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Tyler Seguin

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:12 PM
  #51
The Bored Man
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Two persistent myths about Seguin that I find irritating:

1. He's a centre (third year in the league as a RW)
2. He's a budding defensive ace (like nearly every highly-touted Canadian centre for some reason)

A terrific talent for sure, but not exactly the type of player that some folks seem to think he is.

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:17 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Two persistent myths about Seguin that I find irritating:

1. He's a centre (third year in the league as a RW)
2. He's a budding defensive ace (like nearly every highly-touted Canadian centre for some reason)

A terrific talent for sure, but not exactly the type of player that some folks seem to think he is.
As an Oiler fan I would offer Eberle plus a pick or another player/prospect something like Hartikainen
I notice now he is not playing center , why ? Is it because Boston is deep at Center ? Or is he not cut out to playing there at the NHL level . He would only be of interest if he can play center


Last edited by supert: 02-18-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old
02-18-2013, 01:51 PM
  #53
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a 21 year old with 3 goals / 8 points in 13 games and a team leading plus 9 with 17:30 seconds icetime = struggling

a 25 year old with 2 goals / 11 points in 15 games with 20:28 icetime = working on a 1A season

Gotta love logic

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:52 PM
  #54
dredeye
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
So did Tomas Kaberle...

4 years later and Kessel is still the best player in the trade.

Kessel got less on his second contract than Seguin to boot.
The contract he signed 3 years ago that brings him to ufa status? Who would have thought that contracts go up since then. BTW he has a back loaded contract and is actually paid 6 million this year same as last. So in pure salary he actually only made less then Seguin's new deal for one season. Kaberle helped them win the cup so I'm not really sure what's so funny about that.

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Old
02-18-2013, 02:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
As an Oiler fan I would offer Eberle plus a pick or another player/prospect something like Hartikainen
I notice now he is not playing center , why ? Is it because Boston is deep at Center ? Or is he not cut out to playing there at the NHL level . He would only be of interest if he can play center
When we drafted Seguin, we had Savard, Krejci, and Bergeron (for starters) down the middle. Good luck, kid.

We put him at RW since that was the only place he was fit, and he's done great. Neither Krejci, Seguin, or Bergeron (his role is a looooot bigger offensively since Savard has gone,) are 3rd line centers, and with Seguin at center we have a huge RW void in our top-6. Peverley is great but he's much more efficent and effective on the 3rd line.

He played a couple of games at C when Krejci was injured and looked fine. But he's so young and it gives him a lot more responsibility, especially when he's played RW for two years. We could move him to C and he would do just fine, but why would we? We have a two #1 centers, Krejci and Bergeron, Kelly is definitely one of the better #3Cs, and Campbell is also up there with the best 4th line C's. He fits better at RW, so why would he move him? Just don't ask that to the "Trade Krejci" brigade on our board...

If we ever traded him and the team who acquired him wanted him to be the 1st/2nd line center, he would do fine. You can only get better at faceoffs and he's learned a lot defensively.

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Old
02-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
a 21 year old with 3 goals / 8 points in 13 games and a team leading plus 9 with 17:30 seconds icetime = struggling

a 25 year old with 2 goals / 11 points in 15 games with 20:28 icetime = working on a 1A season

Gotta love logic
Exactly. 3 minutes a game is a lot more ice time.

Saying Kessel is still the best player 4 years later is irrelevant when comparing a 25 year old who is very good in his own right to a just turned 21 year old, a 20 year old and a 19 year old.

Seguin and Kessel had identical PP/20 minutes last year. Things not taken into account are linemates which favors Segs but PP time which greatly favors Phat Phil.

Segs first 5 or so games were terrible but hes picked it up big time. He has been in a bit of a slump still but hes been improving his board game, skating hard on the back check and getting chances. The points will come.

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Old
02-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #57
The Dangley One
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Two persistent myths about Seguin that I find irritating:

1. He's a centre (third year in the league as a RW)
2. He's a budding defensive ace (like nearly every highly-touted Canadian centre for some reason)

A terrific talent for sure, but not exactly the type of player that some folks seem to think he is.
I don't remember him ever being scouted as a potential selke candidate in the making

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:27 PM
  #58
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Some needs to understant there's four thing that have an impact on players production.

The player himself
Time on ice (and quality of it, pp vs pk)
Quality of linemate
System your coach's using


Playing in Boston boost your +/- not your stat. Coaches play everybody, and they are in a defense first system. Look at players who change adress to confirm it. Horton had better stat in Florida, Peverly in Atlanta, Kaberle in Toronto, Wheeler is now doing better in Winnipeg, Ryder in Dallas, etc.

Kessel won't have last year stat this year and that as nothing to do with him being a lesser player. Last year he was playing in Wilson offense first system, this year he's playing in Carlyle more defensive scheme, that's all.

Yep, quality of linemate is important, but there's other factors as important.

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
a 21 year old with 3 goals / 8 points in 13 games and a team leading plus 9 with 17:30 seconds icetime = struggling

a 25 year old with 2 goals / 11 points in 15 games with 20:28 icetime = working on a 1A season

Gotta love logic
Like to see how many points Seguin would have if he played with VanRiemsdyk + Bozak.

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
He is a talented player. Nobody is denying that. He is also incredibly overrated, and his style is so similar to Kessel that is is actually a little creepy. He just doesn't have the same shot. Or speed. Or passing ability for that matter.
what ever helps you sleep at night.....

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:41 PM
  #61
Antropovsky
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Originally Posted by reffree View Post
Some needs to understant there's four thing that have an impact on players production.

The player himself
Time on ice (and quality of it, pp vs pk)
Quality of linemate
System your coach's using


Playing in Boston boost your +/- not your stat. Coaches play everybody, and they are in a defense first system. Look at players who change adress to confirm it. Horton had better stat in Florida, Peverly in Atlanta, Kaberle in Toronto, Wheeler is now doing better in Winnipeg, Ryder in Dallas, etc.

Kessel won't have last year stat this year and that as nothing to do with him being a lesser player. Last year he was playing in Wilson offense first system, this year he's playing in Carlyle more defensive scheme, that's all.

Yep, quality of linemate is important, but there's other factors as important.
Hard to judge Kessel on point production right now, his line mates are Bozak and Vanriemsdyk, career highs are 47 points and 40 points respectfully. With Bozak's career high being while being on Kessel and Lupul's line, which nothing against Bozak, is a line that is a little over is head.

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:42 PM
  #62
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He's also getting 17 prime minutes a night.

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Old
02-18-2013, 03:54 PM
  #63
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Oh hey let's ignore the fact that Seguin plays with Bergeron and Marchand, and an overall solid team, let's just forget that, and that Kessel has been playing on a bottom feeder single handedly keeping the team afloat, let's ignore that too.

I just knew Kessel would get brought up in this kind of thread. It's just one thing after another with Kessel.

Kessel sucks because he won't have Savard to feed him. Boom 30 goals.

Kessel sucks because Bozak is his center and won't get goals. Boom 30 goals.

Kessel sucks because he's fat and ugly, never seen so much bitterness for a player that doesn't even deserve it.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:46 PM
  #64
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Leafs don't want to get softer. Seguin has been more scared of contact than Kessel this year.

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:57 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Leafs don't want to get softer. Seguin has been more scared of contact than Kessel this year.
Most of the leaf and oil fans hate on Seguin is pretty funny, not sure if you're being stupid on purpose or if its jealousy.

Kessel is a very good goal scorer period nothing more (nothing wrong with that ), Seguin not only is close to being equal to Kessel in scoring he also IS already a more complete player.

Oil fans look for flaws to justify Hall, end of story. Lets look back at this again in 5 years to see how this shakes out. I think Seguin will still be in the NHL

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:17 PM
  #66
cyris
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Originally Posted by 4ORRBRUIN View Post
Most of the leaf and oil fans hate on Seguin is pretty funny, not sure if you're being stupid on purpose or if its jealousy.

Kessel is a very good goal scorer period nothing more (nothing wrong with that ), Seguin not only is close to being equal to Kessel in scoring he also IS already a more complete player.

Oil fans look for flaws to justify Hall, end of story. Lets look back at this again in 5 years to see how this shakes out. I think Seguin will still be in the NHL
He isnt the same player he was in Boston. His playmaking has improved dramatically. And while he will never be confused with a selkie winner he isnt a defensive liability anymore.

Why cant we have a thread about Kessel or Seguin with out it turning into a flame war about the other btw?
All a troll has to do is start a thread about one of them and sit back and watch the flame war erupt.

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:26 PM
  #67
4ORRBRUIN
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He isnt the same player he was in Boston. His playmaking has improved dramatically. And while he will never be confused with a selkie winner he isnt a defensive liability anymore.

Why cant we have a thread about Kessel or Seguin with out it turning into a flame war about the other btw?
All a troll has to do is start a thread about one of them and sit back and watch the flame war erupt.
Agree, Its getting real old.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:38 PM
  #68
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Leafs don't want to get softer. Seguin has been more scared of contact than Kessel this year.
Ummmmmm yeaaaaah.

Ok.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:43 PM
  #69
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Something around Seguin for Iginla

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:13 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by 4ORRBRUIN View Post
Most of the leaf and oil fans hate on Seguin is pretty funny, not sure if you're being stupid on purpose or if its jealousy.

Kessel is a very good goal scorer period nothing more (nothing wrong with that ), Seguin not only is close to being equal to Kessel in scoring he also IS already a more complete player.

Oil fans look for flaws to justify Hall, end of story. Lets look back at this again in 5 years to see how this shakes out. I think Seguin will still be in the NHL
I take it you haven't watched Kessel much this season.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by 4ORRBRUIN View Post
Oil fans look for flaws to justify Hall, end of story. Lets look back at this again in 5 years to see how this shakes out. I think Seguin will still be in the NHL
Both are great young talents, but I could care less if Seguin were leading the league in scoring right now, Hall was the player we needed because of his style of play, the same style of play that has allowed him to take over games like he has in the past 2. The power part of his game is really starting to emerge. Combine that with his speed and he is a forechecking nightmare for Dmen. So I think we're fine with letting Hall's play justify 1st overall rather than flaws in those taken after him.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:16 PM
  #72
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I really don't understand why Boston would consider trading Seguin for anything but an extreme over payment. He's exactly what they need, someone with elite offensive potential.

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Something around Seguin for Iginla
Lol, Iginla isn't going to bring back a player with the potential of Seguin.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:07 AM
  #73
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R.O'R + avs 1st 2014

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:58 AM
  #74
Cory Trevor
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Would something along the lines of Matt Duchene, David Jones and Tyson Barrie/2nd rnd pick be close for Seguin?
Done. Where do I sing?

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:00 AM
  #75
Cory Trevor
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R.O'R + avs 1st 2014
No desire for ROR right now. I'd rather something centered around Duchene with the rest worked out however it is viewed in terms of value.

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