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Old
02-19-2013, 09:54 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Because O'Reilly already is what we hope Zibanejad might one day become? Plus he's only 22 and has more upside still. Zibanejad is far from a sure thing and is a major project considering all his developmental humps.

Rumors are that O'Reilly isn't signing any offer sheets because he's worried that Colorado will match. Just a rumour though that has been filtering through the boards. He really wants out of Colorado.
Has anyone confirmed the rumor that RFAs become UFAs after 2 years without a contract? If so that puts a lot of pressure on Colorado to get a deal done soon, otherwise it may be in ROR's best interest to hold out a little longer so that he can choose his destination and increase his salary, especially since the team wouldn't have to spend any assets to acquire him.

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02-19-2013, 09:56 AM
  #177
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Why even flip Ziba+ for ROR? Is it that difficult to wait for Ziba to develop. I think Colorado wins that trade.
Zib won't be near as good. Lacks heart at this point. Maybe later he'll develop it, but who knows. He's not skilled enough to be a skill top 6 guy like Turris or Spezza and lacks the jam to be a power forward like Fisher was.

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02-19-2013, 11:47 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Zib won't be near as good. Lacks heart at this point. Maybe later he'll develop it, but who knows. He's not skilled enough to be a skill top 6 guy like Turris or Spezza and lacks the jam to be a power forward like Fisher was.
There is so much wrong with the post that I will assume you're just trolling

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:04 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
The Sens D is much more imposing with him. I look forward to seeing Cowen, Methot, Gryba, Weircoich, Karlsson, Phillips and hopefully Boro next year.
Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-Wiercioch
Phillips-Gryba
Borowiecki

Then the following year, Ceci, Sdao and Wikstrand will start auditioning for the team, maybe even earlier (maybe others)

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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
yip, gryba has been fine.

grant has been ok to invisible. dd has been meh.

once (if) regin comes back i'd like to see grant and dd go back to ahl. zib, greening, regin offer a bit more than either of the two.
Unimpressed with DD (don't see the NHL upside there) and I think Grant is not NHL ready

Can't wait to have some of Regin, Michalek and Latendresse back

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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Newspaper today (http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/02/18/...-on-sens-radar). Avs looking for roster player, prospect and a pick. Someone yesterday was indicating Michalek was a trade target so I assume would be a piece under discussion with this.

Michalek, Wiercioch (played University of Denver), 1st would be a strong offer I think to get him. I'd hate to give our 1st, but Avs would love to get 2 in the Top 10 this draft I'm sure.
Wait... You'd be ready to give up :

- Michalek : a 2-way 1st line speedy winger who has been outproducing O'Reilly most of his career. Michalek has been our best goal scorer in the last 3 years, outscoring Spezza and Alfredsson

- Wiercioch : not a "throw-in prospect", has serious offensive/2-way top-4 D-man potential. His value is assuredly more than a 2nd rounder

- 1st : We're missing our top-2 forwards and top-2 defenders for a while. You think it would be a good idea to move our first round pick? Not a chance this happens with Murray, unless we're talking about a young star player.


?????????????????

Michalek for RoR would be fine but a lateral move for us. The Avs would jump on that to solve the situation.

I'm not sure what I'd give up

Greening + Wiercioch + 2nd (but we don't have any 2nd this year)

It might not be enough but it's closer than the offer you were talking about. All it takes is the Avs to be high on those guys.

O'Reilly is young yes, but has 1 good season where he scored 18 goals. Greening scored 17 goals in his rookie season. I'm not saying Greening is as valuable but he is not holding out on his team and asking unreasonable money... This is a factor that brings down RoR value a bit...

I think Wiercioch's value is underrated around here. I see more potential than in Rundblad, and Rundblad + 2nd got us Turris (which was an heck of an overpayment according to the Sens HF faithful)

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02-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Patizzie View Post
There is so much wrong with the post that I will assume you're just trolling
He must be haha how could he possibly know 'he lacks heart' what a ridiculous statement.

The sens arent getting older this season... I am not sure if you have noticed but they are missing the two best players on the team likely for the season and have a plethora of other injuries. Like it or not this is a rebuilding year, it also happens to be an unbelievable draft if this team finishs bottom three they are likely to be guaranteed a franchise player.

Id do something like Bishop, Greening and puemple/hoffman for O'Reilly but thats it.

Someone was suggesting Michalek, Weircioch and our first im assuming this would be for Duchene? Like even then i wouldnt do it this years first rounder is worth more then R'O'R in the first place. I am not sold on his offense he has never scored alot outside of last year even in JR.


Last edited by bert: 02-19-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-Wiercioch
Phillips-Gryba
Borowiecki

Then the following year, Ceci, Sdao and Wikstrand will start auditioning for the team, maybe even earlier (maybe others)



Unimpressed with DD (don't see the NHL upside there) and I think Grant is not NHL ready

Can't wait to have some of Regin, Michalek and Latendresse back



Wait... You'd be ready to give up :

- Michalek : a 2-way 1st line speedy winger who has been outproducing O'Reilly most of his career. Michalek has been our best goal scorer in the last 3 years, outscoring Spezza and Alfredsson

- Wiercioch : not a "throw-in prospect", has serious offensive/2-way top-4 D-man potential. His value is assurely more than a 2nd rounder

- 1st : We're missing our top-2 forwards and top-2 defenders for a while. You think it would be a good idea to move our first round pick? Not a chance this happens with Murray, unless we're talking about a young star player.


?????????????????

Michalek for RoR would be fine but a lateral move for us. The Avs would jump on that to solve the situation.

I'm not sure what I'd give up

Greening + Wiercioch + 2nd (but we don't have any 2nd this year)

It might not be enough but it's closer than the offer you were talking about.

O'Reilly is young yes, but has 1 good season where he scored 18 goals. Greening scored 17 goals in his rookie season. I'm not saying Greening is as valuable but he is not holding out on his team and asking unreasonable money... This is a factor that brings down RoR value a bit...

I think Wiercioch's value is underrated around here. I see more potential than in Rundblad, and Rundblad + 2nd got us Turris (which was an heck of an overpayment according to the Sens HF faithful)
I think it brings his value down quite a bit.

From what I have read ROR is looking for $5M for 5 years, which means he will be a UFA at the end of the deal.

Based on his current approach it is highly likely he will just seek the highest bidder at that time.

IMO few GMs, if any, pay what Sherman is asking since the risks are obvious.

Something like the Rundblad/Turris deal will probably get it done eventually.

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02-19-2013, 01:23 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert View Post
Someone was suggesting Michalek, Weircioch and our first im assuming this would be for Duchene? Like even then i wouldnt do it this years first rounder is worth more then R'O'R in the first place. I am not sold on his offense he has never scored alot outside of last year even in JR.
I would do it for Duchene though

Duchene-Spezza-Zibanejad
Silfverberg-Turris-Stone
Smith-Da Costa-Neil
Greening-O'Brien-Condra
Grant

Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-UFA
Phillips-Gryba
Borowiecki

Anderson
Lehner

UFA : We'd need to sign a D-man like Lubomir Visnovsky or Mark Streit while Ceci and Vikstrand develop


Who doesn't like the potential of that line-up? Not sure the Avs would do it but a package of Michalek, Wiercioch + our first is worth a ton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I think it brings his value down quite a bit.

From what I have read ROR is looking for $5M for 5 years, which means he will be a UFA at the end of the deal.

Based on his current approach it is highly likely he will just seek the highest bidder at that time.

IMO few GMs, if any, pay what Sherman is asking since the risks are obvious.

Something like the Rundblad/Turris deal will probably get it done eventually.
Yup... Who is willing to give him Getzlaf/Perry/Spezza/Heatley/Kessel RFA money??? Is he in the same tier as those guys were? I know the cap was a bit less (IIRC around 54.3 when those deals were signed) but the projected cap next year is about 64.3

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:44 PM
  #183
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He must be haha how could he possibly know 'he lacks heart' what a ridiculous statement .
Watch his face pre-game. He looks blank and lackadaisical. Watch his shifts. Not much intensity being shown there. Most of his shifts he looks like he's figure skating around with a hockey stick in his hands.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:51 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Watch his face pre-game. He looks blank and lackadaisical. Watch his shifts. Not much intensity being shown there. Most of his shifts he looks like he's figure skating around with a hockey stick in his hands.
Maybe he has heard that he is being dangled as trade bait?

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:00 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Zib won't be near as good. Lacks heart at this point. Maybe later he'll develop it, but who knows. He's not skilled enough to be a skill top 6 guy like Turris or Spezza and lacks the jam to be a power forward like Fisher was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patizzie View Post
There is so much wrong with the post that I will assume you're just trolling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Watch his face pre-game. He looks blank and lackadaisical. Watch his shifts. Not much intensity being shown there. Most of his shifts he looks like he's figure skating around with a hockey stick in his hands.
LOL!

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:16 PM
  #186
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I would do it for Duchene though

Duchene-Spezza-Zibanejad
Silfverberg-Turris-Stone
Smith-Da Costa-Neil
Greening-O'Brien-Condra
Grant

Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-UFA
Phillips-Gryba
Borowiecki

Anderson
Lehner

UFA : We'd need to sign a D-man like Lubomir Visnovsky or Mark Streit while Ceci and Vikstrand develop


Who doesn't like the potential of that line-up? Not sure the Avs would do it but a package of Michalek, Wiercioch + our first is worth a ton.
Lots of potential but for some of the guys too much too soon most likely. We also both know Sherman isn't moving Duchene, specially considering he has bounced back and the situation with ROR.

IMO the Sens need to get another top six, not exchange one for another. Now I realize that is a tough task, but if the Sens are going to accelerate the rebuild Murray has to find a partner that needs to move salary or wants to initiate a rebuild.

Personally I dislike any lineup proposal that has a UFA slotted in as an answer to a gapping hole.

Targetting and signing UFAs isn't in anyway predictable, even if the team is willing to significantly overpay.

I suppose I believe it's better to have a lesser but certain advantage than the possibility of a greater one that may come to nothing.

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:50 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Watch his face pre-game. He looks blank and lackadaisical. Watch his shifts. Not much intensity being shown there. Most of his shifts he looks like he's figure skating around with a hockey stick in his hands.
The issue I have with him is his puck control and his balance.

I can see him trying hard, he just wipes out too often or has the puck knocked off his stick.

As a power forward, he's called upon to maintain possession in the dirty areas of the ice.

As a skilled forward, he needs the balance to be able to keep possession even under defensive pressure.

He skates like an unmade bed. I like his reach (e.g. like a Jordan Staal) and his shot release, but I think there's a lot of work required.

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Old
02-25-2013, 12:06 PM
  #188
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So I've been in the Caribbean for the past two weeks, out of touch with hockey news. I come back to see some new names in the line up for tonight and poke around on here to find this recalled/assigned thread to get the scoop.

Early in the thread, everyone is all down on the changes, saying the team is tanking, they are getting ready for a trade, etc.. Generally disappointed with the whole situation.

But I only know that the team has been playing great (by virtue of a four game win streak, the only measurement I have without seeing the games...). Just an interesting juxtaposition is all.

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02-25-2013, 06:21 PM
  #189
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The Sens are playing for first place in the East tonight with their best players missing with injuries. Why do some of you want to give away some of these players who have been playing so well in their abasence for one guy who may or may not do well with us. Look at some of the guys who have been traded, Nash for example hasn't done anything with NY yet. There is no guarantee that ROR would do well with us or mess up the chemistry. I say wait until the price comes down, wait until the deadline when someone else may be available that won't be as expensive. And I certainly wouldn't give up guys who are playing key roles with this team.

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02-25-2013, 09:48 PM
  #190
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The Sens are playing for first place in the East tonight with their best players missing with injuries. Why do some of you want to give away some of these players who have been playing so well in their abasence for one guy who may or may not do well with us. Look at some of the guys who have been traded, Nash for example hasn't done anything with NY yet. There is no guarantee that ROR would do well with us or mess up the chemistry. I say wait until the price comes down, wait until the deadline when someone else may be available that won't be as expensive. And I certainly wouldn't give up guys who are playing key roles with this team.
tru dat. i was scared shirtless when some of the rumours came out about the packages ottawa was considering for nash. now the ror thing. i agree, lets see what we got before trying to splash on a shiny new thing.

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02-25-2013, 09:57 PM
  #191
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Dziurzynski is great.

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02-25-2013, 09:59 PM
  #192
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Dziurzynski is great.
Thank you, thank you very much ... I'll let him know.

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Old
02-26-2013, 06:28 AM
  #193
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Dziurzynski hit everything last night.

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Old
02-26-2013, 06:37 AM
  #194
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The issue I have with him is his puck control and his balance.

I can see him trying hard, he just wipes out too often or has the puck knocked off his stick.

As a power forward, he's called upon to maintain possession in the dirty areas of the ice.

As a skilled forward, he needs the balance to be able to keep possession even under defensive pressure.

He skates like an unmade bed. I like his reach (e.g. like a Jordan Staal) and his shot release, but I think there's a lot of work required.
I'm sure that Mark Power et al. are working on his balance. His decision-making without the puck has gotten much better. I bet his power and balance get better this year and into next.

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Old
02-26-2013, 08:14 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
The Sens are playing for first place in the East tonight with their best players missing with injuries. Why do some of you want to give away some of these players who have been playing so well in their abasence for one guy who may or may not do well with us. Look at some of the guys who have been traded, Nash for example hasn't done anything with NY yet. There is no guarantee that ROR would do well with us or mess up the chemistry. I say wait until the price comes down, wait until the deadline when someone else may be available that won't be as expensive. And I certainly wouldn't give up guys who are playing key roles with this team.
In his defense, Nash has been the best Rangers forward this season prior to his injury. He was pretty clearly the best player skating for them in most games and is still leading the team in points (which isn't exactly saying much this season).

I agree with not wanting to see the Sens give up prospects at this point.

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Old
02-26-2013, 08:47 AM
  #196
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Have to agree with the last statement, but the issue is slowly raising it's head about how many really good prospects can we actually develop or young guys who MacLean needs to fit into his sytem.

Last year it was Greening, Condra, Daugavins, O'Brien, Cowen and to a lesser extent Turris, Smith and Bishop.

This year its Silfverberg, Zibanejad and we can throw in Dziurzynski, Wiercioch, Benoit, Gryba, with Borowiecki, DaCosta, Grant and Lehner getting a taste.

And that's not counting Stone and Hoffman who are injured and will chomp to get a shot as well. Add to them next year's crop and that's a huge amount of depth we just do not have open places for.

Assuming a Top 6 that is built around Spezza, Michalek, Alfredsson, Turris and Silfverberg (at this point); that's one slot open.

And a bottom 6 built around Smith, Neil, Zibanejad; that's four spots open including the 13th possible.

The pool to fill that includes all of the above, so something has to give or we'll give guys away for nothing - which I doubt Murray will/should do. And of the UFA/RFA guys, most will not get 2 way deals any more.

And that's before we look at D and in nets.

Some of these guys will have to be moved, and deciding exactly which ones must be a hard thing to do. Hope Murray has a clear crystall ball.

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Old
02-26-2013, 10:02 AM
  #197
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Gryba currently tied for 1st among rookies in ES TOI/G. Makes some mistakes, but playing that many tough mins as a rookie is impressive.

Struggled against Montreal's speed, but so do most big guys.

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