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Old
02-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #101
MrBurgundy*
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Apparently Veilleux had some highlight reel snipe today for Wheeling. I wasn't even aware he was back yet from his suspension.

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Apparently Veilleux had some highlight reel snipe today for Wheeling. I wasn't even aware he was back yet from his suspension.

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Keven Veilleux with a big league #snipe on the power play #Nailers tie up
I would have liked to see him make it to our 4th line but i guess thats not gonna happen.

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02-18-2013, 04:31 PM
  #103
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I'm curious, how often do these racial things get blown out of proportion? I've heard a few times players saying something was said and then a fine later, it's nothing again.

Examples...

Krys Barch accused of a reacial slur towards PK Subban
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...ers-recap.html

Barch got 1 game for it and his take on it was this..
Quote:
"It may have been inappropriate, but it was nowhere along the lines of racial slur," Barch said. "The things I said were pretty explicit, maybe not for kids' ears. That's why I really can't repeat what I said, because it wouldn't come across ... my grandma wouldn't want to hear it. Put it that way."
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19206961.html

I think people hear a word and assume it's meant to be racist, when it isn't. I've seen it/heard it before.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/07/sp...ial-slurs.html

Context is also key, words we normally use can be seen as racist in the heat of the moment if we want to see it, or...yeah you know what I mean.

Barch seems no worse for wear about it, he seems to be doing ok with the Devils. I still have some hope for Veilleux, wondering if he ever gets called up to the Baby Pens. He has 6pts in 10gms, Baby Pens could always use more offense.

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02-18-2013, 04:41 PM
  #104
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I thought Barch asked Subban if he slipped on a banana peel after he fell down. Pretty much just a common parlance.

Ok, I guess the second link confirms that.

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:48 PM
  #105
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That's one of things where you'd have to a bit racist to see it as racist.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
The guys I really want to keep, looking at 4-5 years from now are:

Letang
Despres
Dumoulin
Harrington
Morrow
Pouliot
(and I would like to keep Bortuzzo & Engelland until all those other guys are ready, because they will be our "veterans" when Orpik, Martin & Niskanen are gone)
I am different from you in so far as I don't ever want to see a contending Penguins team with this young and inexperienced a D.
Having been to the dance a couple of times does not a veteran make.

Which also means that if we are trading Martin and Orpik at some point for asset management/cap-reasons, I'd want some other vet(s) brought in instead to complement whichever kids make it with us.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:35 AM
  #107
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Maatta's continued struggles offensively are a bit concerning. Even when his team is putting up the goals (London won 8-1 tonight), he's not producing. At one point his offensive pace was destroying last year's pace, but now he's only marginally going to finish with more points.

Harrington's offense is less concerning because, IMO, that's never going to be his strength for the Pens anyway.

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02-19-2013, 12:47 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Maatta's continued struggles offensively are a bit concerning. Even when his team is putting up the goals (London won 8-1 tonight), he's not producing. At one point his offensive pace was destroying last year's pace, but now he's only marginally going to finish with more points.

Harrington's offense is less concerning because, IMO, that's never going to be his strength for the Pens anyway.
No it's not. Maatta's offensive potential has been questioned ever since he came to NA. He just turned 18 six months ago? Yet he has shown that he is able to contribute offensively. If you expect him to be a PPG a player (even on a stacked London team) then you're kidding yourself. If one took that perspective then they'd surely expect that even a player like Harrington would have better numbers....

Keep in mind Maatta's age and his already impressive resume when evaluating him (especially if you're only stat watching). He's doing fine...and he'll be back to anchor London's defense AGAIN next year...

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:57 AM
  #109
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No it's not. Maatta's offensive potential has been questioned ever since he came to NA. He just turned 18 six months ago? Yet he has shown that he is able to contribute offensively. If you expect him to be a PPG a player (even on a stacked London team) then you're kidding yourself. If one took that perspective then they'd surely expect that even a player like Harrington would have better numbers....

Keep in mind Maatta's age and his already impressive resume when evaluating him (especially if you're only stat watching). He's doing fine...and he'll be back to anchor London's defense AGAIN next year...
First, Maatta has scored only 1 goal and something like 6 assists since the time he left for the WJC for Team Finland. That is what I'm referring to with regards to his offensive production being a concern, because that's about 7 points over a 23 or 24 game stretch. He got off to a hot start, with something like 23 points in 24 games before leaving for the WJC, which skews his overall totals.

Second, it's just a concern. I'm not writing him off as a bust or anything. I was just hoping he'd break out this season offensively, especially after his very strong start, and playing on such a strong London team. But instead his numbers have fallen back down to earth.

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02-19-2013, 01:31 AM
  #110
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No one's scoring on defense in London this year, I think it's due a good part to their system. Maatta's still their leading blueliner in that regard by some margin.

They haven't really had a high profile scorer on defense since John Carlson.

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02-19-2013, 02:03 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
No one's scoring on defense in London this year, I think it's due a good part to their system. Maatta's still their leading blueliner in that regard by some margin.

They haven't really had a high profile scorer on defense since John Carlson.
That might be true. Harrington's production is down a lot more than Maatta's this year. I know he's not suppose to be an offensive stud but I didn't think he'd only have half as many points as he did in this many games last year. He's still awesome though.

Didn't Maatta get sick over in Ufa too? I think that could have thrown him off a bit too.

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:09 AM
  #112
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Does someone who watch London know if Maataa is still on the PP 1st? 2nd? One would think that even if the have a system of cycling the puck low or something on 5v5 wich gives the forwards more points, he should still be able to get at least a few more points on the PP

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02-19-2013, 08:40 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Maatta's continued struggles offensively are a bit concerning. Even when his team is putting up the goals (London won 8-1 tonight), he's not producing. At one point his offensive pace was destroying last year's pace, but now he's only marginally going to finish with more points.

Harrington's offense is less concerning because, IMO, that's never going to be his strength for the Pens anyway.
I think we should shoot him.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:36 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
No one's scoring on defense in London this year, I think it's due a good part to their system. Maatta's still their leading blueliner in that regard by some margin.

They haven't really had a high profile scorer on defense since John Carlson.
That's what I was going to post. His numbers don't look great but he's still their highest scoring D this year and was last year too IIRC. The system just may not be friendly to D from a points standpoint.

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I am different from you in so far as I don't ever want to see a contending Penguins team with this young and inexperienced a D.
Having been to the dance a couple of times does not a veteran make.

Which also means that if we are trading Martin and Orpik at some point for asset management/cap-reasons, I'd want some other vet(s) brought in instead to complement whichever kids make it with us.
No, I think we're the same. This is how I see it:

-trade Orpik & Niskanen this summer. (that should bring in some very good assets)
-make Despres & Bortuzzo full time NHLers next year. Keep Martin, Letang, Engelland minimum (and one of Orpik/Martin if we don't trade both). One of Harrington or Dumoulin would take the #6 spot. Harrington may be young, but I promise you, he plays like a veteran; and Dumoulin, who would have been on most teams' starting 6 this year, should be ready to make the jump come next year.

Then, trade Martin the following summer, his last year before he becomes a UFA L(or perhaps even re-sign him if he's better than someone in our starting 6, or if we have to trade one of those guys or one of our prospects below). But assuming PM gets moved, which would also bring in great assets in return...
-Morrow enters the NHL after his 3rd full season is finished, which would also be Pouliot's and Maatta's rookie years.
-When Pouliot is ready, which would be the year after Morrow makes his appearance in PGH at the earliest, then DP makes the jump. If he's not ready after one season in WBS, then he plays in WBS until he's ready to make the jump. During that meantime, we would have Letang, Despres, Dumoulin, Harrington, Bortuzzo and Engelland (who I would like to re-sign after his deal expires for 3 years, give or take), which I still think is a hell of a defense.


So in that (rought scenario), you can see that we are staging guys in over time, and as they become ready. If we have the cap space and opportunity to sign a top-tier UFA veteran Dman someone over the course of that, then perhaps we bring that player in and he may make one of our prospects expedible. But you can still see that we're staging things, certainly not rushing anyone into our line-up, and should be putting our players and team in a reasonable position to succeed, without the downside (which only comes from rusing your players, and I don't see that in my scenario).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Maatta's continued struggles offensively are a bit concerning. Even when his team is putting up the goals (London won 8-1 tonight), he's not producing. At one point his offensive pace was destroying last year's pace, but now he's only marginally going to finish with more points.
Maatta's "perceived" (and apparently not by all) offensive struggles do not concern me in the least. He was always predicted as a solid 2-way defender who *might* have some extra offense in his game. What concerns me more is the consistency of his defensive play and decision making. If he can improve that, he will become a valuable commodity regardless of how many points he puts up; and actually will be more likely to put up points because he'll get more ice time in more situations. We really need to see how much he can grow his game and reliability defensively over the next couple of seasons. We drafted Pouliot to be our "offensive" Dman, and we have Letang, Despres, Morrow and Dumoulin whom are all capable of chipping in.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:58 PM
  #116
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Yeah, I'd have loved to see Maatta figure out how to quarterback a power play and explode for 60+ points this season.. but the fact is that's never been his game and it's not likely to become part of it in the future.

He's like Despres in a lot of ways and as long as he's showing increased responsibility and is improving steadily in all facets I think that's all we can really ask for. He's a good prospect but he fell to the 20s for a reason.. he's not elite.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:06 PM
  #117
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I think he's too busy ironing out the kinks in his defensive game, the moment he's 100% confident in that ability of his, I expect him to break out offensively in his final year in the OHL next year.

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02-19-2013, 09:14 PM
  #118
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Morrow fell to 20 and by most accounts he's a future star.

Despres fell to 30 and you can see that he (at least) has nearly elite physical skills. His penchant for poor decision-making will subside and he will end up being a solid top 4 D-man.

Not worried about Maatta's offensive slump at all. Weird to see him nearly written off by so many people as far as being a Pen someday, but I believe his potential is still very very high.

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02-19-2013, 09:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Morrow fell to 20 and by most accounts he's a future star.

Despres fell to 30 and you can see that he (at least) has nearly elite physical skills. His penchant for poor decision-making will subside and he will end up being a solid top 4 D-man.

Not worried about Maatta's offensive slump at all. Weird to see him nearly written off by so many people as far as being a Pen someday, but I believe his potential is still very very high.
I don't think people are writing him off, we just need to part with prospects/futures to address holes on the current big-league roster, and he's the most long-term and disposable of a very impressive group of defense prospects.

Despres is on the roster and looks great.
Morrow's the PP shot from the point we crave.
Pouliot's a top 10 pick and an elite playmaker.
Dumoulin's a solid all-around d who's almost ready for the show, by most accounts.
Harrington's the best shutdown defenseman in junior.

Maatta...is a jack of all trades and a few years off, even in a best-case scenario.

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02-19-2013, 09:47 PM
  #120
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I agree. I don't think it's a knock on Maatta. He is a quality prospect. He's just the most expendable of the quality D prospects that we have for the reasons RRP gave.

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02-19-2013, 09:56 PM
  #121
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I agree. I don't think it's a knock on Maatta. He is a quality prospect. He's just the most expendable of the quality D prospects that we have for the reasons RRP gave.
Fair enough, but Maatta has just as much of a chance to reach his potential than any of the other D prospects. Additionally, it's very far from a sure thing that all, or even any of them reach their potential. That list could look quite different in a year or two.

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02-19-2013, 10:12 PM
  #122
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Fair enough, but Maatta has just as much of a chance to reach his potential than any of the other D prospects. Additionally, it's very far from a sure thing that all, or even any of them reach their potential. That list could look quite different in a year or two.
Sure. But if we want a player at the deadline, we won't have the luxury of knowing who will pan out and who won't. We can only go by our needs, our projections, and their performance to that point.

Quote:
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I agree. I don't think it's a knock on Maatta. He is a quality prospect. He's just the most expendable of the quality D prospects that we have for the reasons RRP gave.
Absolutely. He'd be the most coveted defense prospect on a lot of teams. But a lot of teams aren't run by Ray Shero, haha.

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02-20-2013, 01:18 AM
  #123
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So in that (rough scenario), you can see that we are staging guys in over time, and as they become ready.

SNIP

...we're staging things, certainly not rushing anyone into our line-up, and should be putting our players and team in a reasonable position to succeed, without the downside (which only comes from rusing your players, and I don't see that in my scenario).
Not really. Not at all. Preposterous .
You are counting on them being ready and arguing that we should trade the established players in expectation that they will be ready.

Ie. this is your opening night 2014-2015 defense.

Despres Letang
Morrow Bortuzzo
Harrington/Dumoulin Engelland

... or some combination thereof.

Other than Letang and Engelland, the most NHL experienced D-man there would be Simon Despres, who will have just turned 23 by that time and will have - if he plays every game from now on - less than two full NHL seasons behind him. Remember that when we won the cup, Letang was 22 and was our 6th D-man in the playoffs.

It is just not going to go down like that. Despite the salivating worthy dreams we can have about the top6 with that much cap-room freed up, I trust that you can see this to be a mirage also. I could maybe understand it with Martin or Brooks still there. But I'd likely still be uncomfortable.

From an asset management point of view I do understand dealing Martin and Orpik at a high, but if we do we that we absolutely need to bring in other NHL-playoff proven defenders instead.

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:13 AM
  #124
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I don't think people are writing him off, we just need to part with prospects/futures to address holes on the current big-league roster, and he's the most long-term and disposable of a very impressive group of defense prospects.

Despres is on the roster and looks great.
Morrow's the PP shot from the point we crave.
Pouliot's a top 10 pick and an elite playmaker.
Dumoulin's a solid all-around d who's almost ready for the show, by most accounts.
Harrington's the best shutdown defenseman in junior.

Maatta...is a jack of all trades and a few years off, even in a best-case scenario.
You forgot Samuelsson, a guy that most people wrote off and then comes in this season and is the most consistent guy in WBS. He's starting to show that he could some day be an NHL'er.

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02-20-2013, 02:17 AM
  #125
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You forgot Samuelsson, a guy that most people wrote off and then comes in this season and is the most consistent guy in WBS. He's starting to show that he could some day be an NHL'er.
I didn't forget him, he's just not as highly regarded as the other 6.

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