HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

It's about to get real up in here: prospect rankings from 2007-08

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2013, 07:39 PM
  #76
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,825
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
If you put an offensive defenseman out there in a strictly defensive role, you're going to regret it.
I think Kindl has the toolbox to do it, and it might be an opportunity to simplify his game a bit. Given our other options are Quincey and Lashoff...I don't really mind rolling the dice on Kindl for a couple of minutes a game.

__________________
blah, blah, blah
Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 07:44 PM
  #77
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,403
vCash: 500
I've never really understood why Babs has had such a short leash with Kindl, especially when big E was pretty brutal early on with the Wings, and Babs let him play through his rough spots.

I actually thought Kindl looked really good the last 3-4 games, I was pretty surprised to see him get benched.

Quote from Babs:

Quote:
Babcock put Kent Huskins in on defense over Jakub Kindl. "Kuba moves the puck real good but is involved in too many plays going the wrong direction," Babcock said. "Huskins doesn't move the puck the same way, but I know what he is going to do, and he gives me an extra penalty killer. That's the balance there."
Wonder if Kindl's going to get a shot to get his spot back this year, or if it's just a rotation. Hopefully he doesn't go back to just trying not to make a mistake, he seems to always play worse when this happens.

Frk It is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:05 PM
  #78
The Nose
#FireHolland
 
The Nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 6,523
vCash: 500
The problem is Lashoff. Its obvious Babs likes him a lot more than Kindl, but that's not saying much I guess.

The Nose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:26 PM
  #79
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
At what point did he disappoint you? Might it have been when he should have made Team Canada? Or are you disappointed now that he's playing very well in his first pro season?

At this point, I think his college career is irrelevant. He played a very defensive role on a very defensive team and it hurt him on paper.
Are we going to pretend we don't track performance and rank guys based on how they've done since they've been drafted? I'm not saying Sheahan is a McCollum level bust; no, far from it. What I am saying is if you look at our rankings we do here that Sheahan has not been ranked highly given his lack of production at Notre Dame. I acknowledge he's showing some really good signs this year. I hope it continues. However I'm just acknowledging public perception among the people who pay the closest attention to prospect development.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:29 PM
  #80
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
You got to watch Ericsson simply because management liked him better. The way they are treating Kindl will always blow my mind.
But why do they like him better? Does he always bring a rad spinach artichoke dip to Red Wings parties? Does he always have the best jokes that never fail to generate a big laugh? Does he just look damn fine in the Winged Wheel uni? Might it have something to do with his...I dunno...performance on the ice?

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:32 PM
  #81
The Nose
#FireHolland
 
The Nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 6,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
But why do they like him better? Does he always bring a rad spinach artichoke dip to Red Wings parties? Does he always have the best jokes that never fail to generate a big laugh? Does he just look damn fine in the Winged Wheel uni? Might it have something to do with his...I dunno...performance on the ice?
Three people have already said why. He's sleeping with Babs' wife.

The Nose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:33 PM
  #82
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I've never really understood why Babs has had such a short leash with Kindl, especially when big E was pretty brutal early on with the Wings, and Babs let him play through his rough spots.

I actually thought Kindl looked really good the last 3-4 games, I was pretty surprised to see him get benched.

Quote from Babs:



Wonder if Kindl's going to get a shot to get his spot back this year, or if it's just a rotation. Hopefully he doesn't go back to just trying not to make a mistake, he seems to always play worse when this happens.
Babcock is a blind *******.

After Kronwall and Flip gave the puck away on the game winner the other night... Your assistant captain and a veteran core player ... Babcock vents in the meda about Kindl's positioning.

It's asinine.

Babcock is losing more and more credibility each time he opens his mouth

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:34 PM
  #83
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
But why do they like him better? Does he always bring a rad spinach artichoke dip to Red Wings parties? Does he always have the best jokes that never fail to generate a big laugh? Does he just look damn fine in the Winged Wheel uni? Might it have something to do with his...I dunno...performance on the ice?
6'5

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:39 PM
  #84
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Babcock is a blind *******.

After Kronwall and Flip gave the puck away on the game winner the other night... Your assistant captain and a veteran core player ... Babcock vents in the meda about Kindl's positioning.

It's asinine.

Babcock is losing more and more credibility each time he opens his mouth
It's just funny because how many plays has Kronwall been involved in where the puck goes the other way? How many plays has Ian White been involved in going the other way in the last 2-3 games? Everyone on the team has had that problem pretty much.

To be fair he's criticized Fil quite a bit recently as well

“Fil should just finish his check on the wall and the guy skated right by him and it's all over, and when you pinch (like Ericsson did) you got to get out,'' Babcock said. “The bottom line is he skated right by a couple of us. No reason for that to happen.''

“Fil wasn't good enough last night, wasn't competitive enough, and he's got to be way better than that,'' Babcock said. “We need him. He's a significant player for us and he's got to play better than this.''


The hilarious thing to me is he has said nothing about Kronwall who looks completely overwhelmed and outmatched as a top pairing D, or Cleary who has 1 pt in 15 games playing lots of minutes. If you're going to call people out call out those who deserve it.

Frk It is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 08:57 PM
  #85
RedMenace
Zero ***** Given
 
RedMenace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 4,245
vCash: 500
I still don't know why people are comparing Kindl to Lashoff or Huskins, ESPECIALLY Babcock. Kindl's direct analogue is Quincey, pure and simple.

Seeing his quotes, it seems he's becoming more vocal in calling out specific players, and one has to wonder what's going on there. Is he trying some psychology ********? Is he actually trying to piss people off? Does he just not care anymore?

RedMenace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:02 PM
  #86
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
I still don't know why people are comparing Kindl to Lashoff or Huskins, ESPECIALLY Babcock. Kindl's direct analogue is Quincey, pure and simple.

Seeing his quotes, it seems he's becoming more vocal in calling out specific players, and one has to wonder what's going on there. Is he trying some psychology ********? Is he actually trying to piss people off? Does he just not care anymore?
I think Babs point was that Huskins brings something totally different than Kindl, and that they are not comparable. Huskins gives him a guy for the PK and who plays a simple game. Kindl is a puck-mover and a guy for the PP. At least in his eyes.

Frk It is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:04 PM
  #87
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,696
vCash: 500
I think its pretty clear that Babcock wants guys who play more of a grinding style.

Skill isn't going to earn you a spot on his roster unless you're producing pts, if you're not putting up points you better be either big, physical, a shot blocker or Dan Cleary.

FlashyG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:10 PM
  #88
Jurky
#FireHolland
 
Jurky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
I think its pretty clear that Babcock wants guys who play more of a grinding style.

Skill isn't going to earn you a spot on his roster unless you're producing pts, if you're not putting up points you better be either big, physical, a shot blocker or Dan Cleary.
Kindl is 3rd in d scoring, big and playing physical (leading d in hits per game)

Jurky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:15 PM
  #89
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Eh, I think it's safe to say Babs wasn't Jiri Hudler's biggest fan. But it didn't keep Babs from playing Hudler. Hudler had 400 NHL games and 66 playoff games as a Red Wing. Babs is not going to sacrifice winning by keeping a guy out of the lineup if he can actually contribute. He pulled Hasek in the 2008 playoffs and replaced him with Osgood. He replaced Osgood with Howard during Howard's rookie season.
Babs played Hudler because he didn't have an option. Hudler was out of minor league options. So Babcock stuck him on the fourth line, and then he was later moved to the third until his final season as a Red Wing.

Also, Babcock didn't "replace Osgood" but rather, Osgood was out with the flu and Howard came in to play a few games in a row. And Howard stayed hot; Babcock was reluctant to take him out and Osgood - who had been playing well when he went out - went cold and didn't do well in spot starts the rest of that season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Hudler was used to the best of his abilities. He largely played on a line with Filppula who is a playmaker. Hudler was expected to score goals. Hudler got top 6 time last season and was utilized mostly as a middle six offensive forward. His minutes got cut when you were ahead and grew when you were behind. Hudler also got lots of time on the power play.

Are you suggesting Huds should have been on the PK as well?
Hudler played in the top six and was expected to score goals. And he scored 23 goals at even strength, most on the team. He was one of only three players in the entire league to break 20 ESG in under 14 minutes per game. He was horribly misused on the PP though; Babcock had him playing the point for more than half of the season, when Hudler is FAR more effective at forward on the PP. So he scored 2 goals and 8 assists on the PP, giving him 25-25-50 total. He was one of only three players to score 25 goals in under 16 minutes per game.

But yeah, he was terrible at his goal-scoring role.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:18 PM
  #90
Frk It
#FireHolland
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 9,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
.

But yeah, he was terrible at his goal-scoring role.
No where in his post that you quoted did he say or even suggest that. Way to take a chance to talk about Hudler and run with it though.

Frk It is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:31 PM
  #91
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,813
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
But yeah, he was terrible at his goal-scoring role.
Where did Fabricoh say that?

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2013, 09:31 PM
  #92
FlashyG
Registered User
 
FlashyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
Kindl is 3rd in d scoring, big and playing physical (leading d in hits per game)
Being 3rd in D scoring for the Wings is like being the 3rd least handicapped at the Special Olympics, but I agree that Kindl has been far more physical this year than ever before.

I'm not sure what Babcock's problem with Kindl is, perhaps its not even from his play this season but a grudge he's held over time.

The only stat that stands out against Kindl is his turnover to takeaway ratio, but its almost identical to Ericsson's who is our ice-time leader per 60 minutes. He also hasn't found a special teams role yet, although I think he'd make a good penalty killer if given the chance.

FlashyG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 10:09 AM
  #93
RedMenace
Zero ***** Given
 
RedMenace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 4,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I think Babs point was that Huskins brings something totally different than Kindl, and that they are not comparable. Huskins gives him a guy for the PK and who plays a simple game. Kindl is a puck-mover and a guy for the PP. At least in his eyes.
Right, but that's a given. My point is if he -- or anyone -- is going to compare Kindl to another guy on the roster, it needs to be Quincey.

Of course, that hasn't happened at all. In fact, how much has Babcock actually spoken about Quincey this year?

RedMenace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 11:18 AM
  #94
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Right, but that's a given. My point is if he -- or anyone -- is going to compare Kindl to another guy on the roster, it needs to be Quincey.

Of course, that hasn't happened at all. In fact, how much has Babcock actually spoken about Quincey this year?
If you compare the two Kindl gets a much larger chunk of mins on the power play and has nothing to show for that ice time. Quincey is one of our top PK'ers. Quincey provides more "value" by being a major contributor to a specialty teams unit. So that's just not a comparison that does Kindl any favors...and I'm a guy who has loathed the Quincey trade and contract extension from the moment the trade was announced.

Harnessed in Slums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 11:35 AM
  #95
Jurky
#FireHolland
 
Jurky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
If you compare the two Kindl gets a much larger chunk of mins on the power play and has nothing to show for that ice time. Quincey is one of our top PK'ers. Quincey provides more "value" by being a major contributor to a specialty teams unit. So that's just not a comparison that does Kindl any favors...and I'm a guy who has loathed the Quincey trade and contract extension from the moment the trade was announced.

To be fair that's all on the 2nd unit which we all know is god awful.

Jurky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 11:47 AM
  #96
sepster
Registered User
 
sepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North of the 'D"
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
The internal knock on Kindl is that he is lazy. He doesn't put as much effort into training and learning the game as the team thinks he should. The Wings believe in his skill level, they don't believe in his work ethic. That is why he is on a short leash.

sepster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #97
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Who knows how good Kindl could've been or is. He is 26 years old and hasn't even played the equivalent of two NHL seasons yet.

How come we got to watch Ericsson look like pure and utter crap for an entire season as a "rookie", playing at least top 5 regular minutes, but not Kindl? How come we got to watch Brett Lebda screw up on a nightly basis, but not Kindl? What about all those nights where Derek Meech got the call, but not Kindl?
We got to watch Ericcson because he was dominant in Grand Rapids to the point bob Mackenzie said he could challenge for a norris trophy some day. He also stepped into the playoffs and played dominant. He didnt have a good rookie season but has turned into an awesome PKer and one of the wings top dmen. He also fills a role as a PKer anda guy who can scrap a bit. After showing that promise after being drafted so late and switching to D so late he exceeded expectations

Kindl was bad in GR, wasnt very good last season and just now is beginning to look a bit better. I actually think he should be playing but he hasnt lived up to his draft billing and doesnt fill a role. Hes a little physical, he moves the puck alright but is bad on special teams.

Ericcson took those playoffs, played awesome and beat up Corey Perry. Kindl has played solid but nothing to make Babcock say oh ww he provides something I absolutely need in the line up

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
There is something to be said for winning a roster spot.
For the most part, it's utter garbage.
At some point, you let a kid know that, hey, this job is yours. Go out there and play. Listen to my suggestions. Work hard. And we'll live with your mistakes if you take our suggestions to heart.
Says the guy who was going off in the Brunner thread about not earning **** to get a top 6 role. But when its a guy you like that logic doesnt apply. Shouldnt surprise me by now

newfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 12:27 PM
  #98
Flowah
#FireHolland
 
Flowah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepster View Post
The internal knock on Kindl is that he is lazy. He doesn't put as much effort into training and learning the game as the team thinks he should. The Wings believe in his skill level, they don't believe in his work ethic. That is why he is on a short leash.
This is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Flowah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #99
sepster
Registered User
 
sepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North of the 'D"
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
I didn't make that up, that came from a member of the training staff.

EDIT: Kindl is in the exact opposite position as Cleary. Cleary works really hard and does what he's told (excepting the fact that he hates Babcock and will say so on most given opportunities), so while the team sees his skills and effectiveness diminishing to almost nothing, he gets some slack (a LOT of slack, although part of that is due to a lack of veterans being healthy. If Cleary could be passed on the depth chart by veterans who have paid their dues to the organization, they'd pass him).

sepster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #100
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,813
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepster View Post
I didn't make that up, that came from a member of the training staff.

EDIT: Kindl is in the exact opposite position as Cleary. Cleary works really hard and does what he's told (excepting the fact that he hates Babcock and will say so on most given opportunities), so while the team sees his skills and effectiveness diminishing to almost nothing, he gets some slack (a LOT of slack, although part of that is due to a lack of veterans being healthy. If Cleary could be passed on the depth chart by veterans who have paid their dues to the organization, they'd pass him).
He should love him since clearly no one else would give him that much slack.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.