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MPS vs Jordan Schroeder

View Poll Results: MPS vs Jordan Schroeder
MPS 115 45.82%
Jordan Schroeder 136 54.18%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:22 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
All fair points. I don't think it's quite as simple as just competing with the players in your position since I was mainly focusing on the massive amount of powerplay time Schroeder has received. If you're a good offensive player, they'll find a spot on the ice to stick you on the PP. For example. Sometimes the Oilers will put Belanger out on the PP just to win the face off. Suddenly Gagner finds himself playing the point. However, I agree with the main point you were making.

The only point I was trying to make was that people just shouldn't simplify it to "Schroeder is trying to make the CANUCKS while Paajarvi is trying to make the OILERS"...because it's really not that simple. The Canucks might be a much better team but that doesn't mean every player capable to finding a job on their team would a lock to make the Oilers...like some are suggesting. Paajarvi is battling for ice time right now and is finding a way to get into the line up because of his defensive play. If Schroeder is an Oiler, he's likely in the AHL waiting for an injury to occur in the top 6.

Arcobello is an offensive AHL player. He got into a game this year when RNH needed a night off. That probably would have been the one and only game Schroeder would have played for the Oilers this season if he was in their system.
I am no expert on the Oilers (although have enjoyed watching all their games when they don't conflict with Canuck ones ) so I'll take your word for it. The Canucks are implementing a more offensively-focused third line than most, and although they all have a two way game (Raymond/Schroeder/Hansen) they are expected to contribute offensive moreso than most third lines. Consodering that, I could see how on many teams he would be a top 6 or AHL type player.

Just a note about the PP. I've been extremely impressed with him on the power play. Begins the year with Raymond on the second unit and has worked his way to sitting time between the first and second unit and often bumping burrows on the first.

Im happy for MPS and that although he has struggled he seized the oppertunity (injury in warmup or something I believe) and played strong enough to keep his spot imo. We can jus hope he keeps his play consistent.

I completely agree that players that are completely separate in terms of position, style and development shouldn't be compared and the argument of whether or not they make the team should be fairly irrelevant. Kassian should really be the one being compared because although they still play different styles, they are a lot more similar than Jordan and Magnus

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:09 PM
  #127
Le Magnifique 66
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Jordan Schroeder

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02-18-2013, 10:29 PM
  #128
Pekka Rinne
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Probably not well, I don't see who he would beat out for a spot.

He's not consistently in the line-up for the Oilers, who would he beat out in our line-up? Might play on the 4th now and then.
Thats the biggest load ever. Paajarvi isnt consistently in the line up as much as Schroeder is, both teams have played 14 games, Paajarvi: 11, Schroeder: 12 games. Barely a difference.

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02-18-2013, 10:35 PM
  #129
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Pekka Rinne View Post
Thats the biggest load ever. Paajarvi isnt consistently in the line up as much as Schroeder is, both teams have played 14 games, Paajarvi: 11, Schroeder: 12 games. Barely a difference.
It's not about that. Obviously you don't understand the context of my post.

Here are the wing positions when healthy:

Daniel - Burrows
Booth - Kassian
Raymond - Hansen
Higgins - Volpatti
Weise

Not sure where Paajarvi fits, especially if he isn't a regular on the Oilers. Perhaps in Volpatti's spot, but he has been playing great, and that would take away alot of toughness out of our line-up. Which doesn't help. Volpatti suits that role better for us. He wouldn't fit in our line-up.

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02-18-2013, 10:54 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
you would think that someone that is a consistent scorer a has a good package of skills, they would be able to earns a roster spot? It is debatable because MPS has regressed
No he hasn't, he's just gotten less ice time with less offensive players. Paajarvi is consitently becoming more confident with the physical aspect of the NA game, there is no doubt he has had to adjust from the type of game he grew up playing in Europe. He's a passer first (and a good one) so he's had trouble making decisions on what to do with the puck while rushing into the zone, he's gotten away from it more and more (instead driving the net now) but early on he was throwing weak outside wristers to the net where in Europe he was able to use the extra space to slow it down and set up a pass. With more aggressive dmen and less space to work with he was making poor decisions offensively, although he has always had a solid Corsi as he's excellent at pushing the puck up the ice and at getting back defensively (sometimes to a fault). Paajarvi also grew up playing defense until his mid teens so i think that's been a bit of an adjustment. I think people are way to quick to write off a guy who's all of 21, he's clearly still developing and getting better with the NA game. He;s been driving the net very well lately and is starting to become a quality cycler of the puck with his size+speed+passing.

Neither player is a great bet to be a quality top 6 guy (although it's not crazy as both are still young, and Paajarvi especially has shown the potential), but Paajarvi has a skillset that will translate much much better to a 3rd line role IMO. There is no question Paajarvi has been the much more accomplished player every single season of their careers, with this year perhaps being the 1st where Schroeder may have an argument, and the sample size is of course small. I appreciate the attempt at an honest debate.


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02-18-2013, 10:58 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To be fair, Schroeder's time in the AHL was spent playing largely with scrubs, and as a primary playmaker, his point production took a hit due to lack of finishers.

MPS has better physical tools, but I don't know about skills. Schroeder has much better vision and is also extremely fast as well as playing a 200-foot game.
Unless you consider Lander-Hartikainen superstars i doubt Paajarvi has been regularly playing with much better players. Hartikainen is a very solid young player but i'm sure Schroeder has had more help then you are suggesting. Who has his regular linemates been?

Schroeder might have slightly better vision (and considering his package of skills he certainly would need to in order to have even a chance in this comp.) but you should be aware that Paajarvi is a quality passer it's quite certainly his forte offensively, finishing has always been the question mark (which i think a more aggressive net crashing style would certainly help remedy, and that's exactly what he's been developing). As for speed i highly doubt he's as fast as Paajarvi, and speed+size is a killer combo which enhances the value of Paajarvi's skating. As for defense Paajarvi is uber defensive, it's been an issue at times IMO, as a former dman you can see he has the tendency to cheat for defense and sometimes leave IMO the offensive zone premature. Paajarvi is a regular PKer and is most certainly a two way player as well, and this isn't a recent development. Paajarvi could be an elite checker if the offense doesn't come, i wouldn't be too confident saying that about Schroeder. Thanks for an honest rebuttal, i'm curious to see the follow up.


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Old
02-18-2013, 11:33 PM
  #132
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don't exactly know who his linemates were in Chicago, he wasn't playing with Kassian and I'm pretty sure he was with Sterling and maybe Rodin.

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02-18-2013, 11:43 PM
  #133
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MPS is being bumped up to the 2nd line with Gagner and Hemsky so maybe another round of round round we go will happen next week.

Minus 2 and minus 1 in Jordans last two games, he better watch out with Viggy watching.

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02-18-2013, 11:59 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
MPS is being bumped up to the 2nd line with Gagner and Hemsky so maybe another round of round round we go will happen next week.

Minus 2 and minus 1 in Jordans last two games, he better watch out with Viggy watching.
Kesler is a minus 3 over his last two games as well, probably because they are playing both offensice and defensive minutes in the two games that we lost. AV has had nothing but praise for Jordan so far. It's Kassian that has been stinking up the joint. Schroeder's linemates (raymond and schroeder) got bumped up to Kesler's line for a lot of last game because Higgins and Kassian were playing poorly and it's hard to put a rookie centre between two slumping players and expect him to preform, especially since neither of his wingers are very good defensively. Also if they were going to punish Schroeder they wouldn't of waived Ebbett, there's no one else now to play his role

Happy for MPS, him, Harti and Smid are my favourite Oilers.

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02-19-2013, 12:04 AM
  #135
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I voted Schroder but this could go either way. I think Paajarvi has a higher ceiling just based on the physical package of size, world class skating and skill but Schroder in my opinion is more likely to reach his potential. Paajarvi has been playing well lately and says his confidence is sky high so who knows.

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02-19-2013, 12:31 AM
  #136
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I love what I have seen of Paajarvi this season, really embraces his role and his speed is such an awesome weapon. Easy pick for me but I haven't seen much of Schroeder.

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02-19-2013, 01:00 AM
  #137
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I've been very impressed with Schroeder, thus far.

My vote goes to him.

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02-19-2013, 01:15 AM
  #138
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It's funny that 90% of the people saying MPS are from Edmonton. Schroeder for anyone without homer goggles.

Also, for the Oilers fans saying he's bad defensively, just no.

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02-19-2013, 01:21 AM
  #139
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People are not aware that Jordan Schroeder is actually a highly skilled player, that can play on both ends of the rink, on any given day. He was highly skilled player heading into his draft. He was one of the higher ranked players during the 2009 year. His strengths include, his speed, puck control, vision, phsyical game,and play making skills. He is very good and throwing the puck aroud and hitting his teamates on the tape. He does have a nice snap shot, but of course, we all know, hes a pass first player. In college and for team usa world juniors he played on the number power play and penalty kill unit during the 2010 world juniors. He is the highest leading point getter in for USA in their history at the world Juniors. Jordan Schroeder was also on the Canucks 2nd line powerplay unit, during this time.

Speaking of MPS vs Schroeder, these 2 players were the fastest skating players in that draft, during the physical testing prior to the draft.

Naturally, Schroeder is already a better 2way player then MPS. On top of that, Schroeder is probably a better play maker then MPS. I've seen, MPS played a few times already, I've also seen Schroeder quite a bit, and I will tell you right now, Jordan Schroeder is a better player at this point then MPS. MPS will dominate in the SEL no problem. He's someone that will thrive in the SEL or the KHL But not the NHL. He hasn't impressed me one bit. He scored the goal on Saturday night, but he was invisable out there. The only advantage he has right now, his his size. If he was a Canuck draft pick and we selected him 10th overall, only to have him play on our 3rd line right now, I'd be greatly disappointed. As the commentator said on Saturday night, "Goal scorer turned checker." That's not something I will like to hear. Of course Schroeder is no sure thing either. Not sure how it will play out if he plays on the bottom 6.

here comes Hardyvan123........


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02-19-2013, 01:48 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by lawrence View Post
People are not aware that Jordan Schroeder is actually a highly skilled player, that can play on both ends of the rink, on any given day. He was highly skilled player heading into his draft. He was one of the higher ranked players during the 2009 year. His strengths include, his speed, puck control, vision, phsyical game,and play making skills. He is very good and throwing the puck aroud and hitting his teamates on the tape. He does have a nice snap shot, but of course, we all know, hes a pass first player. In college and for team usa world juniors he played on the number power play and penalty kill unit during the 2010 world juniors. He is the highest leading point getter in for USA in their history at the world Juniors. Jordan Schroeder was also on the Canucks 2nd line powerplay unit, during this time.

Speaking of MPS vs Schroeder, these 2 players were the fastest skating players in that draft, during the physical testing prior to the draft.

Naturally, Schroeder is already a better 2way player then MPS. On top of that, Schroeder is probably a better play maker then MPS. I've seen, MPS played a few times already, I've also seen Schroeder quite a bit, and I will tell you right now, Jordan Schroeder is a better player at this point then MPS. MPS will dominate in the SEL no problem. He's someone that will thrive in the SEL or the KHL But not the NHL. He hasn't impressed me one bit. He scored the goal on Saturday night, but he was invisable out there. The only advantage he has right now, his his size. If he was a Canuck draft pick and we selected him 10th overall, only to have him play on our 3rd line right now, I'd be greatly disappointed. As the commentator said on Saturday night, "Goal scorer turned checker." That's not something I will like to hear. Of course Schroeder is no sure thing either. Not sure how it will play out if he plays on the bottom 6.

here comes Hardyvan123........
Well it's a role he had to take on when the top 6 wings are full of a couple guys named Hemsky, Yakupov, Eberle and Hall.

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02-19-2013, 01:58 AM
  #141
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Well it's a role he had to take on when the top 6 wings are full of a couple guys named Hemsky, Yakupov, Eberle and Hall.
Well thats something the OIlers coaching staff needs to address then.

Cause when the Canucks had Hodgson who had a 3rd line role to take when he was behind Kesler and SEdin. they didn't try to make him a "goal scorer turned checker" when he was on the 3rd line. They still told him to play his game while he was on the 3rd line, generate offence, (we wanted him to develope in the NHL even though it was 12-13 minutes a game vs 20 minutes in the AHL) Feel free to google Hodgsons stats last year. And yes, those are his stats on the 3rd line.

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02-19-2013, 02:15 AM
  #142
Sergei Shirokov
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Unless you consider Lander-Hartikainen superstars i doubt Paajarvi has been regularly playing with much better players. Hartikainen is a very solid young player but i'm sure Schroeder has had more help then you are suggesting. Who has his regular linemates been?

Schroeder might have slightly better vision (and considering his package of skills he certainly would need to in order to have even a chance in this comp.) but you should be aware that Paajarvi is a quality passer it's quite certainly his forte offensively, finishing has always been the question mark (which i think a more aggressive net crashing style would certainly help remedy, and that's exactly what he's been developing). As for speed i highly doubt he's as fast as Paajarvi, and speed+size is a killer combo which enhances the value of Paajarvi's skating. As for defense Paajarvi is uber defensive, it's been an issue at times IMO, as a former dman you can see he has the tendency to cheat for defense and sometimes leave IMO the offensive zone premature. Paajarvi is a regular PKer and is most certainly a two way player as well, and this isn't a recent development. Paajarvi could be an elite checker if the offense doesn't come, i wouldn't be too confident saying that about Schroeder. Thanks for an honest rebuttal, i'm curious to see the follow up.
I guess you don't know how good Schroeder is defensively. For pure instincts I would say they are pretty close and Schroeder is the better playmaker and offensive player, he dishes off cross ice saucer pass from blue line to blue line like its NBD, and has amazing anticipation, the puck is on his stick and off it with a crisp tape to tape pass before anyone can check him. Also has a nice wrister.

Paajarvi has all the advantages that come with his size, then speed wise they are even, and Schroeder is very fast and accelerates at a high rate.

Schroeder doesn't need to be a checker unlike Paajarvi, he has the skills to be a top 6 center.

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02-19-2013, 02:24 AM
  #143
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In terms of pure value I'd say both players are pretty similar. In terms of what they bring to the team, Oilers value Paajarvi more because they already have an abundance of smaller, skilled players, and Paajarvi is a big, strong, fast, two way forward who is already extremely good defensively and has become a beast along the boards this season, at only 21 years old.

Vancouver probably values Schroeder more, because they're lacking one of those 'pure skill' players, and he can round out their top 6 or top 9.

I'm an Oilers fan so I take Paajarvi. I think it up for grabs who GM's would take, due to what they need.

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02-19-2013, 04:49 AM
  #144
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02-19-2013, 10:23 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I guess you don't know how good Schroeder is defensively. For pure instincts I would say they are pretty close and Schroeder is the better playmaker and offensive player, he dishes off cross ice saucer pass from blue line to blue line like its NBD, and has amazing anticipation, the puck is on his stick and off it with a crisp tape to tape pass before anyone can check him. Also has a nice wrister.

Paajarvi has all the advantages that come with his size, then speed wise they are even, and Schroeder is very fast and accelerates at a high rate.

Schroeder doesn't need to be a checker unlike Paajarvi, he has the skills to be a top 6 center.
What's the purpose of these comments? Paajarvi is a very defensive player, all i said is i doubt Schroeder is ahead in that regard i didn't even allude to Paajarvi being better in that regard. As for going forward i highly doubt Schroeder becomes an elite shutdown player, it's rare for a player of his stature (how many small shutdown centers can you name? Marchant was one but there isn't many) and he certainly hasn't been given the role as of yet (he's a rookie so i know why but considering the comments on here i think many people have the wrong impression). But if you must know this is his role so far and it's not anything special in the slightest:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

Not anywhere near being a defensive ace. Defense hasn't been his calling card (up until last year apparently) so i think it's a little much to expect it's going to go from a weaknesses to an elite level, unlike Paajarvi who has a very strong pedigree and skillset in that regard.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

Already this season we can see Paajarvi has faced much more difficult comp. to go with a job on the PK unit, clearly he is well ahead of Schroeder in defensive development (there i said it) and he's always had the ceiling of an elite checker. Get a grip bud.

Also for a guy with such "amazing" vision and a shot he sure as **** doesn't score much. Clearly you are vastly overrating his skills on both sides of the puck (shouldn't there be evidence of all these amazing skills?). My biggest reason for taking Paajarvi over Schroeder is that year to year Paajarvi has clearly typically out performed him, is far bigger, has more defensive pedigree. I don't think that's a crazy position. Even if we call speed even (i don't believe that) again Paajarvi's size makes him the much more explosive skater.

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02-19-2013, 10:27 AM
  #146
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Right now I'd say it's Schroeder. He's playing an important role on a very good team. MPS could very well improve his play and this could change but right now I think it's Schroeder by a bit.

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02-19-2013, 10:29 AM
  #147
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Right now it is Schroeder. He's playing an important role on a very good team. MPS could very well improve his play and this could change but right now I think it's Schroeder by a bit.
What role? And i don't think it should be held against Paajarvi that Schroeder plays for a team with elite goaltending and defense, Vancouver would still be very good without Schroeder. Schroeder is a depth player getting minutes with quality NHLer's he's certainly not playing an important checking role against quality comp.

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02-19-2013, 10:32 AM
  #148
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What role? And i don't think it should be held against Paajarvi that Schroeder plays for a team with elite goaltending and defense. Schroeder is a depth player getting minutes with quality NHLer's he's certainly not playing an important checking role against quality comp.
A center on one of the deeper top 9's in the league. Our coach is notorious for not trusting young players in that role unless they prove that they can play at both ends of the ice. I agree that MPS brings a skillset that should keep him in the NHL. I'd also say that it's no coincidence that Mason Raymond is off to his best start in years as a winger with Schroeder. As I said, I think it's close and it could change. A couple of years ago it would have clearly been MPS but now I'd give the edge to Schroeder. I think the poll results show it's pretty close.


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02-19-2013, 02:40 PM
  #149
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What role? And i don't think it should be held against Paajarvi that Schroeder plays for a team with elite goaltending and defense, Vancouver would still be very good without Schroeder. Schroeder is a depth player getting minutes with quality NHLer's he's certainly not playing an important checking role against quality comp.
And we were 8-2-2 (or was it 6-2-2?) without Kesler? Does that mean that he doesn't play an important role? Schroeder has been playing 3rd line centre on a top level team, and it preforming quite well. You would think that MPS wouldn't of been the 13th forward if his defense is as good as you are claiming it to be.

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02-19-2013, 03:41 PM
  #150
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You would think that MPS wouldn't of been the 13th forward if his defense is as good as you are claiming it to be.

he's not sitting because of his performance. There's basically a few guys that he's got to compete with for a spot on the roster... Petrell is one of the teams most reliable PKers, with Horcoff out this makes Petrell quite valuable to the oilers coaches, but 5 on 5 there's no doubt who the better player is... Hartikainen they like because he's the big strong player down low and around the net who creates room for linemates, I think these two are very close in the coaches mind but for the moment they like the brute strength of Hartikainen more. Then there is Ryan Smyth who is not really playing better than Pajaarvi either but he's one of the few veterans on a very young team and that's something that is tough for a young winger to over come. We might see Yakupov sit in favour of Pajaarvi at some point but a guy with that kind of offense in him and a first overall pick it's hard to take out of the lineup too.

It's cute that you try and simplify it like you do "oh well if he was good he'd be playing", but everyone who is paying attention knows it's more complicated than that. Hell most observers feel it's not right that Pajaarvi is the first one to sit based on how he has played.

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