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Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition

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Old
02-19-2013, 11:50 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
I'm glad you provided an example of a bloated and overpaid d-corps. Pretty sure Vancouver would like some of that money spent elsewhere, even considering they don't have anywhere near the number of RFA's due for raises that we currently have.
With the exception of Ballard, all of them are worthy of those contract. That's their top 4 defensemen on a team that's won back-to-back Presidents Trophies.

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02-19-2013, 11:52 AM
  #877
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Trade Del Zotto because hes going to command $4M+ in 2 years.

Trade him for O'Reilly who is demanding that much right now.

Thats pretty zany logic.

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02-19-2013, 11:53 AM
  #878
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Jeff Gorton is going to be the Rangers GM soon. He is being groomed for the position. He negotiates UFA contracts, he's a head of player scouting and development. He runs the draft with Clark.

As soon as Glen decides to step away from the GM position and assumes only the role of President, Gorton will be named GM.

O'Reilly is exactly the kind of player he seeks. Did it in Boston, has done it here in New York.

This isn't as far fetched as some think.

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02-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
With the exception of Ballard, all of them are worthy of those contract. That's their top 4 defensemen on a team that's won back-to-back Presidents Trophies.
Agree to disagree here. Bieksa is wildly inconsistent, Garrison has had one solid year (no idea how he's doing this year), and you already mentioned Ballard.

Again, Vancouver doesn't have the number of young RFA's that are all due for raises that we do as well.

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02-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #880
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Don't like it.

Prefer to keep MDZ and Miller
Me too, but it sounds like MDZ will have to go the other way for the trade to happen.

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02-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #881
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Dumbass Avs fans think they Miller on top of MDZ for ROR is a possibility. How could one fanbase be this dumb is beyond me

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02-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Trade Del Zotto because hes going to command $4M+ in 2 years.

Trade him for O'Reilly who is demanding that much right now.

Thats pretty zany logic.
yep.

I don't get why people feel we need to change anything up here.

im pretty happy with this team by and large. give them some time, i feel confident it'll come around. especially since we've had a ridiculously hard schedule till this point.

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02-19-2013, 11:56 AM
  #883
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I take a bit of issue with that. Skjei just figured out how to play hockey at the college level.
He's also 18 years old.

Take as much issue with it as you want, it doesn't make it less factual.

Skjei is a far more intelligent player, and fundamentally sound player then Del Zotto will probably ever be. While Mike will have more offenisve skills and production. Skjei is in the mold of McDonagh.

I'll take McDonagh over Del Zotto 100 times out of 100.

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02-19-2013, 11:57 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Canucks Big 4:

Bieksa: $4,600,000
Hamhuis: $4,500,000
Garrison: $4,600,000
Edler: $5,000,000

along with:

Ballard: $4,200,000

I see no reason why we can't afford our big 4, especially when they're the most integral part of why our roster is hard to play against.
Vancouvers top 3 forwards (Sedin twins and Kesler) make a combined $17.2M. Our top 3 forwards make a combined $22M. If we were saving almost $5MM up front, I'd say you might be right, but with so much invested in our forwards, you can't compare the two teams. Our money is invested elsewhere. Edler is also making $3.25 against the cap this year. Next year they have plenty of hard decisions to make.

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02-19-2013, 11:58 AM
  #885
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It's not all about stats, for starters, and there's a financial angle to it, as well.

Stralman is in the beginning stages of his prime. He's more then capable of logging 20+ minutes.

You can not have 5 top four defensemen, getting paid like top four defensemen, in a salary capped league. Especially a salary capped league that will be having the cap ceiling drop considerably before the start of next season.
Stralman is a good D man but he cannot log 20+ minutes consistently.
Which top 5 Dman are you referring to?

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02-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #886
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Zainy?

Gorton, who has more hockey knowledge in his pinky nail then any of us do in our entire body, apparently finds enough interest in O'Reilly, that the Rangers have had active discussions involving this exact trade: Del Zotto for O'Reilly.

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02-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #887
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Stralman is a good D man but he cannot log 20+ minutes consistently.
Which top 5 Dman are you referring to?
He can't?

He has. He is.

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02-19-2013, 12:00 PM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Trade Del Zotto because hes going to command $4M+ in 2 years.

Trade him for O'Reilly who is demanding that much right now.

Thats pretty zany logic.
Does no one remember the Kyle Turris saga from a little while back? He just wants the hell out of Colorado, that bridge has been badly burned.

Even if he we did give O'Reilly $4m, it makes more sense paying a 2nd-line center that than our 4th-best defenseman.

O'Reilly would be on the first PK unit with Callahan while most likely being at least 2nd among centers in ice time. Money better spent on him than MDZ if you're looking at the big picture.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:01 PM
  #889
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Vancouvers top 3 forwards (Sedin twins and Kesler) make a combined $17.2M. Our top 3 forwards make a combined $22M. If we were saving almost $5MM up front, I'd say you might be right, but with so much invested in our forwards, you can't compare the two teams. Our money is invested elsewhere. Edler is also making $3.25 against the cap this year. Next year they have plenty of hard decisions to make.
Gaborik's contract expires once MDZ is up for a new contract though.

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02-19-2013, 12:03 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Trade Del Zotto because hes going to command $4M+ in 2 years.

Trade him for O'Reilly who is demanding that much right now.

Thats pretty zany logic.
I think the feeling is that we're going to have to shift some future money from D to forwards no matter what. If you can maximize the least of your D assets today, it makes sense to do it today.

I'm not saying I'm on board with the logic. We already turned over so much of the team. I don't really want to do any more. But I see the merits in the idea.

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02-19-2013, 12:04 PM
  #891
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This trade may never happen.

But, take into account that they have had enough negotiation for this to be reported on a few times in the last few days.

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02-19-2013, 12:06 PM
  #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Even if he we did give O'Reilly $4m, it makes more sense paying a 2nd-line center that than our 4th-best defenseman.
And pay the third line center 6.6M?

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02-19-2013, 12:07 PM
  #893
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He can't?

He has. He is.
He was during Girardi's injury.
He ain't, he can't.

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02-19-2013, 12:07 PM
  #894
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And pay the third line center 6.6M?
I think bringing in O'Reilly would be a pretty strong indication that Richards will be amnestied.

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02-19-2013, 12:08 PM
  #895
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He was during Girardi's injury.
He ain't, he can't.
He's still been doing it since Girardi came back.

I take this back. Didn't realize he played so little against Washington.

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02-19-2013, 12:08 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He's also 18 years old.

Take as much issue with it as you want, it doesn't make it less factual.

Skjei is a far more intelligent player, and fundamentally sound player then Del Zotto will probably ever be. While Mike will have more offenisve skills and production. Skjei is in the mold of McDonagh.

I'll take McDonagh over Del Zotto 100 times out of 100.
And when Del Zotto was 18 he was dominating juniors. When he was 19 he made the NHL.

I would look up the word factual if I were you. Your opinion on this is no more factual than mine.

I would take McDonagh every time over Del Zotto, too. That has nothing to do with Skjei, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He can't?

He has. He is.
See, now this is a fact. Stralman is not logging 20 minutes consistently. He's played more than 20 minutes 3 times this season.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...d=nhl-keymatch

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02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #897
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Few points:
1 - The definition of PMD. Why is that even relevant to the discussion? The bottom line is MDZ is a consistent 40 point Dman at age 22. Those do not grow on trees.
2 - We can trade for a PMD. Do you have names, what would it take to get them?
3 - I find it fascinating that we now have expert scouts on this board who can see a player at 22 and determine what his upside is limited. We also read that he is worth less than what his stats show.
4 - The same "experts" tell us that if you see RoR play he is worth more than his stats show.
5- I said this before, RoR is a luxury on this team, MDZ is a need. As it is if one of the top 4 is injured, Bickel or Eminger will have to fill in. If that ain't scary, don't know what is.
Last season the top 3 Dmen were logging 25+ minutes/game. If you trade MDZ, do you think Torts will trust Barrie or Elliott in the playoffs? Girard, McD and Staal will be logging 30+ minutes a game. Then when they run out of gas, you will be looking for scapegoats.
2) Liles may be bought out this off-season. Streit, Visnovsky, White are all UFA's. Stralman is a PMD.

3) People are doing the same thing to put down ROR's stats.

4) Same as above

5) Yet again, this is why a defenseman has to be part of the deal coming back.

Torts trusts who plays well. McDonagh was a rookie, he trusted him enough to allow the Rangers to move Rozsival.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Rangers can't afford 4 high-priced defensemen. Common sense would indicate that you keep the best of the bunch, and that group has Staal, Girardi and McDonagh ahead of MDZ.

I know people will say, "MDZ is our only PMD! We can't trade him!" However, that's a disingenuous statement at best. Staal and McDonagh are both very good puck rushers, and all members of our top-4 can make a solid outlet pass. In fact, while MDZ clearly has the best outlet pass of all of them, he's not as good as leading a rush as Staal, McDonagh, or even Stralman, IMO.

I think the thing that I was hoping for out of Del Zotto over the last year or so is that he would start showing more creativity with the puck. He's a phenomenal passer, but he lacks the creativity that separates the elite puck movers from the good ones. While he has more size and physical presence than Barrie does, I think Barrie is a better puck rusher and has more creativity. His shot isn't as hard as Del Zotto's, but it's far more accurate. Del Zotto can be a #2 in a pinch and is an excellent #3. I think Barrie is an excellent #4, but probably not much more.
Exactly this.

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02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
Gaborik's contract expires once MDZ is up for a new contract though.
Unless he re-signs for $3M per year -- which is unlikely to say the least -- we're stuck in the same situation.

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02-19-2013, 12:10 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You have your opinion.

Skjei is a FAR more intelligent player than Del Zotto. It's not even close.

Still way to early to know if that intelligence will amount to much. Pinning your hopes on Skjei now, while he's still dripping wet behind the ears is foolish.

Fasth and Lindberg are two of the top young players in the SEL.

And they ALWAYS pan out in the NHL. Good to know. I know that's a snarky response and I apologize for that, but what they are and do in the SEL has nothing to do with their ability to translate that game to the NHL. The NHL as a whole has see more of these guys fail than succeed in that regards. The only positive I take from that is that there is two of them, the odds are in our favor that one can be a 3rd/4th line player for us

Nieves is Michigan's top forward.

On a team that has 10 losses in their last 14 games and a total of 10 wins and 18 losses. 2nd to last in their own conference? He's the best player on a crappy team. Nice. I hope he developes well. More than that I hope they have a very good in coming group of players over the next 2 years. They have 5 Sr's, 6 Jr.'s and 8 SO's of those 19, you can expect that at the very LEAST 10 will not be back. They are a bad team now, what makes you think they team will be any better. I really hope that Boo developes, the future in Mich. is sketchey

McIlrath is progressing very nicely.

Willing to wait for Dylan. Guys his size take a bit to get comfortable and the knee injury set his developement back a bit.

Del Zotto, while talented, has a lot of potential, but he's wildly inconsistent, and he's going to get paid.

I have no problems with a somewhat inconsistent 22 year old that posts 40+ points a year from the defensive position when we have no one else that can do what he does, consistently or otherwise.

This is what happens in a capped league. Sacrifices need to be made. And when you can maximize value, you do it, and move forward with players continuing to be promoted and taking spots.
I agree that tough choices need to be made in a Capped world, but you do not weaken an already weak aspect of your team by trading the only guy you have that can do what MDZ does.

That makes no sense to me.

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02-19-2013, 12:11 PM
  #900
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Me too, but it sounds like MDZ will have to go the other way for the trade to happen.
and I am more than happy to NOT do that trade.

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