HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Rangers top 4 D or Canucks top 4

View Poll Results: Better top 4 D?
Rangers 134 74.44%
Canucks 46 25.56%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #76
Scottrockztheworld*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,301
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Garrison is letting the Nucks down. I actually like their top3 better than the Rangers (Edler > Staal easily as much as McDonagh > Hamhuis).
Maybe the people who were expecting 16 goals. I think for the transition to a new team with a COMPLETELY different system & no training camp that he has played well, especially recently.

Scottrockztheworld* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 01:20 PM
  #77
Happy Hallidays
We are the 18%
 
Happy Hallidays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,252
vCash: 500
Rangers for me.

I really like the Rangers balance and overall quality. Mcdonagh, Girardi, Edler, MDZ, Staal, and Hamhuis are all excellent Defensman I would love on my team.
Pretty close but I think Bieksa, and Garrison are a step (half a step) below the others. (Still would love either on my team)

Rangers but it's close.

Happy Hallidays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 01:43 PM
  #78
JustOneB4IDie
Everyone Overpayment
 
JustOneB4IDie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,381
vCash: 50
Easily the Rangers.

JustOneB4IDie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 01:52 PM
  #79
Kirk Mclean
The best there is...
 
Kirk Mclean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,503
vCash: 500
I'll go with the Rangers, but I don't the gap is even remotely as large as the results suggest. Very, very close.

Kirk Mclean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #80
M Gaz
Au revoir Shosanna!
 
M Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,738
vCash: 50
Clicked on the Canucks by mistake.

M Gaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #81
Affinity
Registered User
 
Affinity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toms River, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 7,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Rangers top 4 is pretty overrated. Only by creation of the perfect storm (young players, new york media, great goalie behind them) do they get this kind of recognition as top 10/Norris worthy defenseman. No where else is such a fuss made over one dimensional defensive defenseman.

Staal, Girardi, McDonut are great in their own end. No question about it. But I'm sick of hearing for years now about how Marc Staal doesnt put up points simply because he doesnt try, or how because he's young he has plenty of time to work on offense later or whatever excuse works at the moment. Same now is true for Mcdonagh. Being a black hole offensively does not make you a top 10 guy no matter how good you are defensively, all of which is debatable due to the effect of having Lundqvist in net. Girardi is probably the best combination of offense and defense, however still is primarily a shut down guy. And this myth about Del Zotto now being a shut down stud is absurd. Yes he made a huge jump defensively last year. Because if he didnt he'd have been kept in Hartford. He's still hardly reliable in his own end, but fills a prupose as he's the only defenseman on the team capable of 40-50 points a season.

Overall, The Canucks group is a better core because they can play both sides of the puck

Clearly you don't watch the Rangers. Try again buddy.

Affinity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 02:12 PM
  #82
Tanner Glass
Call me Nils
 
Tanner Glass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC
Country: Austria
Posts: 17,103
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What's hilarious is the excuses I keep reading about why Lundqvist has never done anything in the playoffs, and how Luongo's benefitted from his team and his defense, yet the Rangers top 4 is pretty easily better? Something's not adding up here...
every thread

EVERY ****ING THREAD!

we get it

__________________
Tanner Glass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 02:13 PM
  #83
Tony D63
Tortsless Rangers
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,226
vCash: 500
Rangers. Gilroy and Stralman has also played solid so far as well.

Tony D63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 02:33 PM
  #84
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,594
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Del Ziti View Post
every thread

EVERY ****ING THREAD!

we get it
What are you talking about? I'm confused by the sheer volume of Rangers fans who kept saying how bad their defense is, and now when we're comparing the Ranger defense to the Canucks defense all of a sudden it's easily better. It doesn't make sense at all.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 03:03 PM
  #85
SirPaste
Registered User
 
SirPaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 6,994
vCash: 50
Rangers for me, and thats not a knock on Van either, very good top 4

SirPaste is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 04:56 PM
  #86
DL44
Registered User
 
DL44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 5,571
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What are you talking about? I'm confused by the sheer volume of Rangers fans who kept saying how bad their defense is, and now when we're comparing the Ranger defense to the Canucks defense all of a sudden it's easily better. It doesn't make sense at all.
Maybe if the question was asked like "Which top 4 D makes life for their goaltender the easiest".. heh.

DL44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 11:29 PM
  #87
CaptainCally
Registered User
 
CaptainCally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What's hilarious is the excuses I keep reading about why Lundqvist has never done anything in the playoffs, and how Luongo's benefitted from his team and his defense, yet the Rangers top 4 is pretty easily better? Something's not adding up here...
I've read through all my comments in this thread, where did I say that? Where did I say: ''Not being a homer, but it's the Rangers''? Which post #? Haven't said that or anything close to it in this thread, can't find it either... Nice try though.


Last edited by CaptainCally: 02-19-2013 at 11:35 PM.
CaptainCally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 11:34 PM
  #88
CaptainCally
Registered User
 
CaptainCally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What are you talking about? I'm confused by the sheer volume of Rangers fans who kept saying how bad their defense is, and now when we're comparing the Ranger defense to the Canucks defense all of a sudden it's easily better. It doesn't make sense at all.

First off I never said it was easily better. Secondly Rangers has got a young core, especially at the backend. The have progressed, you know the opposite of regress.... . So yeah the D is really good now, they were good before, not as good. So Hank was left on his own. Now he gets more help, and nobody gives a ****. Keep Luongo then instead of trying to trade him if he's the new Dominik Hasek or whatever. Angry homers are always entertaining.

CaptainCally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 03:10 AM
  #89
masterson*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Affinity View Post

Clearly you don't watch the Rangers. Try again buddy.
Great. I feel like every group of teenagers gets more and more incompetent with every passing year. Apparently irrelevant pictures have become adequate substitutes for factual responses.

Any how, in response to the plethora of Ranger fanboys rushing in to defend their heroes, one thing is apparent. Cherry picking stats is still the preferred method of debate.

Bottom line, as this argument has probably run its course, Dan Girardi was a legit Norris candidate last year, finishing 5th overall. He is the only Ranger defenseman over the past several years, save Del Zotto, who has regularly been used on the powerplay. He has a good shot, and more importantly a tremendous ability to get the puck through traffic and on goal. He is consistently healthy and reliable. Everything one could ask for from a defenseman.

Re: Cherry picked stats, Yes Staal has 8 points in 15 games this year. Great. He had like 6, in 45 games last year. McDonagh has 3 points and en EN in 16 games this season. But let's use the stats that suit our homeristic case. Staal has never passed 30 points in a full season. Even reading the Rags forum, it amazing me how often fans complain about how long he takes to get a shot off, how often he misses the net, and he frequently the shots that do get off go straight into the chest of the nearest defender. Not something commonly associated with the top offensive defenseman in the league.

If we want to use, ONE season of McDonagh's offensive production as the bar, fine. MDZ put up 40 points his rookie year as well; and the next was in Hartford. I prefer to see consistency over a few seasons before crowning guys "the next one".

In reference to one previous poster, John Tortarella is not incompetent, or purposely sabotaging his team on the PP. He puts his best guys out there, and if Staal or McDonagh are not on the PP, and Girardi is, there is a reason. Until then, we may as well just use manipulated stats such as "ES points" to compare guys who are not picked to play in all situations, to guys who are.

masterson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 03:14 AM
  #90
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 40,592
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
Rangers for me, and thats not a knock on Van either, very good top 4
this is my thinking as well

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 09:41 AM
  #91
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Any how, in response to the plethora of Ranger fanboys rushing in to defend their heroes, one thing is apparent. Cherry picking stats is still the preferred method of debate.
Defending? No. We're critiquing the nonsense you posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Bottom line, as this argument has probably run its course, Dan Girardi was a legit Norris candidate last year, finishing 5th overall. He is the only Ranger defenseman over the past several years, save Del Zotto, who has regularly been used on the powerplay. He has a good shot, and more importantly a tremendous ability to get the puck through traffic and on goal. He is consistently healthy and reliable. Everything one could ask for from a defenseman.
Girardi has a terrible shot, actually. Love him, but he has no slap shot, and his wristers have absolutely no velocity on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Re: Cherry picked stats, Yes Staal has 8 points in 15 games this year. Great. He had like 6, in 45 games last year. McDonagh has 3 points and en EN in 16 games this season. But let's use the stats that suit our homeristic case. Staal has never passed 30 points in a full season. Even reading the Rags forum, it amazing me how often fans complain about how long he takes to get a shot off, how often he misses the net, and he frequently the shots that do get off go straight into the chest of the nearest defender. Not something commonly associated with the top offensive defenseman in the league.
6 in 45 games last season while recovering from a concussion, which you cleverly left out, probably on purpose to justify your failed opinion which is so far from the truth, one has to wonder what your motives are in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
If we want to use, ONE season of McDonagh's offensive production as the bar, fine. MDZ put up 40 points his rookie year as well; and the next was in Hartford. I prefer to see consistency over a few seasons before crowning guys "the next one".
MDZ didn't spend his entire sophomore season in Hartford.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
In reference to one previous poster, John Tortarella is not incompetent, or purposely sabotaging his team on the PP. He puts his best guys out there, and if Staal or McDonagh are not on the PP, and Girardi is, there is a reason. Until then, we may as well just use manipulated stats such as "ES points" to compare guys who are not picked to play in all situations, to guys who are.
Fact is, Girardi, despite how valuable he's been for us, is far from our best two-way dmen.

He doesn't have the vision, passing ability, or shooting ability that Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto, and Stralman possess. This is not debateable. This is a fact to anyone's who's ever watched more than a handful of Rangers games.

People like myself, who's watched almost every single game of Girardi's games in his career, are trying to correct the asinine statement you made.

Instead of just saying, Hey, I thought I knew more about the Rangers dmen than I really do, my bad, you're sitting here trying to argue the obvious. You're wrong. 1000% wrong and there isn't any stat, quote, or proof you can provide me that'll suggest otherwise.

Why is that, you ask?

Because I know a hell of a lot more about the players on my team, than you do. I watch all their games. I see them consistently. You're not fooling anyone with your assumptions. The only one you're fooling, is yourself.

Stop trying to defend a statement that's miles from the truth. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper, and really making me question what you are watching if you truly believe in the nonsense you posted.

Offense:
MDZ
McDonagh
Stralman
Staal
Girardi

Defense:
Staal
McDonagh
Girardi
MDZ
Stralman

Overall:
Staal/McDonagh
Girardi
MDZ
Stralman

Derp.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 10:34 AM
  #92
masterson*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Defending? No. We're critiquing the nonsense you posted.



Girardi has a terrible shot, actually. Love him, but he has no slap shot, and his wristers have absolutely no velocity on them.



6 in 45 games last season while recovering from a concussion, which you cleverly left out, probably on purpose to justify your failed opinion which is so far from the truth, one has to wonder what your motives are in this thread.



MDZ didn't spend his entire sophomore season in Hartford.



Fact is, Girardi, despite how valuable he's been for us, is far from our best two-way dmen.

He doesn't have the vision, passing ability, or shooting ability that Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto, and Stralman possess. This is not debateable. This is a fact to anyone's who's ever watched more than a handful of Rangers games.

People like myself, who's watched almost every single game of Girardi's games in his career, are trying to correct the asinine statement you made.

Instead of just saying, Hey, I thought I knew more about the Rangers dmen than I really do, my bad, you're sitting here trying to argue the obvious. You're wrong. 1000% wrong and there isn't any stat, quote, or proof you can provide me that'll suggest otherwise.

Why is that, you ask?

Because I know a hell of a lot more about the players on my team, than you do. I watch all their games. I see them consistently. You're not fooling anyone with your assumptions. The only one you're fooling, is yourself.

Stop trying to defend a statement that's miles from the truth. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper, and really making me question what you are watching if you truly believe in the nonsense you posted.

Offense:
MDZ
McDonagh
Stralman
Staal
Girardi

Defense:
Staal
McDonagh
Girardi
MDZ
Stralman

Overall:
Staal/McDonagh
Girardi
MDZ
Stralman

Derp.
Again, piece by piece, you build your case. Good for you. There's always an excuse why Staal isn't more productive offensively. While I'm sure the concussion didn't help, he was medically cleared to play. I never stated Del Zotto spent the entire year in Hartford, again, take what fits your argument. All in all, I suppose you are right. You watch the game, and selectively tout stats. I guess you know better than the Norris trophy voters, and John Tortarella, whom regularly goes to Girardi on the PP over Staal or McDonagh. But whatever. You know better. Who am I or anyone else to suggest otherwise.

masterson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 11:40 AM
  #93
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterson View Post
Again, piece by piece, you build your case. Good for you. There's always an excuse why Staal isn't more productive offensively. While I'm sure the concussion didn't help, he was medically cleared to play. I never stated Del Zotto spent the entire year in Hartford, again, take what fits your argument. All in all, I suppose you are right. You watch the game, and selectively tout stats. I guess you know better than the Norris trophy voters, and John Tortarella, whom regularly goes to Girardi on the PP over Staal or McDonagh. But whatever. You know better. Who am I or anyone else to suggest otherwise.
Staal and McDonagh are LD. Girardi's a RD. That plays a HUGE role in how Torts selects his PP personnel.

And if you don't think a concussion is a valid excuse for Staal's play when he returned last season, I don't know what what to tell you. Players can be medically cleared to play, and be rusty. Staal missed training camp. He missed the early games of the year. He wasn't himself when he returned. It wasn't until the playoffs when we saw the Staal we're accustomed too.

Still, as far as two-way defending goes, it's Staal/McDonagh, then Girardi.

Trying to convince me otherwise is only proving you don't know as much as you're claiming you do. Just stop. McDonagh and Staal are superior to Girardi offensively, and defensively. Fact.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.