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Could Giroux be traded? What's he worth?

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Old
02-18-2013, 01:32 PM
  #226
Hanzee Dent
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Originally Posted by pq View Post
This draft is so deep that if Columbus offered that it would be hard for me (if I were the GM) to say no.
Its not a bad idea. But I'm just wary of relying on draft picks when you have a sure thing you're giving up. Just too many bad memories. Mostly from other Philly teams, but still.

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02-18-2013, 01:37 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Marlo Stanfield View Post

This is very good and close in value. One of those I'd do it but lose sleep over it/don't do it and lose sleep over it deals.
Value is right and the need is there. But who takes over as the top forward/star on the Flyers? Schenn and Coots aren't ready. You could make a move on an RFA/UFA if one becomes available, but with the cap and all. Giroux kind of is the straw that stirs the drink at the forward position.

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02-18-2013, 01:39 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Why don't you tell that to your fellow Rangers fans who wouldn't trade McDonagh for Giroux.
Because not wanting to give up one of the best young defenders in the league for one of the best young forwards in the league is such a terrible thing.

Quote:
You clearly don't know anything about Pietrangelo. He's one of the best 3 defensemen in the game right now and the Blues would not move him for Giroux.
WHAT????

He's better than one of either Karlsson, Weber, or Chara???

I watch St. Louis A HELL OF A LOT MORE than you do and this is just wrong.


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-18-2013 at 02:39 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
02-18-2013, 04:12 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by pq View Post
I have been thinking about this for a little bit. One of the only ways I would consider moving Giroux would be to Columbus for all 4 of their 1st round picks.
They have 4? I know they have their own, LA's, and NYR's. Which is the fourth?

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Old
02-18-2013, 04:35 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
The only thing that's stupid is you saying you wouldn't trade Kessel for Kane... Just look at the numbers and watch them play, Kessel is not on Kane's level

-Kane has 390 points in 414 games, 52 poiints in 51 games in the playoffs and he just turned 24. (.95 PPG)

- Kessel 338 points in 471 games, 15 points in 15 playoff games and he's 25 (.72 PPG)
My only problem with this is Kane has such an amazing cast surrounding him I mean Hossa, Sharp, Toews


Kessel has Bozak, Lupul, etc


I mean there is a serious talent jump between the two groups. The fact is trading Kessel for Kane would make no sense for any team anyways. Toronto trades their star winger for another star winger? Kane is not going to win us a cup alone same thing with Kessel.

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02-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Hartnell only played a few games before getting injured. Simmonds has a played a few recently. But before that it was mostly Tye McGinn and Briere (who has been absolutely horrible), Voracek for maybe a one game, Read a few games, B. Schenn a few games early in the season as well when he was struggling. Laviolette literally has no patience and will try multiple different wingers for Giroux per game, what seems like every game.

I remember when Richards was here he literally played with Eric Wellwood when he came up from the minors, Carcillo (for over a year, no joke), Andreas Nodl (for the better part of a year) ect. To put it mildly Laviolette is not that great at finding proper line-mates for the star players. he kinda just throws and bunch of players together (for a few periods or even shifts) hoping he'll find something that works and every once and a while he lucks out and sticks with it (Hartnell-Briere-Leino, Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr) but for the most part the Flyers have no set lines.
Good players, don't struggle this much when they have a revolving door of wingers. The year he broke out, people said Sid & Geno needed to step aside to allow another and make it a "top 3" not "top 2"...well, to earn that title, you have to be a damn good player regardless of who you have for wingers, what Geno & Sid do.

Giroux is good, but if he really needs solid wingers to be more effective, he's more of a complimentary center then.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:13 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Because not wanting to give up one of the best young defenders in the league for one of the best young forwards in the league is such a terrible thing.
FFS. McDonagh is behind Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Chara, Weber, OEL, Doughty, Suter at the very least, and several more are arguable. Giroux is behind Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, and then only arguables. Giroux>>McDonagh.

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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
WHAT????

He's better than one of either Karlsson, Weber, or Chara???

I watch St. Louis A HELL OF A LOT MORE than you do and this is just wrong.
I'm not interested in a huge argument, but fine, 4th, behind the three you listed, and only barely behind (if that).

And secondly, don't tell me you watch more of St. Louis than I do. Don't even go there. They're my third favorite team in the conference, I watch quite a few St. Louis games, and most of them are solely to watch Pietrangelo. If you've only watched this year, he hasn't been quite himself this year so far. He's been trying too hard to put up offensive numbers (which he's succeeding at handily) and so his defense is suffering a little. But trust me, he'll get back on track. The only defensemen he's behind defensively are Chara and Weber.

The more interesting thing here is that you seem to think McDonagh is better than Pietrangelo, which should be a head-scratcher for any non-massive homer.

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02-18-2013, 05:13 PM
  #233
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I'd trade Giroux for Shea Weber.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:27 PM
  #234
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To philly

Luongo
Kesler
Hamhuis
2013 1st

To Van

Giroux
B.Schenn
Boucher




am I close?

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:35 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by BorussiaDortmund View Post
We'd be looking at something like Edler/Kesler + +
I'd go Edler + Gaunce + 1st...anything else?

Edler's NTC kicks in soon so it has to be done pretty much now.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:43 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by CalgaryNuck View Post
To philly

Luongo
Kesler
Hamhuis
2013 1st

To Van

Giroux
B.Schenn
Boucher




am I close?
sure. but the answer is still no. Why the hell would philly do this? We are a young team with a **** load of talent. These trades are all nonsense. Value wise its close, but idk why either side would do this.

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02-18-2013, 05:44 PM
  #237
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If I were to trade Giroux I would expect an Elite Superstar I could build my team around. ie Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos...why would the flyers ask for anything else?

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:45 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryNuck View Post
To philly

Luongo
Kesler
Hamhuis
2013 1st

To Van

Giroux
B.Schenn
Boucher




am I close?
No, you're not.

Luongo? Yeah, I'd love to tie up $10+M in cap space on the two goalies in the league with the longest contracts. And the rest just isn't worth it.

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Old
02-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Good players, don't struggle this much when they have a revolving door of wingers. The year he broke out, people said Sid & Geno needed to step aside to allow another and make it a "top 3" not "top 2"...well, to earn that title, you have to be a damn good player regardless of who you have for wingers, what Geno & Sid do.

Giroux is good, but if he really needs solid wingers to be more effective, he's more of a complimentary center then.
That is completely false. Its been 16 games! You guys judge him because of the begining of the season? For over 2 years hes been 1 of the best players in the league and I include his 76pt season because of what he did in the playoffs last year. If you think that doesn't matter than you shouldnt be able to have an opinion in this thread. In fact, he outplayed the **** out of both of those superstars in the playoffs (and it wasn't even close) He even finished the playoffs with more points than anyone after playing half of the games. Does that make them any worse? NO! They're still legendary caliber players. This is nonsense and the only people who think Giroux isn't the player he was last year are haters who want him to fail because he plays for Philly. Fact is on talent he matches any player in the league except Crosby. And even Crosby you can make cases that he's just as talented. And if someone tells me that Crosby and Malkin do it by themselves they're full of ****. They've had a very solid top 6 and top 4 for almost a decade. They're a great team with the 2 best players in the league. If you believe the players around them have nothing to do with their production then you need to watch hockey longer. This isn't basketball it's a full team game and every player on the ice matters.

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02-18-2013, 05:59 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
They have 4? I know they have their own, LA's, and NYR's. Which is the fourth?
They have 3 not 4 and I like where your heads at, but this year Columbus could get stuck with picks 13, 14, 15...wouldn't that be a *****.

For serious Mackinnon and Jones would be sick.

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:43 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
sure. but the answer is still no. Why the hell would philly do this? We are a young team with a **** load of talent. These trades are all nonsense. Value wise its close, but idk why either side would do this.
I was more curious if the value was there. The odds of Giroux, Kesler, Hamhuis or Schenn getting moved are essentially nill.

fun to speculate though

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:01 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
FFS. McDonagh is behind Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Chara, Weber, OEL, Doughty, Suter at the very least, and several more are arguable. Giroux is behind Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, and then only arguables. Giroux>>McDonagh.
I said Giroux was one of the best young forwards in the league. Fact.

I said McDonagh was one of the best young defenders in the league. Fact.

Where is the confusion here? Instead of putting words in my mouth because you simply do not have an argument, why don't you go back to the drawing board and think of some other way to attack my posts?

Chara, Weber and Suter are not YOUNG. OEL, Doughty, Karlsson and Pietrangelo ARE.

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I'm not interested in a huge argument, but fine, 4th, behind the three you listed, and only barely behind (if that).

And secondly, don't tell me you watch more of St. Louis than I do. Don't even go there. They're my third favorite team in the conference, I watch quite a few St. Louis games, and most of them are solely to watch Pietrangelo. If you've only watched this year, he hasn't been quite himself this year so far. He's been trying too hard to put up offensive numbers (which he's succeeding at handily) and so his defense is suffering a little. But trust me, he'll get back on track. The only defensemen he's behind defensively are Chara and Weber.
No, I WILL tell you that I watch more St. Louis than you do because they've been one of my favorite teams since the Shanny-Janney-Hull days, so don't even attempt that one. I get Center Ice to watch them, LA, Chicago and Edmonton in specific. I do watch other teams and watch as many games as humanly possible, but I watch those teams more than any other non-Ranger teams.

I'm not going to put Pietrangelo ahead of Karlsson, Doughty, Chara, Weber or Suter because those with the exception of Karlsson are all leaps and bounds better defensively, Pietrangelo is just a small step under those guys offensively as well. Doughty will rebound and start playing a lot better, like he did towards the end of last season.

Quote:
The more interesting thing here is that you seem to think McDonagh is better than Pietrangelo, which should be a head-scratcher for any non-massive homer.
Again, putting words in my mouth. Overall, Pietrangelo is better. Defensively? A dead heat. You haven't seen nearly enough of Ryan McDonagh to say ANYTHING about him. I've seen more than enough of both. You haven't. So stop trying to argue something that you have no clue about.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:29 AM
  #243
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Giroux will never be traded....

I read in a Philadelphia newspaper that Claude was described as the second coming of Bobby Clarke. A feisty forward with outstanding stick handling/ puck controlling skills, he just needs to become comfortable with his new responsibilities as team captain.
As much as Ed Snider loves Bob Clarke, there is no way in hell that he'll trade away a guy who has the potential to become another HOF player like Clarke.
This thread is pointless, because G is not going to be traded....no matter what package is offered.

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02-19-2013, 10:36 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Good players, don't struggle this much when they have a revolving door of wingers. The year he broke out, people said Sid & Geno needed to step aside to allow another and make it a "top 3" not "top 2"...well, to earn that title, you have to be a damn good player regardless of who you have for wingers, what Geno & Sid do.

Giroux is good, but if he really needs solid wingers to be more effective, he's more of a complimentary center then.
Bold A: Struggling=/=unlucky. Granted, he hasn't played as well as last year (injured while playing in Germany, lockout season, etc.) but his shooting % and on ice shooting percentage have been in the unlucky range for most of the season. If he'd get some more puck luck he'd be pushing well over a PPG right now.

Bold B: He's not a complimentary center. He's a franchise center, and one would have to be a ****ing blind hater to disagree. A complimentary winger would be like James Neal. A guy who would be a 50 pt scorer on any other team but mooches off of a star C like Malkin. Giroux doesn't need wingers of Malkin's ilk to put up 90+ points.

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Old
02-19-2013, 11:07 AM
  #245
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I read in a Philadelphia newspaper that Claude was described as the second coming of Bobby Clarke. A feisty forward with outstanding stick handling/ puck controlling skills, he just needs to become comfortable with his new responsibilities as team captain.
Sounds an awful lot like Mike Richards. Wonder what happened with him.

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02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #246
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Sounds an awful lot like Mike Richards. Wonder what happened with him.
Went to LA and won a cup.
Peter Deboer stated that if Mike Richards is on a team, that team will win the Stanley cup. Now I know it was a totally team effort and that Brown and Kopitar were the most noteable...But he was still right.

Yeah and LA overpaid for Richards...

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02-19-2013, 12:35 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by JustJim View Post
I read in a Philadelphia newspaper that Claude was described as the second coming of Bobby Clarke. A feisty forward with outstanding stick handling/ puck controlling skills, he just needs to become comfortable with his new responsibilities as team captain.
As much as Ed Snider loves Bob Clarke, there is no way in hell that he'll trade away a guy who has the potential to become another HOF player like Clarke.
This thread is pointless, because G is not going to be traded....no matter what package is offered.
so was Mike Richards....

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by HighOFFHockey View Post
That is completely false. Its been 16 games! You guys judge him because of the begining of the season? For over 2 years hes been 1 of the best players in the league and I include his 76pt season because of what he did in the playoffs last year. If you think that doesn't matter than you shouldnt be able to have an opinion in this thread. In fact, he outplayed the **** out of both of those superstars in the playoffs (and it wasn't even close) He even finished the playoffs with more points than anyone after playing half of the games. Does that make them any worse? NO! They're still legendary caliber players. This is nonsense and the only people who think Giroux isn't the player he was last year are haters who want him to fail because he plays for Philly. Fact is on talent he matches any player in the league except Crosby. And even Crosby you can make cases that he's just as talented. And if someone tells me that Crosby and Malkin do it by themselves they're full of ****. They've had a very solid top 6 and top 4 for almost a decade. They're a great team with the 2 best players in the league. If you believe the players around them have nothing to do with their production then you need to watch hockey longer. This isn't basketball it's a full team game and every player on the ice matters.
I hate the Flyers as much as anyone but I don't know why Philly would ever trade Giroux unless the return was massive, and maybe not even then. I think he's among the best forwards in the league and I agree that he shouldn't be judged by 16 games.

That said, I disagree with what I've bolded above in your post. I don't think he's arguably as talented as Crosby, mainly because I think there's only one person in the league anywhere near as talented as Crosby and that's Malkin (actually I think Malkin is ahead in terms of pure natural talent but Crosby has better vision/hockey IQ/whatever and a more complete game, but this is off topic). I also don't see how anyone could claim that Crosby's wingers have had anything to do with his production. At all. Kunitz is a good player but he's not exactly going to set the world on fire with production. And Pascal Dupuis is scoring like he is because he's playing with Sid. I don't think anyone would argue he's an ideal first line winger. If memory serves the best winger Crosby has ever played with has been Hossa, and that was only for a short time after the trade deadline/playoff run. Otherwise it's been nothing but players like Kunitz, Dupuis, Armstrong, etc. I don't really see how the argument can be made that Malkin is being helped by his line mates either. Sure he's playing with James Neal now, but he won the Conn Smythe with Maxime Talbot & Ruslan Fedotenko on his wings. His left wing this year is basically just a giant soul sucking wormhole - anyone who has played there has had the lifespan of a Spinal Tap drummer. It's Malkin & Neal and nobody else and again, if anything it's Malkin upping Neal's play and not the other way around.

This is all tangential, though. tl;dr verison is that the Flyers shouldn't trade Giroux and certainly not based on a 16 game sample size.

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02-20-2013, 01:41 PM
  #249
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The fact that the Flyers traded Mike Richards...

...and he went on to win the Cup is exactly why the Flyers won't trade away Claude Giroux. They don't want to make the same mistake.
The fact that Paul Holmgren ( Bob Clarke's clone) is the G.M. doesn't mean the same mistake will be made. I just can't imagine Snider allowing such a pr mistake to be made in consecutive years, especially after the whole lock-out fiasco is still fresh in our minds.

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02-20-2013, 01:55 PM
  #250
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I have been thinking about this for a little bit. One of the only ways I would consider moving Giroux would be to Columbus for all 4 of their 1st round picks.
Columbus only has 3 unless you count their 2nd rounder which may be #30.

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