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Flames - Don't rebuild...reload

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:04 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Declining now, after his season last year, seems like one of the biggest drop offs ever.
Not out of the realm of possibilities. Did I mention he's 36?

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02-19-2013, 12:04 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
what would flames fans want from anaheim for iginla if they were to move him? he'd be great w/getzlaf and perry
Start with Etem/Palmieri

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02-19-2013, 12:05 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Not out of the realm of possibilities. Did I mention he's 36?
So which is more likely, one of the greatest drop offs ever or a usual slow start?

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02-19-2013, 12:10 AM
  #79
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I really think Calgary missed their window. They should have traded Kipper and Iggy when they had significant value. This is a strong draft year and I don't see any teams moving their first for either player to be honest. The season is short and could influence a teams trade behaviour. One moment they are top of the division and the next they are out of the playoffs. One year of Iggy for a guy like Ryan Pulock would be disastrous. Not only that, but he's definitely a rental with the cap going down. I don't see too many contenders with 8 mill in cap space with it going down. Their are just too many factors going against the flames.

I use to be jealous of some of their roster but I can't say that's the case anymore. You still have some decent pieces but I don't know how they contend without Iggy and Kipper in the future.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:23 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
So which is more likely, one of the greatest drop offs ever or a usual slow start?
Apparently you fail to see the difference between the terms "Drop off" and "Decline".

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02-19-2013, 12:29 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by thehudlinator View Post
so which is more likely, one of the greatest drop offs ever or a usual slow start?
.870 .921 .906 .920 .903 .906

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02-19-2013, 12:36 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Apparently you fail to see the difference between the terms "Drop off" and "Decline".
No he is declining no doubt but to say he is going to average a SV% of .87 is stupid

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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
.870 .921 .906 .920 .903 .906
so which one is the anomaly?

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02-19-2013, 12:48 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Declining now, after his season last year, seems like one of the biggest drop offs ever.
Isn't he a notoriously slow starter every season though? Or am I thinking of someone else?

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:56 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Isn't he a notoriously slow starter every season though? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Yes he is.

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02-19-2013, 02:16 AM
  #85
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I see what the OP is getting at... He must be an Oilers fan and they love seeing Calgary finish 9th every year and getting the middle of the pack draft pick. Well player sir well played

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02-19-2013, 05:35 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
No he is declining no doubt but to say he is going to average a SV% of .87 is stupid



so which one is the anomaly?
It would be an anomaly if he were 26, not 36. Even if Kipper got that percentage up to say, a .905 SV%, that's still well below that of an average starter in this league. GM's don't trade for what a guy did a few years ago, they trade for what the guy can do now. How many contending teams need a number one goalie anyways? I just can't see teams lining up and willing to hand over first round picks and good prospects for an aging goalie banking on him just having a slow start.

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02-19-2013, 05:56 AM
  #87
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Well Kipper's out long-term, so that's moot.

J-Bo isn't regarded as a good top-pairing d-man anymore, so I doubt you'd get an "A" prospect and a 1st. Maybe a late 1st and a formerly good prospect who needs a change of scenery.

Iginla...yeah, I'd say the asking price is fair.

Could probably get a useful youngish (mid-late 20s) d-man or a guy like Clowe (useful 2nd liner on or near the end of a contract) and a mid round pick for Tanguay though.

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02-19-2013, 07:01 AM
  #88
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What would Calgary want for Tanguay or Cammalleri (retaining some of his salary)? I'd inquire about Glencross but the price is lightly too high.

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02-19-2013, 07:58 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Flamesjustwin View Post
The Wings are in a worse spot than the Flames. Didn't we just kick your butt a few games ago?
No they most certainly are NOT.

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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Detroit is a better team than Calgary currently, and the prospect pools between the two aren't even close. Try again.
This and I'm an AVS fan agreeing with a wings fan.

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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
The Flames are in the worst spot of any team in the NHL right now, and have been for some time. You guys really don't have anything in terms of a prospect pool outside of Baertschi/Jankowski, and no great young talent on the NHL roster.
A good portion of us, 'HOCKEY FANS' have been telling flames fans this very thing for the better part of 2+YEARS!!! Most of you scoffed at us. Your eventual rebuild will make the Nordiques one from the 90s look like a walk in the park.

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Originally Posted by wally31 View Post
Check your facts before posting. "Bare" is a terrible adjective to describe the Flame's farm.
Gaudreau, Baertschi, Sieloff, Jankowski, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Granlund, Gillies, Brossoit... These are solid prospects.
Actually, it's a pretty accurate description. You can choose to believe that all of these players will turn out to be impactful NHLers but the reality is that 3 maybe 4 of those guys will make the NHL (being generous here) and likely only 1 or 2 if you're very lucky will have a big impact on your club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I really think Calgary missed their window. They should have traded Kipper and Iggy when they had significant value. This is a strong draft year and I don't see any teams moving their first for either player to be honest. The season is short and could influence a teams trade behaviour. One moment they are top of the division and the next they are out of the playoffs. One year of Iggy for a guy like Ryan Pulock would be disastrous. Not only that, but he's definitely a rental with the cap going down. I don't see too many contenders with 8 mill in cap space with it going down. Their are just too many factors going against the flames.

I use to be jealous of some of their roster but I can't say that's the case anymore. You still have some decent pieces but I don't know how they contend without Iggy and Kipper in the future.
Yep, the window on Iginla and Kiprusoff was 2 years ago.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:36 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post

A good portion of us, 'HOCKEY FANS' have been telling flames fans this very thing for the better part of 2+YEARS!!! Most of you scoffed at us. Your eventual rebuild will make the Nordiques one from the 90s look like a walk in the park.
Yea... they just use silly excuses like .. "You just don't know our prospect pool!!"

Let's make this clear. NHL fans of all stripes didn't get together behind Calgary fans backs, and hatch a plot to almost unanimously agree that Calgary has a weak/old core with a pretty poor prospect pool just to troll Calgary fans. That's just the way it is.

You can't claim that all other fans are ignorant about Calgary prospects, because realistically I and any other fan should have just as good a feel for your prospect pool as we do for any other prospect pool besides our own. And the general consensus, from both fans, professional scouts, ranking services, etc, is that Calgary has a below average prospect pool.

Seriously, names like Reinhart, Jankowski, Gaudreau, Brodie, etc? These are the calibre of prospects that EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL has. Baertschi is the only one that sticks out. And guess what? Do you really think he's going to be as good as Iginla? Because you couldn't win with him as your best piece, so it's gonna be harder to win with a lesser-piece as your core player.

Now there IS opportunity to greatly improve the longterm fortunes of the Flames, but it does involve selling off a lot of that aging core. There's really almost nothing worth holding onto for the long-haul in terms of trying to keep as core players.

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02-19-2013, 09:47 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by wally31 View Post
Check your facts before posting. "Bare" is a terrible adjective to describe the Flame's farm.
Gaudreau, Baertschi, Sieloff, Jankowski, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Granlund, Gillies, Brossoit... These are solid prospects.
Those aren't even B level prospects

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02-19-2013, 09:59 AM
  #92
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Iginla hasn't been scoring goals but he's been setting up the play better than ever.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:01 AM
  #93
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Those aren't even B level prospects
Yeah they are. Calgary's prospects just go under the radar, and those are from last year's draft. You probably would have bolded Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Granlund too, if they didn't have a good showing at the WJC's.

As for that list I think it's fair to add Ferland and Kulak to the list as well.

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02-19-2013, 10:06 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Yeah they are. Calgary's prospects just go under the radar, and those are from last year's draft. You probably would have bolded Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Granlund too, if they didn't have a good showing at the WJC's.

As for that list I think it's fair to add Ferland and Kulak to the list as well.
Yeah, just have to take the Flames hate with a grain of salt.

Gillies will draw alot more attention when he's starting for the US next year, Gillies imo is going to top out to be much better than Brossoit.

As much as the Jankowski joke is a fun one he will probably garner some attention next year too once he makes team Canada.

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02-19-2013, 10:10 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Yeah they are. Calgary's prospects just go under the radar, and those are from last year's draft. You probably would have bolded Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Granlund too, if they didn't have a good showing at the WJC's.

As for that list I think it's fair to add Ferland and Kulak to the list as well.
Why? Why do you think Calgarys, and only Calgarys prospects go under the radar?

Please give me a logical laid out explanation for this. A good solid explanation as to why fans, professional scouts, sports analysts, and essentially everyone just seem to miss the great prospects that make up the Calgary farm system, underrate the heck out of it, and overrate everyone elses. It makes zero sense.

If anything, being a Canadian team, Calgary should get far MORE attention than teams like TB, Nashville, Phoenix, Columbus, Florida, etc, which don't have particularly huge followings and don't get as much exposure on TV.

Just because most of your prospects have shown improvements since being drafted, doesnt make them B-Prospects. What exactly do you expect from 19/20 year olds playing in a league that includes 16/17 year olds? Almost all CHL players show substantial improvement from their draft year to 1-2 years later.

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02-19-2013, 10:21 AM
  #96
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Why? Why do you think Calgarys, and only Calgarys prospects go under the radar?
Because there's a vitriolic hatred that posters have for Calgary, which prompts them to undervalue Calgary at every turn. This has been going on since before I joined this board. Every free agent signing gets ridiculed even if it's a guy that's been one of our best players. Draft picks get ignored so that posters can say Calgary has ZERO prospects. Core players get ignored so that posters can say that Iginla and Kipper are the only one's carrying the team, and it will fall into the abyss when they wash up sooner than later. People just do not take a logical, objective assessment when it comes to Flames. You can disagree all you want, but you're not going to convince a single Flames fan that that's not the case.

As for scouts and analysts, I hear them say all the time that Calgary's prospect pool has made big improvements and is trending upwards.

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02-19-2013, 10:29 AM
  #97
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It will be hard to get 1st Rd picks this year.

Not only is it a very deep draft year, but the new rules mean anything from the bottom 14 teams gives you more tickets to 1st overall. Anyone even remotely in the fringe won't move that pick.

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02-19-2013, 10:36 AM
  #98
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Wings have a better prospect pool than Calgary, and have Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Kronwall. Pretty sure Detroit is going to be okay.
How does Detroit have a better prosect pool? B.S. Datsyuk is old, Zetterberg is getting old, Fransen is an injury waiting to happen. The Wings got old fast are soon going to be bottom feeders for years.

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02-19-2013, 10:37 AM
  #99
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Yeah, just have to take the Flames hate with a grain of salt.

Gillies will draw alot more attention when he's starting for the US next year, Gillies imo is going to top out to be much better than Brossoit.

As much as the Jankowski joke is a fun one he will probably garner some attention next year too once he makes team Canada.
I agree about Gillies. He's a very good goalie who's getting a lot of experience, and should look good for the Americans next year.

As for Sieloff, I saw him in a televised Windsor game, as well as the WJC's. I thought he was just a huge hitter, I was surprised at what a good defensive d-man he is. Calgary may not have a bluechip stud prospect on the blueline atm, but there's a handful of B prospects that should round out the bottom 4 very very nicely. Sieloff, Wotherspoon, Kulak, and Culkin are way better than the days when Leach and Negrin were Calgary's best D prospects, and it's only getting better.

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02-19-2013, 10:47 AM
  #100
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As for scouts and analysts, I hear them say all the time that Calgary's prospect pool has made big improvements and is trending upwards.
Well yea. When you have a bottom ~2-3 prospect pool in the league for several years straight, there's really only one direction to go in

The prospect pool IS better than it was for Calgary 3-4 years ago. But that doesn't mean that league-wide it's good. Just that its better than the worst prospect pools in the league..

PS: Leafs are hated on MUCH more than Calgary. And other teams non-troll fans are still willing to admit that our prospect pool is at least decent (though not top 10 or anything). If you ignore the trolls out there, lots of people do simply post their objective analysis/criticisms, and the general consensus has been and is that Calgary has a below average prospect pool, and that doesn't stem from some Calgary-hate-bias, real or imaginary.

I haven't seen a single poster besides Calgary fans talk about Calgary having a good farm system... you call it anti-Calgary bias... When in reality its just Calgary-homer-fan bias that causes anybody at all to think they have a good farm system

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