quite frankly that's all that matters, but if im looking at potential again im taking adam.
Like I said I am in the minority here and I know it.

SundherDome is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:16 PM
  #389
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you would probably be a solo minority
And I am okay with that, if Kreider becomes the better player I will more than gladly eat crow.

SundherDome is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:34 PM
  #390
SECRET SQUIRREL
Registered User
 
SECRET SQUIRREL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Clarence
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,174
vCash: 500
I really want Yandle, think he could be a good partner for Myers and hopefully get him back on his game. Has there been anything reported on what the Yotes are looking for tho? (And not that one fan that wanted 3 of our 6 best assets)

SECRET SQUIRREL is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:40 PM
  #391
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
Both players are still going on potential as they are 22 and 21 respectively. Adam has put up very good numbers in each level, juniors 15, 66, 49, 90 and the A in his first year 62 before being mishandled by our coaching staff and currently is now at 10 goals, 13 assists in 43 games on a bad team.
Kreider has never put up more than 45 on any level unless you count high school. Kreider is a better skater and better defensively, but as a pure scorer im taking adam. Neither has proven anything at the NHL level and quite frankly that's all that matters, but if im looking at potential again im taking adam.
Like I said I am in the minority here and I know it.
Do you really think comparing QMJHL scoring and collegiate scoring is relevant?

at the NHL level...Adam has shown a complete lack of any hockey awareness. He has an NHL level shot, and no other discernible NHL talent.

Kreider is a much better hockey talent. He'll have an NHL career for sure... Adam is a questionmark

Jame is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:42 PM
  #392
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 5,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Building of RP's comparison of ROR and Mike Richards, keep in mind LA gave up Brayden Schenn at the time he was widely considered to be the #1 prospect in hockey. In addition to Schenn, they gave up a 2nd rounder and a big, third-line forward with second-line upside in Simmonds. Richards is more proven than ROR, and that package reflects that.

Would Colorado really be out of bounds by asking for Grigorenko? I don't think so. While some may perceive him to be a top-5 talent, others--I believe it was the Caps--didn't even rank him in the top-20. There's no guarantee that the guy is a 1C. Heck, he may even bust. I'd think long and hard if Grigorenko was the asking price for Colorado.
They can ask---but Buffalo wouldnt give that up.

As I have said before ROR or more like Peca than Richards.

Grigorenko's upside far outweighs ROR. If ROR was the missing piece for a cup run then fine....but Sabres arent near a cup run.

The issue in his draft drop with Grigorenko was a question of his willingness to play in the NHL over KHL.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...s-draft-stock/

teams did not want to risk the chance of using a high pick on a player you may not see.

This fear will continue with many of the Russian prospects in the draft.

Djp is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:56 PM
  #393
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Do you really think comparing QMJHL scoring and collegiate scoring is relevant?

at the NHL level...Adam has shown a complete lack of any hockey awareness. He has an NHL level shot, and no other discernible NHL talent.

Kreider is a much better hockey talent. He'll have an NHL career for sure... Adam is a questionmark
I think it is relevant to a certain extent. If you can dominate in the junior ranks or college level there is most likely a reason you do so, im not saying that this theory doesn't have holes as im sure people have torn up junior or college and flopped in the nhl. Adam was handed a once in a lifetime shot of centering the top line of an nhl club. He played poorly in keeping up with the speed of the game and the defensive aspect but as you alluded to he has an NHL shot and I also noticed he has a nose to be around the net. Ruff may have killed the kids confidence or will.
Again im the "solo minority" that thinks this and I am willing to accept the flack that comes with it, but im not looking for a fight

SundherDome is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:56 PM
  #394
drinking bleach irl
p trendy tbh
 
drinking bleach irl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 10,924
vCash: 300
Grigorenko for O'Reilly straight up? I could be persuaded I suppose.

drinking bleach irl is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:57 PM
  #395
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
They can ask---but Buffalo wouldnt give that up.

As I have said before ROR or more like Peca than Richards.

Grigorenko's upside far outweighs ROR. If ROR was the missing piece for a cup run then fine....but Sabres arent near a cup run.

The issue in his draft drop with Grigorenko was a question of his willingness to play in the NHL over KHL.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...s-draft-stock/

teams did not want to risk the chance of using a high pick on a player you may not see.

This fear will continue with many of the Russian prospects in the draft.
this isn't true (regardless of which sense you meant it in...

1. Comparing to the value of a trade made over 10 years ago... pointless
2. Oreilly's game is nothing like Peca's...

Jame is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 09:57 PM
  #396
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
I really want Yandle, think he could be a good partner for Myers and hopefully get him back on his game. Has there been anything reported on what the Yotes are looking for tho? (And not that one fan that wanted 3 of our 6 best assets)
More than we could afford.

SundherDome is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 10:13 PM
  #397
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
in response to the mdz and kreider proposal:

Sekera Adam, 2nd

Ennis Mcnabb 4th

Kreider has fallen off the face, Adam has outperformed him. I may be In the very small minority but I would take adam over kreider.
I wouldn't. If Adam doesn't pan out, he'll be a career AHL'er, maybe. If Kreider doesn't pan out, he can still skate and hit, and could stay in the league as a 4th liner.

Der Jaeger is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 10:16 PM
  #398
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Building of RP's comparison of ROR and Mike Richards, keep in mind LA gave up Brayden Schenn at the time he was widely considered to be the #1 prospect in hockey. In addition to Schenn, they gave up a 2nd rounder and a big, third-line forward with second-line upside in Simmonds. Richards is more proven than ROR, and that package reflects that.

Would Colorado really be out of bounds by asking for Grigorenko? I don't think so. While some may perceive him to be a top-5 talent, others--I believe it was the Caps--didn't even rank him in the top-20. There's no guarantee that the guy is a 1C. Heck, he may even bust. I'd think long and hard if Grigorenko was the asking price for Colorado.
I agree with this. I'd probably make a Grigorenko for O'Reilly trade. If both players maximize their talents, Grigorenko is the better player. But O'Reilly has already achieved a pretty good degree of performance, and even if he gets worse for whatever reason, you still have a 3C, at worst. At worst, Grigorenko busts. I'll take the chances on O'Reilly.

Der Jaeger is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 10:18 PM
  #399
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,520
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I wouldn't. If Adam doesn't pan out, he'll be a career AHL'er, maybe. If Kreider doesn't pan out, he can still skate and hit, and could stay in the league as a 4th liner.
In fairness, people should weigh players' top end + what they're most likely to become. A player's safety net of being a 4th liner isn't particularly valuable in this league if you view another guy's likely high end as being a bit better. That said, I don't agree with the original poster as Kreider is simply more intriguing with his size/speed. I'm not sold on either guy, though.

Rob Paxon is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 10:19 PM
  #400
ImpressedDAHagent
Go sabres
 
ImpressedDAHagent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 7,681
vCash: 500
I just wonder if he is worth 5 million a year. What kind of impact would that have on other players contracts. We already have a few inflated contracts on the team. It's an interesting move but I'd almost rather hold off with what we have. Certainly not giving up armia.

ImpressedDAHagent is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.