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Subban's play since coming back

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02-19-2013, 12:35 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
i never compared pk to those players

I said that noone criticized those defensemen when they were rushing the puck.
Can you make the distinction between bringing up other defensemen as an example of defensemen that rushed the puck and actually comparing the players to subban?

i love how thats what you draw from my argument and not the fact that
a) these players were not criticized and
b) these players had the supporting staff that made their rushes beneficial to the team

but no, in your mind i compared the players...completely missing my point.

its like arguing with a kid as to why he cant have ice cream for dinner
huh... who named them ?

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02-19-2013, 12:37 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
If PK is rushing the puck and has a green light and 99.9% of the time it ends up with him deep left and no where to go and turns into a nothing play, should some one else do something about it? Here we have a good skating , stick handling offensive defense man rushing the puck. (inside forwards head" mmmm PK rushing he will go deep, the score is 1- 0 for them, offensive chance, mmmm I 'll go to the bench, whew safe from scrutiny!) 99.9% of the time, you should be screaming for his team mates to get a clue!
Exactly. If he went right instead of left I think he'd get MANY more options to do once in the deep zone... not sure why he always goes left, maybe the opponents figured that out.

He's GREAT at carrying the puck, but it always ends the same way Gomez's rushes ended.

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02-19-2013, 12:38 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
Really? I find it hard to believe that anyone could have a problem with PK's last few games. His "jr stuff" is what sets him apart from the rest. It's a big part of what makes him a special player. Along with everything else he's done to help the team win. The fact that Karlson parlayed his offensive flair into a 70-point season means what exactly in this conversation? That PK is not good enough to rush the puck and Karlson is?
ask the people who keep bringing his name up...

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02-19-2013, 12:41 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Sure, that's why you're all ready to jump on someone for the simple fact s/he said P.K. made a mistake, get over yourselves. And that includes you and your I know it all B.S. You're no smarter than most here, au contraire.

See, that's where the problem is... dangling in his own zone, inches away from the net isnt a mistake to you, that's what you believe... well, thing is, he did end up giving away the puck to the opponent. Wich should be a mistake by your logic (unless he got stopped as you said, well HE DID)... So was it a mistake or was it not Einstein ?
Never jumped on anybody that said PK made a mistake, that's why I specifically wrote that he made some mistakes.
I don't know it all, but for some reason you have this anger towards me.
I argued with HZ that OEL and PK were on par, that it was my own observation just as he has his own, however the advanced stats backed me up. So, I'm backing my theory up with objective facts, while the other guy is admittedly saying he's subjective as he's only basing his opinion through the eyes from his TV. Yet, I'm the one that has this ''know it all BS'' attitude and think I'm smarter. Sure..that makes sense.

Apparently this means I'm a PK homer, that I think he's God, and that he can do no harm...

For someone that is lecturing someone else on not being smarter than anyone else, you certainly aren't making a strong case for yourself. Let go of this hate, and breathe. You sound like a baby.
I never once said PK is god, or mistake free.

I said the risky play in his zone wasn't a mistake because he didn't get stopped, the pass was off, that's the mistake and this could be attributed to either PK or the receiver, would have to look at the replay. Just like MaxPac's dump before the red line isn't a mistake as it resulted in a goal. Had it been an icing however, it would have been one.
Both of those plays are just risky ones. PK got through the opponents but there was a passing mistake after, MaxPac scored a goal from before the red line.

I don't have a problem with PK taking risks, that's the way he plays. I said his timing is still off, he still needs to figure out when it's a risk worth taking or not. So I really don't understand how you got this ''PK is god'' idea...I mean really, you clearly haven't read my posts, and if you did, it certainly was selective reading.


In any event, it's not because he took a high risk play, one that you consider a mistake, that he had a bad game, which was my whole point. Arguing over semantics is useless. You think it was a mistake, I don't for a very specific reason. I apply that reason to every other NHLer, not just PK, so it's not ''homerism'' as you'd like to say.
Again, point still stands, he played a great game.


Last edited by Kriss E: 02-19-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 12:48 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
ask the people who keep bringing his name up...
To refute someone's argument, YOU brought up the fact that he had 70+ points last year. What were you trying to say?

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02-19-2013, 12:58 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Never jumped on anybody that said PK made a mistake, that's why I specifically wrote that he made some mistakes.
I don't know it all, but for some reason you have this anger towards me.
I argued with HZ that OEL and PK were on par, that it was my own observation just as he has his own, however the advanced stats backed me up. So, I'm backing my theory up with objective facts, while the other guy is admittedly saying he's subjective as he's only basing his opinion through the eyes from his TV. Yet, I'm the one that has this ''know it all BS'' attitude and think I'm smarter. Sure..that makes sense.

Apparently this means I'm a PK homer, that I think he's God, and that he can do no harm...

For someone that is lecturing someone else on not being smarter than anyone else, you certainly aren't making a strong case for yourself. Let go of this hate, and breathe. You sound like a baby.
I never once said PK is god, or mistake free.

I said the risky play in his zone wasn't a mistake because he didn't get stopped, the pass was off, that's the mistake and this could be attributed to either PK or the receiver, would have to look at the replay. Just like MaxPac's dump before the red line isn't a mistake as it resulted in a goal. Had it been an icing however, it would have been one.
Both of those plays are just risky ones. PK got through the opponents but there was a passing mistake after, MaxPac scored a goal from before the red line.

I don't have a problem with PK taking risks, that's the way he plays. I said his timing is still off, he still needs to figure out when it's a risk worth taking or not. So I really don't understand how you got this ''PK is god'' idea...I mean really, you clearly haven't read my posts, and if you did, it certainly was selective reading.


In any event, it's not because he took a high risk play, one that you consider a mistake, that he had a bad game, which was my whole point. Arguing over semantics is useless. You think it was a mistake, I don't for a very specific reason. I apply that reason to every other NHLer, not just PK, so it's not ''homerism'' as you'd like to say.
Again, point still stands, he played a great game.
no hate here. Couldnt be more wrong. Again.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:00 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
To refute someone's argument, YOU brought up the fact that he had 70+ points last year. What were you trying to say?
you really want me to awnser that ? really ?

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02-19-2013, 01:02 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Never jumped on anybody that said PK made a mistake, that's why I specifically wrote that he made some mistakes.
I don't know it all, but for some reason you have this anger towards me.
I argued with HZ that OEL and PK were on par, that it was my own observation just as he has his own, however the advanced stats backed me up. So, I'm backing my theory up with objective facts, while the other guy is admittedly saying he's subjective as he's only basing his opinion through the eyes from his TV. Yet, I'm the one that has this ''know it all BS'' attitude and think I'm smarter. Sure..that makes sense.

Apparently this means I'm a PK homer, that I think he's God, and that he can do no harm...

For someone that is lecturing someone else on not being smarter than anyone else, you certainly aren't making a strong case for yourself. Let go of this hate, and breathe. You sound like a baby.
I never once said PK is god, or mistake free.

I said the risky play in his zone wasn't a mistake because he didn't get stopped, the pass was off, that's the mistake and this could be attributed to either PK or the receiver, would have to look at the replay. Just like MaxPac's dump before the red line isn't a mistake as it resulted in a goal. Had it been an icing however, it would have been one.
Both of those plays are just risky ones. PK got through the opponents but there was a passing mistake after, MaxPac scored a goal from before the red line.

I don't have a problem with PK taking risks, that's the way he plays. I said his timing is still off, he still needs to figure out when it's a risk worth taking or not. So I really don't understand how you got this ''PK is god'' idea...I mean really, you clearly haven't read my posts, and if you did, it certainly was selective reading.


In any event, it's not because he took a high risk play, one that you consider a mistake, that he had a bad game, which was my whole point. Arguing over semantics is useless. You think it was a mistake, I don't for a very specific reason. I apply that reason to every other NHLer, not just PK, so it's not ''homerism'' as you'd like to say.
Again, point still stands, he played a great game.
guess he was flashy enough to consider his game great, to each his own I guess.

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02-19-2013, 01:02 PM
  #434
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Subban is a great young dman!!! so glad he is in Montreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-19-2013, 01:03 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
no hate here. Couldnt be more wrong. Again.
Find that hard to believe when you keep fabricating things like me saying PK is mistake free when I flat out said the exact opposite. Not only that, but you add sarcastic insults.
If it's not hate than it's immaturity. Take your pick.

I will give you credit though on your ability to focus on a small sentence that has very little to do with the actual discussion and ignore all other points.
You are very good at doing that.


Last edited by Kriss E: 02-19-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 01:08 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
guess he was flashy enough to consider his game great, to each his own I guess.
I don't think PK was flashy at all.
He made a few mistakes (like every other player on the Habs), but he was solid defensively, his ability to shake off opponents chasing him is remarkable. Wasn't overly impressive on the PP either, but neither was Markov, or anybody else.
Other than one or two risky dangles in his zone, he kept things simple and dished out good passes.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Find that hard to believe when you keep fabricating things like me saying PK is mistake free when I flat out said the exact opposite. Not only that, but you add sarcastic insults.
If it's not hate than it's immaturity. Take your pic.

I will give you credit though on your ability to focus on a small sentence that has very little to do with the actual discussion and ignore all other points.
You are very good at doing that.
I personally think that Subban is the Habs most reliable defensman, he's the strongest on the puck and is the best at clearing the zone either himself or with an intelligent dump that's either high up the ice and doesn't cause an icing (for the most part).

But I also think Subban is the defensman who's mistakes are the most amplified...the lights are always shining on Subban, sometimes that's good, other times it's bad

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02-19-2013, 01:12 PM
  #438
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Also another thing...the standard PK set for himself when he first arrived on the Habs during the playoffs and proceeded to arguably be the Habs best dmen, was set so high

everyone expects perfection out of him at all times...anything less he gets criticized for

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02-19-2013, 03:15 PM
  #439
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Enough with the personal attacks. Talk about Subban and not each other please.

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02-19-2013, 03:21 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Also another thing...the standard PK set for himself when he first arrived on the Habs during the playoffs and proceeded to arguably be the Habs best dmen, was set so high

everyone expects perfection out of him at all times...anything less he gets criticized for
I agree with your opinion on this matter.

BTW football avatar on a hockey forum...does not compute.

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02-19-2013, 03:24 PM
  #441
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Not sure if anyone else has noticed, maybe I'm just imagining things, but Subban's been making some real intelligent passes lately. Creative passing, imo, has never really been his game, but he seems to have added it to his arsenal. I've seen him make a few passes not unlike the one Markov fed Pleks with at the beginning of the season (fake slapper to pass). The pass he fed to pleks yesterday when he got out of the box was also real nice. I really didn't think he'd get it through.

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02-19-2013, 03:37 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Enough with the personal attacks. Talk about Subban and not each other please.
Being a new mod, I bet that felt good.

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02-19-2013, 03:39 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
nobody criticizes karlsson for rushing the puck like he does, nobody criticized green, nobody criticized the coffeys and the leetches and the chelioses the niedermeyer because guess what, the rest of the team kept up with them.
Subban doesn't have the vision of these players. You might say is teammates are dead weight, I say PK himself doesn't really know what he's doing so he ends up pulling a Gomez.

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02-19-2013, 03:39 PM
  #444
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I personally think that Subban is the Habs most reliable defensman, he's the strongest on the puck and is the best at clearing the zone either himself or with an intelligent dump that's either high up the ice and doesn't cause an icing (for the most part).

But I also think Subban is the defensman who's mistakes are the most amplified...the lights are always shining on Subban, sometimes that's good, other times it's bad
He's a better blueliner than Markov is right now. A few pages ago people were talking about 'hockeysense' well, PK has it. He's not the PP QB that Markov is but I think he's better in ever other facet of the game.

He's better defensively and plays the man instead of the puck. He's a better skater, better shot, brings the puck in better... The guy is the real deal. Markov is and always will be the master of the PP. There's just no getting around that but PK is our best blueliner. And I think he will be for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Joe View Post
Subban doesn't have the vision of these players. You might say is teammates are dead weight, I say PK himself doesn't really know what he's doing so he ends up pulling a Gomez.
He's much better than he was at the beginning of last year and is improving rapidly. Every rushing blueliner is going to have a Gomez moment. You only notice it more here because you see him every night...

Takes fewer chances, makes smarter plays... he's really come a long way.

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02-19-2013, 03:48 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you really want me to awnser that ? really ?
If you're up to it, sure.

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02-19-2013, 04:05 PM
  #446
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If you're up to it, sure.
Hall of famers
Norris winners (multiple)
70+ pts d-men

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02-19-2013, 08:49 PM
  #447
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Subban's ice time is really taking a hit.

He's dead last tonight in ice time...

We're winning so I can't complain too much, but I don't get it.

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02-19-2013, 08:54 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Subban's ice time is really taking a hit.

He's dead last tonight in ice time...

We're winning so I can't complain too much, but I don't get it.
Made a few costly mistake tonight. The first goal was him failing to cover an opposing players rushing to his side.

In the third he tripped and it almost resulted in a goal for the Rangers. Can't say I can blame him on this one though.

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02-19-2013, 08:57 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
Made a few costly mistake tonight. The first goal was him failing to cover an opposing players rushing to his side.

In the third he tripped and it almost resulted in a goal for the Rangers. Can't say I can blame him on this one though.
What happened in the 3rd was a skate issue.

The Rangers goal was one of the 3 guys in front watching Stalman skate by.

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02-19-2013, 08:58 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
Made a few costly mistake tonight. The first goal was him failing to cover an opposing players rushing to his side.

In the third he tripped and it almost resulted in a goal for the Rangers. Can't say I can blame him on this one though.
Here we go over-analyzing his mistakes while ignoring the mistakes of others. The 1st goal was moreso Cole's fault but PK deserved some of the blame there.

Still, are we really going to play this guy like a 6th d-man and cut his ice time when he makes mistakes?

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