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Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:11 PM
  #901
dethomas07
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I rather hang on to our players then keep trading for other players... we already lost core members in AA and Dubi whether we thought they were expandable or not, they were a HUGE part of our team in previous years... They helped build our identity and i think part of the issue we face is we had a big turnover in players and everyone is trying to feel how each other plays..

nash
kreider (to an extent)
Miller
Pyatt
Powe
Halpern
Asham

vs.
Dubi
AA
Prust
Rupp
Fedotenko
Mitchell


we lost depth and players who we're either homegrown or with the organization for 2-3yrs+that knew the system and played to they're strengths.. like Pyatt playing second line.. dubi and AA were players that could be put on any top 3 lines and make an impact.. thats what we miss on that team and by us keep trading core guys we change the entire dynamic to our team.. Thats why I dont like trading core guys like MDZ for ROR... Especially for a guy whos holding out and hasn't proved much in the NHL thus far.. our guys are proven players..

And by us trade assets when we already have been trying to build a core, when does it really end..

Richards (if waives NMC) for ROR then hell yeah!! but we built our success on building our core from our organization drafts, trades etc.... I love nash but this team is already missing players like dubi and AA.. just food for thought i wonder how this team would do if they they had them both over nash.. i think we need to keep this team together as long as possible before we trade and make moves, that will continue to change team chemistry and identity..

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:12 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I agree that tough choices need to be made in a Capped world, but you do not weaken an already weak aspect of your team by trading the only guy you have that can do what MDZ does.

That makes no sense to me.
I think you could easily make the case that Del Zotto hasn't been that much better at being a PMD than any of our top 3 have been. Better? Sure. Significantly better? Maybe not.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:13 PM
  #903
NY Lito
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
And pay the third line center 6.6M?
No, pay him 2.5, which is what I think what Stepan will get.

If Richards is on this team, he's on one of the top two lines. You're right, paying 6.6 for a 3rd line center is absurd. If he's being that badly outplayed by Stepan and hypothetically O'Reilly, he'll be moved.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:14 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I think you could easily make the case that Del Zotto hasn't been that much better at being a PMD than any of our top 3 have been. Better? Sure. Significantly better? Maybe not.
Correct. People are getting too caught up in labels. "Shutdown" "Puck-moving"

People are also acting like McD and Staal are cavemen going forward up the ice.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:17 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Torts trusts who plays well. McDonagh was a rookie, he trusted him enough to allow the Rangers to move Rozsival.
Now Barrie or Elliott are in the same league McD?

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
If Richards is on this team, he's on one of the top two lines. You're right, paying 6.6 for a 3rd line center is absurd. If he's being that badly outplayed by Stepan and hypothetically O'Reilly, he'll be moved.
Just like that, huh?

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #907
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As many of you know, I am always about maximizing an asset. Whether its Gaborik when his contract is soon to be up or MDZ who I see as an overvalued commodity in todays NHL I see an opportunity for the Rangers to maximize an asset.

In MDZ's case it is because he can't play the right side and is buried behind Staal and McDonagh AND continues to have mental lapses. This is his 4th year in the NHL (at least partial season).

ROR is the type of player every team covets.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:20 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Zainy?

Gorton, who has more hockey knowledge in his pinky nail then any of us do in our entire body, apparently finds enough interest in O'Reilly, that the Rangers have had active discussions involving this exact trade: Del Zotto for O'Reilly.
Didn't Brooks report last week that the Rangers (with that same amount of hockey knowledge) backed off because of what O'Reilly is asking for? I've seen it no where but in this thread that ROR wants out of Colorado and will somehow lower his asking price for the NYR.

I agree with the premise that it's kind of crazy to balk at paying MDZ $4M in 2 years and be worried about paying too much for defense (on a defensivley built team) while promoting paying ROR $4M right now, as well as re-up Stepan next year for $2-3M AND paying Richards his ridiculous salary. Just my opinion.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Now Barrie or Elliott are in the same league McD?
What? Where did I say that?

The difference is that the Rangers have (3) horses already playing in Staal, Girardi and McDonagh who can play 25 minutes a night. Stralman can play 18-20, possibly more.

Barrie is a good young defenseman. So is McIlrath. But besides them the Rangers could find a bottom pairing defenseman capable of playing 12-15 minutes a night.

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02-19-2013, 12:22 PM
  #910
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Man the sky sure will be falling if this trade goes down.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:23 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I think you could easily make the case that Del Zotto hasn't been that much better at being a PMD than any of our top 3 have been. Better? Sure. Significantly better? Maybe not.
I think the case can also be made that the reason that he gets some much more PP time is that they trust him more in that regards than they do the other guys.

I believe he is significantly better than the other three because he is the one that Torts trusts to put out there time and again.

If he wasn't significantly better, he wouldn't play more in those situations.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:23 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
Didn't Brooks report last week that the Rangers (with that same amount of hockey knowledge) backed off because of what O'Reilly is asking for? I've seen it no where but in this thread that ROR wants out of Colorado and will somehow lower his asking price for the NYR.

I agree with the premise that it's kind of crazy to balk at paying MDZ $4M in 2 years and be worried about paying too much for defense (on a defensivley built team) while promoting paying ROR $4M right now, as well as re-up Stepan next year for $2-3M AND paying Richards his ridiculous salary. Just my opinion.
The Rangers backed off because of what Colorado was asking for in return.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:23 PM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
5) Yet again, this is why a defenseman has to be part of the deal coming back.
What's coming back is Barrie or Elliott.
If you don't think MDZ is good enough, do you think Barrie is? He is smaller and less upside than MDZ. Granted, he may have a better shot.
Elliott is still in the minors.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Just like that, huh?
Amnesty buyout?

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I think the case can also be made that the reason that he gets some much more PP time is that they trust him more in that regards than they do the other guys.

I believe he is significantly better than the other three because he is the one that Torts trusts to put out there time and again.

If he wasn't significantly better, he wouldn't play more in those situations.
I think he is better, but how much better? Staal looked great on the 2nd PP unit.

Also, I think Torts is attempting to split up the minutes. MDZ is the 3rd LD. Wouldn't make much sense to have a top-4 d-man who is capable on the PP not getting those minutes so Staal and McDonagh can get a bit of a rest.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
As many of you know, I am always about maximizing an asset. Whether its Gaborik when his contract is soon to be up or MDZ who I see as an overvalued commodity in todays NHL I see an opportunity for the Rangers to maximize an asset.

In MDZ's case it is because he can't play the right side and is buried behind Staal and McDonagh AND continues to have mental lapses. This is his 4th year in the NHL (at least partial season).

ROR is the type of player every team covets.
That I agree with, but I would think the right trade is to trade MDZ for a similar player that can play the right side, no?

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:26 PM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The Rangers backed off because of what Colorado was asking for in return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
It is not the yet undetermined cost in assets that the Blueshirts — whose three-game winning streak ended with Thursday night’s 4-3 shootout loss to the Islanders at the Garden — would have to send to the Avalanche in order to acquire the 22-year-old pivot, but rather O’Reilly’s asking price for a contract that is discouraging a pursuit by general manager Glen Sather.

O’Reilly, who recorded 55 points (18 goals, 37 assists) a year ago in the third and final season of his Entry Level contract, has rejected Colorado’s two-year offer of $3.5 million per that the Rangers would be hard pressed to improve upon, let alone match, given the team’s looming cap crunch for next season. O’Reilly also has rejected offers of up to five years with a slightly lower annual average salary.

The Rangers made it a policy, beginning in 2008-09 with Ryan Callahan and Brandon Dubinsky and continuing this year with Michael Del Zotto, to sign restricted free agents lacking salary arbitration rights to two-year “bridge” deals.
That's not what Brooks wrote.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...6m8t18w51TAc2N

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:27 PM
  #918
Kwayry
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Man the sky sure will be falling if this trade goes down.
It is not.
There is a healthy disagreement and the discussions have been informative, at least for me.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:28 PM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
What's coming back is Barrie or Elliott.
If you don't think MDZ is good enough, do you think Barrie is? He is smaller and less upside than MDZ. Granted, he may have a better shot.
Elliott is still in the minors.
Barrie would be capable of playing on the 3rd pairing. That is what the team needs if MDZ is moved.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:29 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
No, pay him 2.5, which is what I think what Stepan will get.

If Richards is on this team, he's on one of the top two lines. You're right, paying 6.6 for a 3rd line center is absurd. If he's being that badly outplayed by Stepan and hypothetically O'Reilly, he'll be moved.
Quote:
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Amnesty buyout?
That's not what you said.

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02-19-2013, 12:31 PM
  #921
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What about going after a guy like Anthony Stewart, Chris Stewarts big bro'

I forgot all about him but he fought McIlrath last night

He's buried in the minors in LA

He's 2 years removed from a 14-25-39 season and throws his body around nicely - only 28 as well

I've always felt he's had crazy potential and has been buried on bad teams, BIG body as well.

He'd slot in amazingly on the 3rd-4th lines....

I think a priority should be a Theo Peckham like player and then a Stewart like player (maybe Mashinter can be that guy however)

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Gaborik - Richards - Callahan
Pyatt - Boyle - Miller
Stewart/Asham - Halpern - Stewart/Mashinter

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - DelZotto
Straalman - Peckham


With Peckham and Stewart it regulate Asham to not playing everyday because we won't lack toughness without him in the lineup, plus Stewart has some hands and will provide more offensive pop in our bottom 6.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:31 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I think the case can also be made that the reason that he gets some much more PP time is that they trust him more in that regards than they do the other guys.

I believe he is significantly better than the other three because he is the one that Torts trusts to put out there time and again.

If he wasn't significantly better, he wouldn't play more in those situations.
You know, aside from the 3 games prior to Sunday where DZ was benched for the powerplays.

That's not serious. Obviously the coach was trying to shake some sense into DZ and that's fine. But putting him out there time and again makes him solidly the best option from Tortorella's point of view. It doesn't make him the significantly better than the other options. Just better.

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02-19-2013, 12:31 PM
  #923
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Do people just not realize the incredible leaps of faith that are being made to justify this type of deal working out?

Cant wait until the next guy becomes available - maybe those discussions will center around something more feasible.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:31 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
That I agree with, but I would think the right trade is to trade MDZ for a similar player that can play the right side, no?
If the Rangers feel they can trade for a future puck-mover like Barrie while getting a top-6 center back wouldn't that make more sense? Fill (2) future needs with (1) player leaving.

Quote:
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I read from Friedman that the Rangers were interested until the Avs kept asking for more which is why they backed off.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #925
NY Lito
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's not what you said.
He'll be moved, as in off the team, whether it's a buyout or trade.

Richie-O'Reilly-Stepan is, IMO, better than keeping MDZ around for the same amount of dollars. It's better management.

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