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Rangers top 4 D or Canucks top 4

View Poll Results: Better top 4 D?
Rangers 134 74.44%
Canucks 46 25.56%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:42 AM
  #51
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Rangers.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:02 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by nyrfan1026 View Post
Rangers fan here saying Anton Stralman>MDZ.
Agreed. Stralman is probably the most underrated player on the Rangers and Del Zotto is overrated because of the inconsistent offense he produces and the fact that DZ is 22 even though Stralman is only 26.

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:07 PM
  #53
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Top 2 defenses in the league, probably Rangers by a hair

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Old
02-18-2013, 12:08 PM
  #54
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easily the rangers?


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-18-2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
02-18-2013, 07:15 PM
  #55
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Ideally? Put Garrison on the second unit cross ice from Schroeder. Let him saucer passes through the seam for one timers. Kassian in front of the net to screen.
Would rather him on the 1st Unit, getting passes from Henrik & Daniel. With Burr or Kes infront of the net.

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:29 PM
  #56
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I like the offensive side of the Canuck D much better.

Otherwise both D are backed by elite goaltending that shelter mistakes.. Both teams are among the tops in GA.

Shots allowed per game, Van is 13th (27.9), Rangers 17th (29.2)..

Last yr, the Ranger/Canucks were #3 and #4 respectively in GA..
Yr before Vancouver won the Jennings.

Not much separating these two teams defensively from a stats p.o.v. other than offensive numbers... and the Canucks D come out on top there.


I will lean Canucks for the slight offensive edge they bring.

A lot closer this yr so far than in yrs past..
NYR D: 6g, 20a, 26pts.
Van D: 9g, 18a, 27pts.

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:30 PM
  #57
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Offensively: Canucks
Defensively: Rangers

Overall: Even

I wouldn't trade our D core for the Rangers, and I'm sure they'd feel the same way, both fit the system played by each team. I won't vote, because it's that close for me.

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:31 PM
  #58
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Rangers are better defensively, but Canucks are better offensively and have a better balance. Depends what your team needs are, I guess.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:32 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Who overrates them? And why?
Just about 75% maybe more of hf. And idk why. Maybe cuz they were great last year.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:15 PM
  #60
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You have to wonder if the people who say it's "easily the Rangers" actually stay up long enough to even watch the Canucks.

IMO, I think you could go either way.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:51 AM
  #61
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Rangers top 4 is pretty overrated. Only by creation of the perfect storm (young players, new york media, great goalie behind them) do they get this kind of recognition as top 10/Norris worthy defenseman. No where else is such a fuss made over one dimensional defensive defenseman.

Staal, Girardi, McDonut are great in their own end. No question about it. But I'm sick of hearing for years now about how Marc Staal doesnt put up points simply because he doesnt try, or how because he's young he has plenty of time to work on offense later or whatever excuse works at the moment. Same now is true for Mcdonagh. Being a black hole offensively does not make you a top 10 guy no matter how good you are defensively, all of which is debatable due to the effect of having Lundqvist in net. Girardi is probably the best combination of offense and defense, however still is primarily a shut down guy. And this myth about Del Zotto now being a shut down stud is absurd. Yes he made a huge jump defensively last year. Because if he didnt he'd have been kept in Hartford. He's still hardly reliable in his own end, but fills a prupose as he's the only defenseman on the team capable of 40-50 points a season.

Overall, The Canucks group is a better core because they can play both sides of the puck

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02-19-2013, 07:57 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Rangers top 4 is pretty overrated. Only by creation of the perfect storm (young players, new york media, great goalie behind them) do they get this kind of recognition as top 10/Norris worthy defenseman. No where else is such a fuss made over one dimensional defensive defenseman.

Staal, Girardi, McDonut are great in their own end. No question about it. But I'm sick of hearing for years now about how Marc Staal doesnt put up points simply because he doesnt try, or how because he's young he has plenty of time to work on offense later or whatever excuse works at the moment. Same now is true for Mcdonagh. Being a black hole offensively does not make you a top 10 guy no matter how good you are defensively, all of which is debatable due to the effect of having Lundqvist in net. Girardi is probably the best combination of offense and defense, however still is primarily a shut down guy. And this myth about Del Zotto now being a shut down stud is absurd. Yes he made a huge jump defensively last year. Because if he didnt he'd have been kept in Hartford. He's still hardly reliable in his own end, but fills a prupose as he's the only defenseman on the team capable of 40-50 points a season.

Overall, The Canucks group is a better core because they can play both sides of the puck
Staal and McDonagh are both superior to Girardi's offensive abilities. You should watch them some time and you'll notice it immediately. It's not even slightly debateable. That's how enormous the difference is. And they are both better defensively than Girardi.

And labeling their offensive capabilities as black-holes is quite silly. McDonagh had 32 points last season in 82 games. With practically no PP time. There were only a handful of dmen last season that outproduced McD offensively at ES.

Staal's offensive production has increased each and every year, up until he was concussed. He has 8 points in 14 games thus far. Not exactly a black-hole offensively either.

The only thing I would consider one dimensional, is your post. You think Girardi's the dmen on this team that has the best combination of offense and defense, which speaks volumes about how much you know regarding our blue-line.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:02 AM
  #63
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3-4 easily NY, Girardi is probably the best #3 in the league

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:10 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I don't know if some people were expecting Garrison to be as good offensively as last year or what but I see way too much Garrison hate on our board, specifically in GDT when Bieksa and often Edler and Hamhuis are struggling too. I found he was put on his off side on the PP a lot and was given some of the worst passes for one timers I've seen. His shot should add another dimension to our PP and I agree that we looked dangerous on the man advantage today and missed on some golden oppertunities.
Since being a Nucks fan. I have come to notice one trait of Bieksa that never seems to dissipate. He is remarkably good at making other defensemen look bad. For whatever reason his blunders initially tend to show up poorly on whoever his partner is, or occasionally the forward he's passing to. Only after a few replays do you catch he missed up. Not always, but it has become something of a trend. Likewise, when Juice on the ice instead of Casual Kev. The whole line plays better.

Bieksa is the definition of a double-edged sword.

Anywho, tough call. I feel we have better offensive components, while New York wins the defensive side. We may nudge them out due to have well Tanev and Ballard are playing but Garrison does need to show a little more consistency. His last few games are the gradual steps we need to see. Just an adjustment phase really. I say by season's end, these two, along with San Jose could be decided by a coin flip.

Easily the Rangers? No. The difference is not that large. What I find comical is New York's defense is accused of being overrated and yet it's only fans of other teams that seem to be doing it.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:26 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Who overrates them? And why?
Many hockey fans.

I don't know, I assume it's because they overachieved during playoffs last year.

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02-19-2013, 10:33 AM
  #66
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Many hockey fans.

I don't know, I assume it's because they overachieved during playoffs last year.
Who overachieved? The Rangers? Or the Rangers defense as a group?

I'm confused. If "many hockey fans" are convinced by something, but they're not being overrated. Maybe they're telling it as it is, and you just disagree. Which is fine.

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02-19-2013, 10:37 AM
  #67
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Garrison is letting the Nucks down. I actually like their top3 better than the Rangers (Edler > Staal easily as much as McDonagh > Hamhuis).

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02-19-2013, 12:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I guess we will have to wait for the playoffs then.

The NYR D is probably a bit better defensively but the Canucks D helps more in the offensive zone and all around their offensive edge is more than the NYR defensive edge IMO.

Our 5th and 6th guys in Tanev and Ballard is what really tips the scales as well.
Read the OP again. This poll is about Vancouver's top 4 VS Rangers top 4 d-men...

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02-19-2013, 12:13 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by J StClair28 View Post
Really anyone should have been able to predict that Garrison would have disappointed. Anyone expecting him to even come close to replicating his success from last year was doomed from the start. The Brian Campbell effect, ladies and gentlemen.
Exactly, I've been saying the same thing since he became a UFA and clubs were lining up for him.

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02-19-2013, 12:28 PM
  #70
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Rangers, by a hair.

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02-19-2013, 12:31 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Rangers top 4 is pretty overrated. Only by creation of the perfect storm (young players, new york media, great goalie behind them) do they get this kind of recognition as top 10/Norris worthy defenseman. No where else is such a fuss made over one dimensional defensive defenseman.

Staal, Girardi, McDonut are great in their own end. No question about it. But I'm sick of hearing for years now about how Marc Staal doesnt put up points simply because he doesnt try, or how because he's young he has plenty of time to work on offense later or whatever excuse works at the moment. Same now is true for Mcdonagh. Being a black hole offensively does not make you a top 10 guy no matter how good you are defensively, all of which is debatable due to the effect of having Lundqvist in net. Girardi is probably the best combination of offense and defense, however still is primarily a shut down guy. And this myth about Del Zotto now being a shut down stud is absurd. Yes he made a huge jump defensively last year. Because if he didnt he'd have been kept in Hartford. He's still hardly reliable in his own end, but fills a prupose as he's the only defenseman on the team capable of 40-50 points a season.

Overall, The Canucks group is a better core because they can play both sides of the puck


First off Staal has got 8 points in 14 GP while playing really, really good defensive D. Staal isn't gonna turn into a 40+ guy... I dunno where you got that from?

Secondly McDonagh finished 7th in ES (even strength) scoring by defensemen. He beat a lot of great players. Yandle, Keith etc. He put up 32 points while getting basically no chances on the PP. Ask any Rangers fan and they will tell you that McDonagh has got great offensive potential. He can make good plays and he scores some really nice goals.

You will probably now counter with: ''Then why isn't he getting any PP time if he's so good?''

Well our coach is Torts, he is special to say the least. He used to use John Mitchell () on the PP. That says a lot. I love Torts but sometimes he makes really bad choices tbh.


And no one has claimed that MDZ is a shutdown D. Not even close. He is solid in his own zone these days though, above average no doubt. He isn't getting payed to be a Girardi/Staal kind of player.


I dunno where all this hate is coming from but yeah... next time reflect more before you post, thanks.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Staal and McDonagh are both superior to Girardi's offensive abilities. You should watch them some time and you'll notice it immediately. It's not even slightly debateable. That's how enormous the difference is. And they are both better defensively than Girardi.

And labeling their offensive capabilities as black-holes is quite silly. McDonagh had 32 points last season in 82 games. With practically no PP time. There were only a handful of dmen last season that outproduced McD offensively at ES.

Staal's offensive production has increased each and every year, up until he was concussed. He has 8 points in 14 games thus far. Not exactly a black-hole offensively either.

The only thing I would consider one dimensional, is your post. You think Girardi's the dmen on this team that has the best combination of offense and defense, which speaks volumes about how much you know regarding our blue-line.

Great ****ing post boom boom! I couldn't have said it better.

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02-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Since being a Nucks fan. I have come to notice one trait of Bieksa that never seems to dissipate. He is remarkably good at making other defensemen look bad. For whatever reason his blunders initially tend to show up poorly on whoever his partner is, or occasionally the forward he's passing to. Only after a few replays do you catch he missed up. Not always, but it has become something of a trend. Likewise, when Juice on the ice instead of Casual Kev. The whole line plays better.

Bieksa is the definition of a double-edged sword.

Anywho, tough call. I feel we have better offensive components, while New York wins the defensive side. We may nudge them out due to have well Tanev and Ballard are playing but Garrison does need to show a little more consistency. His last few games are the gradual steps we need to see. Just an adjustment phase really. I say by season's end, these two, along with San Jose could be decided by a coin flip.

Easily the Rangers? No. The difference is not that large. What I find comical is New York's defense is accused of being overrated and yet it's only fans of other teams that seem to be doing it.

They're all afraid that Sather is gonna do a trade with their team and rob them blind if they don't kiss our *** .

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #74
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I've noticed this huge misconception by non Rangers fans and even a hockey analyst (can't think of who right now) that Girardi is a lethal 2-way d-man with better defensive skills but slightly less offensive skills than MDZ. I LOVE Girardi and what he does for the team but since when is he not a shut down, stay at home, gritty d-man? Like it was stated McDonagh certainly has more offensive skills and Staal probably does too and that's not considered a strong trait for Staal.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:07 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCally24 View Post
not being a homer but its pretty easily the rangers
What's hilarious is the excuses I keep reading about why Lundqvist has never done anything in the playoffs, and how Luongo's benefitted from his team and his defense, yet the Rangers top 4 is pretty easily better? Something's not adding up here...

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