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Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:24 PM
  #401
Der Jaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
In fairness, people should weigh players' top end + what they're most likely to become. A player's safety net of being a 4th liner isn't particularly valuable in this league if you view another guy's likely high end as being a bit better. That said, I don't agree with the original poster as Kreider is simply more intriguing with his size/speed. I'm not sold on either guy, though.
I weigh both. I think it's important to determine the worst possible outcome as well as the best.

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02-18-2013, 10:27 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by ImpressedDAHagent View Post
I just wonder if he is worth 5 million a year. What kind of impact would that have on other players contracts. We already have a few inflated contracts on the team. It's an interesting move but I'd almost rather hold off with what we have. Certainly not giving up armia.
So do we just hope a defensively solid, physical, young 2 way center falls into the sabres lap?
At the moment, we have ONE player in the organization that we HOPE can develop a game similar to ROR's.
Yes, I think some of the problems of this team can be attributed to coaching, but players like O'Reilly are what you need to make a run at the cup. Even if Myers, Regehr, Sulzer, and Leo all stepped up their games, we'd still probably give up a decent amount of goals and rely on our offense too heavily to win consistently because we have no forward line that can stop or even slow down other teams' top threats on a regular basis

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02-18-2013, 11:07 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by kirby11 View Post
So do we just hope a defensively solid, physical, young 2 way center falls into the sabres lap?
At the moment, we have ONE player in the organization that we HOPE can develop a game similar to ROR's.
Yes, I think some of the problems of this team can be attributed to coaching, but players like O'Reilly are what you need to make a run at the cup. Even if Myers, Regehr, Sulzer, and Leo all stepped up their games, we'd still probably give up a decent amount of goals and rely on our offense too heavily to win consistently because we have no forward line that can stop or even slow down other teams' top threats on a regular basis
There does come a point where the asking price becomes too high even if you need the player as badly as we need a shut sown 2 way guy.

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02-18-2013, 11:16 PM
  #404
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And to that I say, eff that noise.
Have to give to get. I would do it.

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02-18-2013, 11:42 PM
  #405
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Have to give to get. I would do it.
Trade Grigorenko for O'Reilly.

Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Ott - O'Reilly - Gerbe
Foligno - Ennis - Stafford
Scott - McCormick - Kaleta
Hecht

Girgensons eventually moves to O'Reilly's wing, and Gerbe to the bottom line.

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02-19-2013, 01:04 AM
  #406
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Avs have a wealth of quality G prospects.......Enroth hasn't shown enough....we should try to make a deal for ROR that also brings back a G prospect.......if that means using Grigorenko, then so be it

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02-19-2013, 06:43 AM
  #407
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...wow. Really. REALLY. You REALLY want to trade the 18 year old centerman.

Joe Thorton: 55 GP, 7 pts in his rookie year

RoR is a great player, but Grigerenko is a potential FRANCHISE player. We aren't one Ryan O'Reilly away from the cup. Sorry.

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02-19-2013, 07:31 AM
  #408
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I like Grigorenko as a starting block for an O'Reilly trade. I also don't mind using a G prospect to sweeten it.

Grigorenko + Sekera for O'Reilly + Aittokallio?

Avs get a top prospect in Grigs, a top 4 D in Sekera to fill out the roster player requirement. Sabres get our #2 Goalie prospect (It will take a lot more to get Pickard from COL) and Ryan O'Reilly.

Though... despite Grigorenko being a strong prospect, I just can't see Sherman doing it. He needs a bigger name in that trade.

I like the trade, but I think Sherman will want the roster player to be more defined than the prospect.

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02-19-2013, 07:38 AM
  #409
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This is the same Grigorenko most of you were anointing a franchise player 3 weeks ago, correct?

Trading Grigorenko in a package for O'Reilly is stupid, considering we have Girgensons who is well on his way to becoming that all situations mid line center.

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02-19-2013, 08:04 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
This is the same Grigorenko most of you were anointing a franchise player 3 weeks ago, correct?

Trading Grigorenko in a package for O'Reilly is stupid, considering we have Girgensons who is well on his way to becoming that all situations mid line center.
ROR is the current flavor of the month, so it makes since that everyone is selling the farm to try to get him.
Until he gets traded the proposals are going to get more and more lopsided.

DR isn't trading Grigo, imo.

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02-19-2013, 08:45 AM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
This is the same Grigorenko most of you were anointing a franchise player 3 weeks ago, correct?

Trading Grigorenko in a package for O'Reilly is stupid, considering we have Girgensons who is well on his way to becoming that all situations mid line center.


O'reilly was shutting down NHLers at Girgensons age.

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02-19-2013, 08:50 AM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
This is the same Grigorenko most of you were anointing a franchise player 3 weeks ago, correct?

Trading Grigorenko in a package for O'Reilly is stupid, considering we have Girgensons who is well on his way to becoming that all situations mid line center.
Well on his way? He hasn't played a professional game at center.

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02-19-2013, 08:55 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post


O'reilly was shutting down NHLers at Girgensons age.
Did I say Girgensons was? He was drafted as a defensive foward and will probably be that in another year or two

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:56 AM
  #414
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Well on his way? He hasn't played a professional game at center.
Ok foward.. happy?

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02-19-2013, 09:51 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Did I say Girgensons was? He was drafted as a defensive foward and will probably be that in another year or two
one guy is an elite shutdown top 6 center in the NHL at 21 yrs old
the other guy is a mid 1st round prospect

It's the same as saying we shouldn't give up assets to get a proven young top pairing defensemen, because we have Mark Pysyk.

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02-19-2013, 10:02 AM
  #416
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Is there some sort of quota that I'm not aware of, a rule that states you can't have O'Reilly AND Girgensons at the same time, that you're limited to one good defensive forward?

So what if Girgensons can develop into O'Reilly...just play him next to O'Reilly and have an even better shutdown line. Just because we have a prospect that could become a good defensive forward doesn't mean we can't get another one on top of that.

Or is this some sort of "too much of a good thing" business? Because...I don't see it that way.

The only justification for not wanting O'Reilly is if the value in the trade is off, not because of prospects we have. And hey, if you only want one of them, trade Girgensons for a offensive minded prospect...problem (as if it is a problem) solved.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:20 AM
  #417
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Yup. Girgensons-O'Reilly is the type of line you win Cups with.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:31 AM
  #418
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Wonder if we could get Stoll and Bernier out of LA. Stafford + ? Then we could move Miller in the off-season if we wanted to.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:37 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Yup. Girgensons-O'Reilly is the type of line you win Cups with.
. I really hate this notion. You win cups with Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane/Hossa, Datsyuk/Zetterburg/Lidstrom, or a hot goalie like Quick or Thomas and with Chara or Doughty at peak form in front of them. It might be nice to have a good shut down line, but it would be there to complement the great players who are what you really need to win a cup. Selling the farm for a complementary piece is dumb.

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02-19-2013, 10:41 AM
  #420
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. I really hate this notion. You win cups with Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane/Hossa, Datsyuk/Zetterburg/Lidstrom, or a hot goalie like Quick or Thomas and with Chara or Doughty at peak form in front of them. It might be nice to have a good shut down line, but it would be there to complement the great players who are what you really need to win a cup. Selling the farm for a complementary piece is dumb.
Elite shutdown centers are the one thing every team to win the Cup since the lockout has had.

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02-19-2013, 10:45 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Elite shutdown centers are the one thing every team to win the Cup since the lockout has had.
No, elite players at the top of their game is what they had. No one would be calling Dave Bolland elite anything if didn't play on a stacked team. And if you want to go that route, that type of player is much easier to come by. Carolina has their elite shut down center now, how are they? If you go through playoff teams from last year, you can point out numerous guys who can play that role that didn't go anywhere.


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Old
02-19-2013, 10:49 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
. I really hate this notion. You win cups with Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane/Hossa, Datsyuk/Zetterburg/Lidstrom, or a hot goalie like Quick or Thomas and Quick with Chara or Doughty at peak form in front of them. It might be nice to have a good shut down line, but it would be there to complement the great players who are what you really need to win a cup. Selling the farm for a complementary piece is dumb.
Again..

Year - Team - Defensive center [Games/Points] (Offensive producers [Games/Points])
2012 - LA Kings - Richards [20/15] (Kopitar [20/20], Brown [20/20])
2011 - Boston Bruins - Bergeron [23/20] (Krejci [25/23], Marchard [25/19])
2010 - Chicago Blackhawks - Toews [22/29] (Kane [22/28], Sharp [22/22])
2009 - Pittsburgh Penguins - Staal [24/9] (Malkin [24/36], Crosby [24/31])
2008 - Detroit Red Wings - Datsyuk [22/23] (Zetterberg [22/27], Franzen [16/18])
2007 - Anaheim Ducks - Getzlaf [21/17] (Perry [21/15], Selanne [21/15])
2006 - Carolina Hurricanes - Brind'Amour [25/18] (Staal [25/28], Stillman [25/26])

Best argument for you is probably the Penguins with Crosby and Malkin. But who knows what they'd do without Staal.

Most of the teams also had an elite shutdown defenseman (Doughty, Chara, Keith, Lidstrom, Pronger)


Last edited by vcv: 02-19-2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 10:51 AM
  #423
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No, elite players at the top of their game is what they had.
Yes, players who were elite at preventing goals from opposing top lines. The checking line is a fundamentally important part of a contending team.

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02-19-2013, 10:52 AM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Elite shutdown centers are the one thing every team to win the Cup since the lockout has had.
All those players you mentioned played on teams with great checking centers. Datsyuk is a multiple Selke winner and one of the best two-way centers ever imo so it's a bit silly to mention him.

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02-19-2013, 10:55 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Again..

Year - Team - Defensive center [Games/Points] (Offensive producers [Games/Points])
2012 - LA Kings - Richards [20/15] (Kopitar [20/20], Brown [20/20])
2011 - Boston Bruins - Bergeron [23/20] (Krejci [25/23], Marchard [25/19])
2010 - Chicago Blackhawks - Toews [22/29] (Kane [22/28], Sharp [22/22])
2009 - Pittsburgh Penguins - Staal [24/9] (Malkin [24/36], Crosby [24/31])
2008 - Detroit Red Wings - Datsyuk [22/23] (Zetterberg [22/27], Franzen [16/18])
2007 - Anaheim Ducks - Getzlaf [21/17] (Perry [21/15], Selanne [21/15])
2006 - Carolina Hurricanes - Brind'Amour [25/18] (Staal [25/28], Stillman [25/26])

Best argument for you is probably the Penguins with Crosby and Malkin. But who knows what they'd do without Staal.
I guess ROR is the equivalent of these players now? Give me a break.

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