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My thoughts on the trade that was (and the trade that wasn't)

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Old
12-17-2003, 06:42 PM
  #51
Narnia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
I think that your level of surprise is the most shocking thing here Miz.

Woywitka's name is one of the most frequent names to appear on this message board, and the trade was very similar to the Ducks offer which KLo felt wasn't enough coming from a western team.

Was anyone else shocked by the trade at all?


I don't disagree with your evaluation of the overall deal, except to say that there weren't going to be any valuable "here and now" assets that would be considered an upgrade over our current top 6 forwards or top 4 d. Not for a defensively and vertically challenged malcontent with a bigger ego than Bobby Clarke. The Oil aren't lacking in depth at all so a combo of mediocre fwds/d-men would just be waste of time.

Personally I would have rather seen Carter or Getzlaf but obviously Comrie wasn't enough to get us any of those guys.
The trade with Anaheim was actually worse than we thought. Edmonton would have had add a draft pick in addition to Comrie.

http://www.canada.com/edmonton/sport...1-9A4404FC844F

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Old
12-17-2003, 07:15 PM
  #52
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<b>To Edmonton: Mike Ricci & Jim Fahey

To San Jose: Mike Comrie & Marc-Andre Bergeron

Ricci is a UFA-to-be (I'm thinking the Oilers would resign him), Comrie an RFA, Fahey and Bergeron are similar players, both young, but Fahey is obviously much better.

Comments?
</b>

From the Comrie trade rumors post.

You genuinely believe that getting;
1) Adam Oates
2) Jeff Wow.
3) Late First Round pick
4) Late Third Round pick.

was not good compensation for Comrie?

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:07 AM
  #53
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor
<b>To Edmonton: Mike Ricci & Jim Fahey

To San Jose: Mike Comrie & Marc-Andre Bergeron

Ricci is a UFA-to-be (I'm thinking the Oilers would resign him), Comrie an RFA, Fahey and Bergeron are similar players, both young, but Fahey is obviously much better.

Comments?
</b>

From the Comrie trade rumors post.

You genuinely believe that getting;
1) Adam Oates
2) Jeff Wow.
3) Late First Round pick
4) Late Third Round pick.

was not good compensation for Comrie?
Apperantly you didn't read my original post.

Value wise, the deal isn't bad.

However, you consider the fact that the team didn't get a player that can improve the team now.

Don't give me the Oates stuff. He was aquired before Comrie, and was not part of the trade. That's like saying, 'Ales Hemsky, Jared Stoll, MA Bergeron, Jeff Woywitka, 1st and a 3rd is not good enough for Mike Comrie!'. Besides, it's not like Oates has done a whole lot to improve the team (yet at least).

As for Ricci and Fahey, well, I think Fahey is about as good as Woywitka, and a guy like Ricci is much more valuable than the picks. Especially considering he'll likely be making more around $2 million next year (or the year after, whenever the CBA is finished), which is closer to what he should be making. Futhermore, it'd improve the team in the here and now better than the 4 assets above.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:13 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Apperantly you didn't read my original post.

Value wise, the deal isn't bad.

However, you consider the fact that the team didn't get a player that can improve the team now.

Don't give me the Oates stuff. He was aquired before Comrie, and was not part of the trade. That's like saying, 'Ales Hemsky, Jared Stoll, MA Bergeron, Jeff Woywitka, 1st and a 3rd is not good enough for Mike Comrie!'. Besides, it's not like Oates has done a whole lot to improve the team (yet at least).

As for Ricci and Fahey, well, I think Fahey is about as good as Woywitka, and a guy like Ricci is much more valuable than the picks. Especially considering he'll likely be making more around $2 million next year (or the year after, whenever the CBA is finished), which is closer to what he should be making. Futhermore, it'd improve the team in the here and now better than the 4 assets above.
Oates was acquired when it became very apparant that Comrie wasn't going to be an Oiler, and that the Oilers weren't going to get a top 6 forwad or top 2 defenceman for him.

Ricci is wonderful, but he isn't a top 6 forward. He is a checking line centre, and the last thing the Oilers need is another "checker". Also, Ricci is a UFA, and like you mentioned (when it was convinient for your arguments), we really don't know what the new CBA will hold.

Fahey may be better than Wyowitka, but is he substantially better than Bergeron? Not too sure about that, so in the end, it is a deal, Comrie straight up for Ricci...

And this sounds reasonable to you?

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:17 AM
  #55
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
But they obviously never had any chance to get a top-6 forward or top-4 d-man. If it was possible, it would have been done.
Hey Seachd

Anyways, this assumption you make is what I take issue with. He couldn't? Or you just don't think he could have?

What's to say he couldn't have gotten a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman in say, February? Maybe a teams' top line centreman goes down and they need a replacement for the stretch run. You don't think a team like Ottawa would give up a Rachunek or a team like NYI would give up a Mark Parrish to solve those problems?

And speaking of which, Parrish is currently on the block and could be had for even less than Comrie right now (if you listen to NYI media).

Rumour has it Richard Zednik is on the block.

Kristian Huselius might be running out of time in Florida.

Alexander Frolov was rumoured to be on the table for Comrie in late October/Early November.

Those guys are just some examples, there are plenty more. And imagine what might have been opened up down the pike?

Too many of you are too quick to say, 'Lowe couldn't have gotten more'. I notice this attitude often, whenever Lowe doesn't something wrong, somehow it's not his fault, there was nothing he could do. It's not his 'fault' for hiring Craig MacTavish, an inept coach - it's not his fault for giving Mike Comrie a bonus laden contract - it's not his fault that he couldn't get anything more than Marty Reasoner out of the Doug Weight deal.. but I digress.

I can understand some folks liking the value, but if last night against LA prooved anything it's that this team needs help RIGHT NOW more than down the road. And what's to say with a guy like, say, Parrish, that the help wouldn't be there down the road? Parrish isn't retiring any time soon, and he could have been a huge boon to the Oilers power play in front of the net if nothing else. Guys like Rachunek are skilled puck movers who might have been available in a couple months.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:37 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Hey Seachd

Anyways, this assumption you make is what I take issue with. He couldn't? Or you just don't think he could have?

What's to say he couldn't have gotten a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman in say, February? Maybe a teams' top line centreman goes down and they need a replacement for the stretch run. You don't think a team like Ottawa would give up a Rachunek or a team like NYI would give up a Mark Parrish to solve those problems?

And speaking of which, Parrish is currently on the block and could be had for even less than Comrie right now (if you listen to NYI media).

Rumour has it Richard Zednik is on the block.

Kristian Huselius might be running out of time in Florida.

Alexander Frolov was rumoured to be on the table for Comrie in late October/Early November.

Those guys are just some examples, there are plenty more. And imagine what might have been opened up down the pike?

Too many of you are too quick to say, 'Lowe couldn't have gotten more'. I notice this attitude often, whenever Lowe doesn't something wrong, somehow it's not his fault, there was nothing he could do. It's not his 'fault' for hiring Craig MacTavish, an inept coach - it's not his fault for giving Mike Comrie a bonus laden contract - it's not his fault that he couldn't get anything more than Marty Reasoner out of the Doug Weight deal.. but I digress.

I can understand some folks liking the value, but if last night against LA prooved anything it's that this team needs help RIGHT NOW more than down the road. And what's to say with a guy like, say, Parrish, that the help wouldn't be there down the road? Parrish isn't retiring any time soon, and he could have been a huge boon to the Oilers power play in front of the net if nothing else. Guys like Rachunek are skilled puck movers who might have been available in a couple months.
You are under the assumption that a team like the Islanders would trade for Comrie if they couldn't get a deal done with him before the trade. Clarke appears to be taking a bit of a risk on this.

Mizral, you really have to take your cranial cavity out of your anal one, and perhaps think about a couple of points that you seem to either ignore, not comprehend, or refuse to acknowledge.

1). Comrie's value would not increase as the season went on. Think about it... if you are a GM, why would you give up a young top 6 forward or young top 6 defenceman for a player who hasn't played in 6 months? It makes no sense to. Also, it's fine to sit there and say what if a team loses their number 1 centre to injury? Mizral, that has already happened several times this year, and there still wasn't enough interest in Comrie. You are also banking on the fact that the team who loses their centre would be a team that Comrie wants to sign with. As it stands now, Comrie is going to need a couple of weeks before he can play, and that time frame takes longer and longer the longer the season goes. No one is going to trade for Comrie at the deadline, because he would be useless then. The next time his value would be equal to now would be at the deadline, and maybe Lowe has a move or two in mind now that he can make with the assets he got in the Comrie deal.

2). Kevin Lowe is not concerned with right now. Lowe, like he has stated countless times, is more concerned about the future than right now. Hell, I am sure Comrie could have fetched a 32 year old who is a UFA this summer, but WTF would that do? The Oilers aren't going to win the Stanley Cup, and while the playoffs are a goal, there is no sense sacrificing your larger plan for a short term, relatively meaningless goal.

You have this irrational, pathetic, petty hatred for Lowe, and I don't understand it. You throw logic and rational thought out the door in an attempt to make your rather useless voice heard. Yeah, Lowe signed Comrie to a bonus laden contract... but he had 2 choices... sign him or let him go to a different team. Not really much of a choice there was it?

Also, your little rumours of who might, or might not be available are rather useless... why? Because Oiler fans heard the same thing about guys like Lupul, Vishnevski, etc... And once again, you are assuming that any of those teams had any interest in Comrie, and Comrie in them. I think Lowe was a little more qualified to make the trade than you are, simply because he knows what and who he had to deal with.

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Old
12-18-2003, 09:55 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
What's to say he couldn't have gotten a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman in say, February? Maybe a teams' top line centreman goes down and they need a replacement for the stretch run. You don't think a team like Ottawa would give up a Rachunek or a team like NYI would give up a Mark Parrish to solve those problems?
It's a fair question. I wouldn't have minded holding out longer either. Maybe Comrie would be more open-minded about destinations as the trade deadline gets closer... maybe some other team develops an urgent need or decides Comrie would look good in their rebuilding program. Things might have changed. As well, the Oilers could have afforded to add more salary as the trade deadline nears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
And speaking of which, Parrish is currently on the block and could be had for even less than Comrie right now (if you listen to NYI media).
Hasn't it been reported that the Isles were negotiating with Lowe but dropped out when Winter told them Comrie wouldn't sign there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Alexander Frolov was rumoured to be on the table for Comrie in late October/Early November.
I know it was rumoured Frolov's name was mentioned during discussions with the Kings... but I've got a hunch Lowe probably did all the mentioning. That discussion might have gone something like this...

Lowe: "Frolov?"
Taylor: "No."
Lowe: "Frolov?"
Taylor: "No."
Lowe: "Frolov?"
Taylor: "No."
Lowe: "Frolov?"
Taylor: "No."
Lowe: "Camma..."
Taylor: "Y..."
Lowe: "Frolov?"
Taylor: "No."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
it's not his fault that he couldn't get anything more than Marty Reasoner out of the Doug Weight deal.. but I digress.
Actually, that was Marty Reasoner and Jochen Hecht.. but I digress.

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Old
12-18-2003, 10:03 AM
  #58
The Rage
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Does Mizral know that Doug Weight was only willing to go to Detroit and St.Louis? And that Detroit didn't want him? Mizral, we don't treat Lowe as infallible, but we do understand the circumstances he is working under. If you want to criticise his moves by only looking at them in a superficial way, go ahead, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

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Old
12-18-2003, 10:05 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
It's a fair question. I wouldn't have minded holding out longer either. Maybe Comrie would be more open-minded about destinations as the trade deadline gets closer... maybe some other team develops an urgent need or decides Comrie would look good in their rebuilding program. Things might have changed. As well, the Oilers could have afforded to add more salary as the trade deadline nears.
I've thought the same, but we should keep in mind the possibility that this soap opera was becoming an increasing distraction for the team, and that having it drag on another couple of months would hurt the team more than help it.

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Old
12-18-2003, 10:38 AM
  #60
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I can say the Oilers forum is a lot more interesting with Lanny and Mizral around. Many might degree with what they are saying, but the discussion and debate is what makes this a good forum.

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Old
12-18-2003, 04:05 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
I can say the Oilers forum is a lot more interesting with Lanny and Mizral around. Many might degree with what they are saying, but the discussion and debate is what makes this a good forum.
yah, Mizral has some different viewpoints but he does have some pretty good hockey knowledge. Its just applied differently!

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